Almost OT - Remember the "lead in deer meat" "

[Old Ironsights]

Dr. William Cornatzer is a dermatologist, not an epidemiologist. Plus, he is on the board of The Peregrine Fund, an Idaho-based non-profit dedicated to raptor conservation that has lobbied hard to ban lead from condor country. The group is holding a conference in May entitled “Ingestion of Spent Lead Ammunition: Implications for Wildlife and Humansâ€

[Jason_W]

Barnes business is going to boom in the next few years. Of course, most of us can only afford one box a year of that stuff.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Thanks for following up on that post OI. It didn't make sense to me back when I heard it.

[Comal Forge]

Several commercial steels have lead added for machineability (12L14 comes to mind) and are common in all types of products. I know for a fact that oils which run across these steels will pick up lead so it would not surprise me that meat would also show traces.

[Jason_W]

This definitely warrants further research before the non-hunting public starts freaking out (more than they already do). It's sort of like the mercury warnings in fish. When the biologists do their tests, they grind up the entire fish, liver and all. When an actual fillet is tested, the mercury levels are substantially lower.

What bugs me about the condors eating lead in gut piles is, don't most big game bullets pass through the animal and end up in the landscape? Also, is it really all that good for a condor to swallow the jagged chunk of copper that is an expanded Barnes bullet?

[Scott64A]

Look no further than industry in North America and even China, blowing its poisonous crud our way over the pacific.

I would bet most all contamination comes from factories here and abroad, ESPECIALLY from Mexico and China.

[Jaguarundi]

"Well, what do you know. An ARF. Just like I suspected"+1 I suspected also..now we know the rest of the story.Thanks for posting Old Ironsights.

[Warhawk]

I was at Cabelas in Ft Worth the other day, in the gun dept a video advertisement was playing. It was an ad for Barnes bullets, and the ad was spouting BS about "millions of toxic microscopic lead particles" in the meat of a big game animal shot with a lead core bullet.

It seems that barnes has joined the loonies and jumped on the lead free bullet band wagon.

VERY disappointing.

[Hobie]

I was at Cabelas in Ft Worth the other day, in the gun dept a video advertisement was playing. It was an ad for Barnes bullets, and the ad was spouting BS about "millions of toxic microscopic lead particles" in the meat of a big game animal shot with a lead core bullet.

It seems that barnes has joined the loonies and jumped on the lead free bullet band wagon.

VERY disappointing.

IFF you could post a link to this ad (say on YouTube) I'd be willing to boycott Barnes (even for my beloved 255 gr. Originals for the .38-55). That is simply unacceptable.

[oldmax]

Another Manufactrer on my " NO BUY " List.....

[Old Ironsights]

Agreed. Sounds a lot like the same BS by the company that patented microstamping pushing microstamping legislation...

I'll invest in a lathe and turn my own monolithic brass bullets first.

[Jason_W]

I really think this needs more research by unbiased scientists, not just some dermatologist with too much free time.

Maybe this time test some meat cut by people who process their own game.

[oldgerboy]

I'm with Hobie. I like those bullets but with something I could download to show friends it would be a cold day somewhere before I bought any more.

[AJMD429]

I'm with Hobie. I like those bullets but with something I could download to show friends it would be a cold day somewhere before I bought any more.

I agree...

[Jaguarundi]

I'm with Hobie. I like those bullets but with something I could download to show friends it would be a cold day somewhere before I bought any more.

I agree...

+1 !

[handirifle]

I'd love to join you, but if I do I have to quit hunting, they're all we can use now.

[handirifle]

Here's what I posted on the barnes website blog.

"Well I read your (Barnes’) statement about how they stood up for the hunters, but now you are running video ads in Cabaelas that seem to contradict what your statement says. NOW you’re sounding just like them, telling us how much lead is left in the meat.

Here’s a thread about it, and some customes you’re losing.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 2379#72379

This whole thing really makes me sad and sick."

You guys need to let them know you don't like their video.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/blog/2008/ ... omment-600

[ladytech]

Guys, I got the message about the video ad playing in Cabela's. I'm not aware of anything we've put out there that talks about "millions of toxic microscopic lead particles" being left by lead-core bullets. In fact, we called Cabela's to ask them about it, and they said the only Barnes video they're playing is our "Bullet Myths Busted" DVD, which says no such thing.

For the record, this whole thing makes me, and the rest of us here, sad and sick, too. I'm here to tell you that if ANYONE was going to be affected by the ingestion of lead, it would be myself and my little sis. We stuffed lead cores into copper jackets from the time we were three years old. At that age, you KNOW our hands were going into our mouths. No deformities or extra extremities can be found on any Brooks kids or grandkids to date.

Barnes is getting a pretty bad rap for this mess. But we're just doing what we've been doing since the mid-80s. Our copper bullets were designed for performance reasons, NOT legislation, and we're darn proud of the Original lead-cored bullets that Fred Barnes built this company on. We realize all-copper bullets don't work for everyone and we think people should have a choice. Plus, cup and core bullets are cheaper, and THAT keeps people shooting. Bullet bans are bad for business. The only win there is for the anti's. -Jessica Brooks

[JReed]

Thanks for the reply Ladytech. It didnt make sence to me that Barnes would advocate no lead since you all make an excellent lead core bullet.

