Bighorn Armory Model 89 - 500 S&W Levergun Arrived

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:09 pm

Just came today.

Big Horn Box.jpg

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:31 pm

I will be looking forward to it. It sounds like fun. I need to get to the range and try out my new (to me) Birthday Present.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:16 pm

Doc AJ, Best have a chiropractor and an orthopedic surgeon on retainer. That thing's gonna stomp the snot outta you.

I'll also be waiting for the range report. Oh and set your video camera up on a tri-pod so we can watch it stomp ya.

Joe

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:44 pm

I have been looking forward to this myself, vicariously.

I'm thrilled you finally got it. Can't wait for the report!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:52 pm

Awaiting with bated breath....

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:00 pm

Blaine, are you eating sardines again?

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:40 pm

Tease

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:12 pm

Shot it twice this evening. First was a MagTech 'reduced recoil' 325 gr load and felt about like my Marlin 44 Mag 1894 with 240 grain factory loads. Second a Cor-Bon 275 gr claiming 1665 fps/1688 ftlb, that felt barely any hotter. I have Hornady 350 gr @ 1900 fps (all handgun claims I assume) I just found and will shoot if I get a chance tomorrow. I want to do it when I have time to set targets AND chronograph up though.

As far as recoil, I wasn't bothered by the Hornady loads in a Handi-rifle so I guess I am scrawny enough recoil just moves me instead of hurting.

Here are their claimed 'rifle' ballistics - Model 89 Factory Load Ballistics

They claim 1422 fps from the 325 gr MagTech loads, 2085 fps from the 275 gr Cor-Bon loads, and 2133 from the 350 gr Hornady loads. I also got some Buffalo Bore 400 grain ones that they claim 2003 fps from (3563 ftlbs...!) - now THOSE I'm thinking are serious loads.

Here it is next to my other 'short but powerful' leverguns and the other 500 S&W I have...

Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun - 500 S&W Hand-Rifle - BigHorn 89 - Rossi 454 Casull (16")

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:55 pm

Wiry, that's wiry.

Just finished relicensing seminar. Video flouroscopy of cervical spines with "motion anomalies". Hope that is not a harbinger.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:14 pm

It was rainy (which not only impedes the use of a chronograph, but trashes our satellite internet), but we managed to get a few minutes at the range.

First, we did video the 'recoil'. The one with me shooting was filmed by my daughter, and she 'kept the film rolling' as I walked to the 100 yard range to inspect the gong that I shot down, so it is 180 Megabytes or something, but the one I filmed of her was brief and short enough our internet allowed 'upload', so it is what I posted. She's cuter than me anyway (there's a high bar to clear, eh...

), plus far more petite. She said the only issue was that her hearing protectors got bumped off her ear, but recoil was "no big deal". This from a kid who was timid enough of a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag to prefer one in 357 Mag just a couple years ago.

Shooting the Spike Driver Carbine (click the picture):

So - recoil is just NOT a big deal with the Spike Driver. If you don't mind shooting a Marlin Guide Gun, you won't mind shooting the 500 S&W from the Spike Driver.

I'll try to link to a bunch of pictures, if the internet and my wife's Honey-Do list allows it.

Loads I've shot:

MagTech Light load 325 grain SJSP
Buffalo Bore 400 grain SJFN
Hornady 350 grain XTP
Federal 325 grain A-frame
CorBon 275 grain DPX

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:46 pm

I saw the 1st post... and my 1st thought was... ain't they "cheeky", just sending a box! And you to be so excited over it? Box looks a lil' short... did it come assembled?

Ok, yes... I am just the teeniest bit jealous.

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:00 pm

LOL well I am a whole lot jealous! But I think we all understand what's meant!

The wood looks great, as does the rest of that Lever. Congrats on that and Wow! I know which website I'm going to drool over next.

Very nice and Congrats. I've been thinking of one of those since first reading about them here.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:33 pm

That's going to be quite the SlammerHammer.......

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:10 pm

Looks like a keeper to me. I wonder about the pressures on the bb 440gr load, on all those posted loads actually.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:59 pm

Very jealous.......have fun and congrats on a fine gun

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:05 pm

Griff wrote:I saw the 1st post... and my 1st thought was... ain't they "cheeky", just sending a box! And you to be so excited over it? Box looks a lil' short... did it come assembled?

It was a big ol' fat box, for sure. Look how it was 'suspended' inside.

Big Horn Box - inside small.jpg

Grizz wrote:Looks like a keeper to me. I wonder about the pressures on the bb 440gr load, on all those posted loads actually.

