Is Your Church Posted As A Gun Free Zone?

[Grizz]

7.62

I appreciate the balance part, and the distinction between violent men and defenders against violent men. The lessons from Joshua were the ones that prompted me to be prepared. Not desiring to make war, but desiring not to be unprepared.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty toward God....."

The weapons of our defense however, must necessarily be carnal to protect and defend our loved ones.

Believers should be involved in spiritual warfare, which consists of combating the realm of liar demons who are deceiving the people and denying the Truth. The weapons of that warfare are specified, and resemble roman battle regalia. We do not convert with sword, by beheading and terrorizing. That's satan's domain. We overcome the lie by "our testimony and the blood of the Lamb". By acting in the light of Christ's Love toward all men, and by maintaining a good conscience toward God by NOT allowing ourselves to be in the darkness of this world-system.

There are probably many even now reading the thread who think that we obtain a right standing before God by things that we do, not knowing that this is impossible. That the ones who obtain a right standing before God obtain it as a free, undeserved, unmerited gift when we transfer our trust to the person and work of Jesus Christ.

It all comes down to this, the spiritual war is resolved in humans by simply BELIEVING GOD, and not trusting ourselves to make ourselves right with Him.

Not believing God is believing the lie, which is rejecting Christ, His Truth, His Love, His Kingdom and staying on the side of lying deception. Forever.

The crux of the gospel that God uses to give us right-standing with him is this:

Christ died on a cross becoming and bearing the sins of all mankind for all time. Being God, He paid the infinite price. He was buried. And He rose from the grave and lived among His followers for 40 days. Then He ascended into the sky visibly in the presence of hundreds of witnesses, the spiritual ancestors of every believer and follower of Christ.

This is a certified fact that has a built-in supernatural proof. More than 300 predictions dating from 4000 some years ago to about 2500 years ago spoke specifically about Christ, where he would be born, what he would do on earth, and how he would die. The probability that this many predictions would be fulfilled in one person, hundreds of years later, is about 1x10^168, or 1 followed by 168 zeros. This number is so big that it is way outside of our number system. For example, the total number of sub-atomic particles in the known universe is 1x10^80, or 1 followed by 80 zeros.

This is the precision with which God certified the truth to humanity, so we can KNOW. So we CAN believe and trust Him. It is impossible for God to lie.

This is the probability that an unbeliever or God denier has to embrace, 1 chance in 10 to the 168th power, that he is right and God is wrong, or doesn't exist at all.

The impossible odds are all stacked on the side of the believer in Christ, Truth, and the eternal Life Created by Christ, the maker and creator of everything.

I am addressing this to the lurkers who aren't posting. You need to know the truth to believe the truth, and this is God's Truth. The Bible says that "Christ came to save sinners".

I'm one of the ones He saved, and am eternally grateful for the great love he has for us.

A note for the folks who hate being reminded of this or schooled in truth, I am adding my signature, which is a quote from Paco's website that explains the purpose of the forum. I offer my witness of God's Truth and Christ's Blood in this Spirit.

[Catshooter]

Mt. 5:39

Thought of being armed a Christian church is despicable.

I'll go along with the thought of having to be armed in church is despicable.

That some would bring violence into God's house is despicable.

Being armed to stop the violence that can and does happen anywhere at any time without warning? In my world that's being responsible. Having some honor. A man's duty even.


Cat

[firefuzz]

Mt. 5:39

Thought of being armed a Christian church is despicable.

I'll go along with the thought of having to be armed in church is despicable.

That some would bring violence into God's house is despicable.

Being armed to stop the violence that can and does happen anywhere at any time without warning? In my world that's being responsible. Having some honor. A man's duty even.


Cat

I like this. Thanks for the post 7.62 and Grizz. If you haven't seen this it's an interesting watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joYbJ7pS9rc

Many churches in my area now have CCW members acting as "guardians of the flock" so to speak. I've carried a gun for 35 plus years, but never in a church unless is was a formal LE wedding or funeral, always left it in the locked vehicle.....until about 6 or 7 years ago. Now it's under the jacket or in my pocket. Ushers at the door wearing earpieces are not that uncommon any more either.

Rob

[Grizz]

Thanks for posting that video Rob. Love to hear the story, it never gets old.

[cshold]

Thanks for posting that video Rob. Love to hear the story, it never gets old.

+1 and thanks to all of you that contributed to this thread.
Some good information was gleaned from this thread.

[Ysabel Kid]

Been doing a little research on this issue.
Apparently most mainline denominations have a written very similar stance as the UMC on this issue.
But apparently it's kept very low key for obvious reasons ($) and apparently most churches don't post the signs.
Personally, I think it's very hypocritical.
Joe average CCW holder is kept in the dark that part of his or her weekly offering plate money is going to an anti-gun political agenda.
The church denomination full well knows if these signs were posted hackles would be raised.