[KirkD]

Boys, Barnes is not the enemy and you'd better make sure of your facts before you say anything unkind about them. The enemy is people like Cornatzer who is scamming people with bogus 'studies' that are faked, adjusted, manipulated and fudged to serve his agenda. The NRA needs to take this very, very seriously and get on the case, right now, big time. They need to expose this junk science. Normally in science, if someone publishes faked results, they are finished in the scientific world. It is time to expose this fakery.

[Old Ironsights]

Thank you for the clarification Ladytech.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

+1 to what Kirk said.

[ladytech]

Thanks guys. BTW, y'all can get a copy of the "Bullet Myths" DVD fer free if you want to check it out. Call 1-800-574-9200 or send a message with your name & address to email@barnesbullets.com to request one. We'll ship one out pronto. -J

[Old Ironsights]

Thanks guys. BTW, y'all can get a copy of the "Bullet Myths" DVD fer free if you want to check it out. Call 1-800-574-9200 or send a message with your name & address to email@barnesbullets.com to request one. We'll ship one out pronto. -J

I already have one - and I watched it again when this came up. It's a good piece.

Sorry I jumped to conclusions over a report of what someone thought they saw.

But considering how the microstamping companies acted... I'm a little "gunshy".

Now, in other areas... if'n you'd sell your 140 gr .357s in more than 20bullet boxes at less than .50/ea I might load some up...

[YellowHorse]

All this hoopla about copper bullets being safe is garbage, if the condors dine on carion full of copper they are not any healthier for it.

Following excerpt taken from http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/TOXIC%20METALS.htm

...note that minerals needed in lesser quantities are usually toxic in greater amounts. Examples are copper, iron, manganese, selenium and vanadium. Even calcium and sodium are quite toxic in excess.

If an animal the size of a condor ingested the amount of copper found in one .30 caliber bullet, that animal, in therory, would aquire copper toxicity syptoms.

[KirkD]

All this hoopla about copper bullets being safe is garbage, if the condors dine on carion full of copper they are not any healthier for it.

Dadgummit, don't say stuff like that on the internet! Next thing you know, we'll be reduced to carving our own bullets out of oak dowling!

[Old Ironsights]

All this hoopla about copper bullets being safe is garbage, if the condors dine on carion full of copper they are not any healthier for it.

Dadgummit, don't say stuff like that on the internet! Next thing you know, we'll be reduced to carving our own bullets out of oak dowling!

Ironwood is better...

[ladytech]

We pulled out a copy of our old DVD "Choosing The Right Bullet" that contains a statement somewhat close to what Warhawk said he heard:

“Another great thing about the Triple-Shock is that it stays intact. It retains 100% of its original weight, so there’s no bullet residue spraying through the meat. Lead core bullets break up inside the animal contaminating venison with hundreds of lead and copper particles.â€

[Gryphon Black]

I hope you guys all learned your lesson!

QUESTION YOUR SOURCES!

You can do a lot of damage to people who don't necessarily deserve it. And anyway, that's how mobs are formed. Pitchfork mobs are ugly, dangerous, and destructive.
Thankfully we heard from Ladytech before this got out of hand.

Now go play nice, kids...

Gryphon

[Old Ironsights]

...Anyway, just wanted to put this out there so you guys would know we're not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I hope I've made Barnes' position clear on this issue. -J

I, for one, appreciate having any industry insiders participating on the forums.

I can't think of a better R&D and/or resource for a marketing program.

I wonder how many folks ATK/Marlin/Remington/etc have out there on the boards?

I hope you stick around.

[CowboyTutt]

Guys, I've met this lady at the last SHOT SHOW. She made a very good impression, and I think she can be trusted that everything she is saying is the truth. Any gal who shoots varmints with a 416 Rem Mag is OK in my book!

-Tutt

[Jaguarundi]

Thank you for the clarification Ladytech.

+1 also thank you !

[scr83jp]

While attending a CA Deer Assoc Banquet I met their new coordinator .We discussed the condor lead ban , condors have to land in large cleared areas so they can run to get airborne, they don't venture into forested areas for gut piles,they don't eat small game,in the coastal condor zone pigs are shot in brushy timbered areas inaccessible to condors & not that many deer are taken in the A zone .He said the dept doesn't know where the lead is coming from but that didn't stop the rino governor or the f&g commission who ignored hunters,nra & crpa instead chose to listen to those against lead bullets banning all lead bullets.Az listened to the CA banner groups but chose to remain with the voluntary program which is viably working in AZ.CA never tried the voluntary lead free program & enlarged the lead free zone outside of the condor flight zone.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

[quote="ladytech"]We pulled out a copy of our old DVD "Choosing The Right Bullet" that contains a statement somewhat close to what Warhawk said he heard:

“Another great thing about the Triple-Shock is that it stays intact. It retains 100% of its original weight, so there’s no bullet residue spraying through the meat. Lead core bullets break up inside the animal contaminating venison with hundreds of lead and copper particles.â€

[Bitmap]

All this hoopla about copper bullets being safe is garbage, if the condors dine on carion full of copper they are not any healthier for it.

Dadgummit, don't say stuff like that on the internet! Next thing you know, we'll be reduced to carving our own bullets out of oak dowling!

Then the stupid birds would get splinters. We can't have that.

We'll be reduced to rocks before this is over.

[Gryphon Black]

Or mebbe bean bag loads out of our shotguns!
"Jest give 'em a wollup, there, knock 'em fer a loop!"

Hey, at least there's no lead in the meat! No meat to take home either, if you can't get in that close, but hey, it's a sporting chance, right?