I am going to have to trust the designer/builder that they took all that into account; the Buffalo Bore loads are specifically listed as 'acceptable' in the gun. I'm certainly more comfortable firing them in this design than the stout-but-not-quite-Ruger-level loads they sell for use in the Marlin Guide Gun, even though I'm well aware the latter are lower pressure.

What amazes me is how these high-pressure rounds like 500 S&W, 460 S&W, & 454 Casull can be fired in revolvers. All those big holes in that cylinder don't leave much steel around the cartridge.

Actually, if I find a 500 grain or so gas-check hard-cast bullet that feeds reliably, I plan to just load to around 1200-1400 fps; no real need for more velocity that I can see with a meplat that size. It seems like that's the optimum range for penetration most of the time anyway.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:29 pm

Make sure your Daughter's dates see that video. It should make them think very long before they try anything.

harry · Post by **harry** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:06 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Griff wrote:I saw the 1st post... and my 1st thought was... ain't they "cheeky", just sending a box! And you to be so excited over it? Box looks a lil' short... did it come assembled?
It was a big ol' fat box, for sure. Look how it was 'suspended' inside.
Big Horn Box - inside small.jpg

Grizz wrote:Looks like a keeper to me. I wonder about the pressures on the bb 440gr load, on all those posted loads actually.
I am going to have to trust the designer/builder that they took all that into account; the Buffalo Bore loads are specifically listed as 'acceptable' in the gun. I'm certainly more comfortable firing them in this design than the stout-but-not-quite-Ruger-level loads they sell for use in the Marlin Guide Gun, even though I'm well aware the latter are lower pressure.

What amazes me is how these high-pressure rounds like 500 S&W, 460 S&W, & 454 Casull can be fired in revolvers. All those big holes in that cylinder don't leave much steel around the cartridge.

Actually, if I find a 500 grain or so gas-check hard-cast bullet that feeds reliably, I plan to just load to around 1200-1400 fps; no real need for more velocity that I can see with a meplat that size. It seems like that's the optimum range for penetration most of the time anyway.

I have used the 630gr and 700 gr (I don't think they make the 630 Hollow point any more) from Matts Bullets. These are Ranger Rick design, I load the 700gr to 1300 fps and there is some recoil to those. Matt does not usually stock many bullets and lead time can be over a month.
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?m ... x&cPath=66

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:37 am

A post of substance! I'd sure like to play with that. First thing, I'd order me up a gas check mould, dies, brass, and get that to shoot a 300 gr about 1200-1400 for all day shooting.

Doc,
Can I have it? I'll trade you your Remington Model 25 for it.

6

86er · Post by **86er** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:45 am

Good looking rifle with a variety of loads that each fill a niche.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:46 am

Very nice indeed

Will be interested in your load development.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:32 am

Oh yeah I am sure about the gun handling the pressure. I was interested in knowing if, for a given velocity, the heavies are lower pressure than a 45/70 at equal throw-weight and velocities. should at least be less thrust on the bolt face.

I shot 325gr cast from a sbh for years and kept the velocity low to keep the pressure low. I think the SW should get much higher velocity at its working pressure... still learning about those trade-offs.

your 89 does look like a gun that begs to go out and shoot it . . .

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:26 am

That's a beautiful rifle. Hope it shoots as good as it looks.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:32 am

7.62 Precision wrote:
I'm thrilled you finally got it.

+1,718

Me likey - AJ, yours is the first report I've seen of somebody actually receiving one, and a heretofore unknown (to me) blued version (ILO stainless).

I further like their adaption of a standard Remington-style rear bbl open sight, via adding that aperture slider, to mount/make it into a bolt peep - kewl.........

.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 am

Very nicely built rifle in a useful caliber. Really looking forward to seeing velocity and accuracy results. If she were mine, I'd probably get around to putting up some black powder loads, channeling the .50-70 Gummint.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:44 pm

Pete44ru wrote:AJ, yours is the first report I've seen of somebody actually receiving one, and a heretofore unknown (to me) blued version (ILO stainless).

Actually, it IS 'stainless steel' - it has a 'nitride' finish of some sort, evidently kind of like Glocks...???

They also make matte stainless ones, and they do look real good with the honey-colored Maple stocks...

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:58 pm

Very impressive Sir.

Cant help think how Elmer would of loved to get his hands on this round!

N.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:58 pm

Very purdy 'lookin indeed.

The wood looks like burled walnut furniture. Enjoy!