I'm sure my church is as well, though I've never seen it posted, and I have carried there. I don't go out with my family without the means to protect them. Even to church.

If I saw that sign I'd tell the pastor/priest that they'll never see me, my family - or my money - again. What hogwash. Like that is going to stop evil. I don't love evil and I don't turn the other cheek. That's cowardice. A real man - and a real Christian - looks to destroy evil, never to accomodate it.

[Ysabel Kid]

I would refuse to belong to or contribute to, any entity calling itself a 'church' that was so hypocritical and anti-life as to be anti-gun. They may as well promote abortion-on-demand if they are going to be that way.

+ infinity

[Ysabel Kid]

BTW, I've already warned my wife that if the priest ever goes into an anti-gun homily at Mass I will not hesitate to get up right then and there and leave - and I will make a scene.

I think this worries her every time we go to church!

I'm sure the Christians in Iraq, Syria, and other Muslim-controlled lands wish they were armed when churches were attacked. Granted, not likely to happen here (yet), but again, burying one's head in the sand (or elsewhere) and singing kumbya is not an effective strategy against evil.

I like to think of my Saviour when he was in the Temple overturning the moneychangers tables, or bearing the lash of the Romans, or when he died for my sins. Strong and forceful. This peaceful lamb and bunnies depiction is the feminization of our faith - and is going to get the entire world overun by the pedophile-worshipping barbarians...

[Old Ironsights]

...I like to think of my Saviour when he was in the Temple overturning the moneychangers tables, or bearing the lash of the Romans, or when he died for my sins. Strong and forceful. This peaceful lamb and bunnies depiction is the feminization of our faith - and is going to get the entire world overun by the pedophile-worshipping barbarians...

"Back in the day", a Whip (whip of cords) was a Formidable Weapon.

Christ was able to MAKE one (in the non-miraculous sense) from what was available at the temple, then USE IT in a display of Divine Righteous Violence - against those who were ONLY being OFFENSIVE "in church". He was defending Propriety (and, of course, making a Point).

But, these days, it's kind of hard to make a modern Formidable Weapon from Bulletins and Hymnbooks, and being physicallly violent towards someone who is only "offensive" is not something that WE have the authority to do.

But with CCW in Church, we aren't even talking abut that level of minutae, but of defense of Life itself. We aren't Muslims. We are not "called" to become Martyrs. St. Paul expressly preached AGAINST seeking out martyrdom. Anyone who allows themselves to be killed, when they could have reasonably prevented it, violates this Pauline premise. (Now, if there is no Reasonable Defense against Violence directed at you because of your Belief, then your passive martyrdom is to be counted as a blessing. But ONLY in that circumstance.)

It is no more ungodly to carry a weapon into church - a hunk of metal that you sincerely Pray remains unused - than it is to carry a phone, or a pocket knife, or a lighter, or a watch, or, or, or...

Until it is needed, a gun is just a THING. A hunk of metal with potential... and in your hands, the potential is to preserve Life. (If you are worried about using it in any other way, then you probably shouldn't be carrying one at all anyway.)

[cshold]

...I like to think of my Saviour when he was in the Temple overturning the moneychangers tables, or bearing the lash of the Romans, or when he died for my sins. Strong and forceful. This peaceful lamb and bunnies depiction is the feminization of our faith - and is going to get the entire world overun by the pedophile-worshipping barbarians...

"Back in the day", a Whip (whip of cords) was a Formidable Weapon.

Christ was able to MAKE one (in the non-miraculous sense) from what was available at the temple, then USE IT in a display of Divine Righteous Violence - against those who were ONLY being OFFENSIVE "in church". He was defending Propriety (and, of course, making a Point).

But, these days, it's kind of hard to make a modern Formidable Weapon from Bulletins and Hymnbooks, and being physicallly violent towards someone who is only "offensive" is not something that WE have the authority to do.

But with CCW in Church, we aren't even talking abut that level of minutae, but of defense of Life itself. We aren't Muslims. We are not "called" to become Martyrs. St. Paul expressly preached AGAINST seeking out martyrdom. Anyone who allows themselves to be killed, when they could have reasonably prevented it, violates this Pauline premise. (Now, if there is no Reasonable Defense against Violence directed at you because of your Belief, then your passive martyrdom is to be counted as a blessing. But ONLY in that circumstance.)

It is no more ungodly to carry a weapon into church - a hunk of metal that you sincerely Pray remains unused - than it is to carry a phone, or a pocket knife, or a lighter, or a watch, or, or, or...

Until it is needed, a gun is just a THING. A hunk of metal with potential... and in your hands, the potential is to preserve Life. (If you are worried about using it in any other way, then you probably shouldn't be carrying one at all anyway.)

OI, If you wouldn't mind, could you post the scripture verses to backup the above that's underlined.
Thanks Brother, good points.