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:36 pm

Doc, how's the action? The prototypes my friends got to shoot were pretty rough at first. Hoping they smoothed them out. I heard that Frank who used to also own Mt. Baldy Bullets is no longer with Big Horn either. -Tutt

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:12 pm

Very nice Doc. Have you decided what tasty animal is gonna be on the receiving end? I'm guessing some kind of "dream hunt" is in your future. A fancy gun like that deserves to travel.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:17 pm

How SWEET is that??? I figured the recoil thing was way over blown. After all it is a working gun not a plinker.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:40 pm

Hey Doc, I found this picture of Frank (on the right) and the prototype at NRA Whittington Center. I have to admit, I am envious of you too.

If they ever make one in 460 I would be interested but I'm not certain even the Model 89 action can handle that cartridge. They didn't seem too interested in doing that at the time.

Regarding the super-heavyweight bullets in 600 and 700 grains I'm not sure what your twist rate would support. It would be worth checking into beforehand I think.

-Tutt

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:52 pm

SAAMI pressure limits for the .500 S&W are 60,000 psi.. Factory loads and most handloading data are usually held to the 50,000 psi range, for reliable extraction in DA revolvers.. BHA rifles weigh enough to ameliorate much of the recoil, and the stock dimensions are also a help..

It seems to me that loading ammo for this rifle, to low .50 AE specs is ridiculous.. the same phenomenon occurred with the proliferation of .454 revolvers.. Lots of guys were crafting loads that approximated .45 Colt factory specs, but proceeded to brag that they were "shooting a .454 Casull.."

I never hear of shooters loading their .300 whatever Magnum rifles to .30-30 specs..

The purpose of higher initial velocity is to flatten trajectory, making hits at longer or unknown ranges a bit easier.. A 700grain slug at speeds listed above will have a trajectory resembling that of a hand-flung bowling ball..

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:10 pm

ameliorate

My new word for the day.....

RE: Hand flung bowling balls. Wouldn't they be useful for close in grizz protection? (I'm askin', not tellin')

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:13 pm

Thanks Buck! The max pressure for the 500 is higher than I thought, but the 460 still beats it by 5000 psi

A 700grain slug at speeds listed above will have a trajectory resembling that of a hand-flung bowling ball..

LOL! Well, I guess he can always get a 6 inch staff tang sight.....

-Tutt

P.S. I'm pretty sure the other gentleman in the photo is Kelyie S. from Belt Mountain IIRC. The cartridge he is holding is using one of his Punch Bullets.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:18 pm

a trajectory resembling that of a hand-flung bowling ball

true-dat, but it is worth noting that a mortar crew can get pretty specific with location, and the buff hunters whacked 'em pretty far out there with similar trajectories.... and I would hate getting whacked by a falling bowling ball too..

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:22 pm

CowboyTutt wrote:Doc, how's the action? The prototypes my friends got to shoot were pretty rough at first. Hoping they smoothed them out. I heard that Frank who used to also own Mt. Baldy Bullets is no longer with Big Horn either. -Tutt

It reminds me of the (only) Winchester 94 I have - a Big Bore in 375. A bit 'clunky' and although lockup is tight, with the lever down it is 'loose' like that design seems to be, vs. the Marlins I am used to.

I don't know about Frank, but I do know that whenever inventors, engineers, innovators, and investors start up new businesses, lots of 'personality' comes out, likely inherent in their various talents, so I'm not surprised when people come and go and so on.

1894 · Post by **1894** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:51 pm

A beautiful rifle . The fit , finish , wood , metal , all look great

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:57 pm

looks like a very fine gun Doc. take the 500 & enjoy the fruits of your labor!!!!!

ollogger

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:33 pm

Grizz wrote:
a trajectory resembling that of a hand-flung bowling ball
true-dat, but it is worth noting that a mortar crew can get pretty specific with location, and the buff hunters whacked 'em pretty far out there with similar trajectories.... and I would hate getting whacked by a falling bowling ball too..

RE Hand Flung Bowling Balls...

4 words: Billy, Dixon, Adobe, Walls.

Still, far from being wimpy, I used to load my FA Casull with some ridiculous load - IIRC it was a 350gr LBT in front of 31gr H110/296 or thereabouts... (been years and my notebook is buried in my reloading stuff)

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:55 pm

Doc, not that it is what you intended or have a use for, but you could surely load that rifle up with a @ 500 grain bullet and some form of iron sights and "shoot for the moon" distance-wise with that rifle. It is one of the nicest leverguns on the entire planet right now and you are a fortunate man to own one! Judging from your posts on this thread, you have extremely good taste in leverguns overall I might add.

A "little birdie" told me that even my 43 Mauser with its custom 485 grain load at a muzzle velocity of @ 1150 fps still arrives at 1538 yards with the same velocity of a good ol' 45 Colt. Not too shabby for a 125 year old rifle.

Now YOUR rifle in 500 S&W, well now, there is not much it can't do decently with the proper sights. Maybe not true competition material, but still darn capable!

Dang, I may have just talked myself into one over the 460. Hmmmm.

Keep us posted Doc!

I look forward to many more range reports!

-Tutt

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:51 pm

FWIW, the .460 limits out at 65,000 psi -- the same as the .454 Casull.. Difference is, that again, .460 factory loads and most loading data quit at about 55,000 psi, for the same reason as the .500.. DA revolver extraction gets a bit sticky beyond that pressure.. The .454 was designed for SA guns, and works well, even at full "allowable" pressure..

In a strong levergun, bothe the big S&W rounds can be pushed at full pressure with no repercussions..

ArcticGoose · Post by **ArcticGoose** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 am

Now that is an interesting rifle. Looking forward to further range reports. I'm not ready to give up my 50-110, but enjoy hearing about a new levergun.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:01 am

Doc AJ, your new toy would probably be just fine for hunting bears on the coasts of Alaska. It sure sounds fun to me.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:11 pm

Difference is, that again, .460 factory loads and most loading data quit at about 55,000 psi, for the same reason as the .500.. DA revolver extraction gets a bit sticky beyond that pressure.. The .454 was designed for SA guns, and works well, even at full "allowable" pressure..

Buck, your my friend, but I don't understand why the difference in extraction between a "double action" and "single action" revolver? Granted the Freedom Arms revolvers are legendary for tolerating heavy 454 Casull loads but I have always attributed that to a stronger and better made cylinder?

I have a 454 Raging Bull and a S&W 460 ES "snubbie" and as long as I have had the chambers polished there have been at worst, minimal problems with extraction even with handloads from various manuals. The S&W came that way and is my favorite hand gun.

If you could elaborate some, I would be interested in knowing more about why the action results in sticky extraction and why its not related to the cylinder metallurgy and dimensions? Dick Casull is a pretty smart guy to say the least! And so are you!

I will always remember having the pleasure of shooting your P001 levergun. It really was a very accurate and easy to shoot rifle.

Regards my friend,

-Tutt

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:38 pm

Perhaps just a matter of personal preference, BUT...

SA's handle higher pressures/recoil better because, unlike DAs, the grip can actually rotate in one's hand without smashing/tearing out the web between the thumb & forefinger.

The "hump" on a DA gun is what makes high-recoil loads brutal, not the recoil itself.

My FA was a joy to shoot with 2200fpe MaxiWhompum loads, while my DA guns bit me horribly with OEM fodder...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:37 pm

CowboyTutt wrote:I will always remember having the pleasure of shooting your P001 levergun. It really was a very accurate and easy to shoot rifle.

I keep hearing tangentially about that gun, so . . . where can I find out more about it. . . ???

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:43 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:Perhaps just a matter of personal preference, BUT...
SA's handle higher pressures/recoil better because, unlike DAs, the grip can actually rotate in one's hand without smashing/tearing out the web between the thumb & forefinger.
The "hump" on a DA gun is what makes high-recoil loads brutal, not the recoil itself.
My FA was a joy to shoot with 2200fpe MaxiWhompum loads, while my DA guns bit me horribly with OEM fodder...

And the SA revolvers just handle and balance nicer. When that grip frame shape was developed, concern was for Cavalry troopers firing one-handed from the back or a horse. Balance and pointability were important considerations.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:56 pm

As long as we are showing off 500 S&W's, here is mine that I just got in from the gunsmith a few weeks ago. Its got a lever on it!!!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:33 am

Old Ironsights wrote:Perhaps just a matter of personal preference, BUT...

SA's handle higher pressures/recoil better because, unlike DAs, the grip can actually rotate in one's hand without smashing/tearing out the web between the thumb & forefinger.

The "hump" on a DA gun is what makes high-recoil loads brutal, not the recoil itself.

My FA was a joy to shoot with 2200fpe MaxiWhompum loads, while my DA guns bit me horribly with OEM fodder...

I've shot the S&W X-Frame 500 with full house......Stout, but not as stout as a BFR with Garrette +P 45-70s