Restore to original configuration or not?
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Restore to original configuration or not?
Hi all, in this recent topic, I told the story of my grandfathers old 1894 that he converted to 30wcf from 38-55.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=61526
The rifle dates to either 1899 or 1903 depending on the source.
The rifle is in very good condition in my opinion. I was just shooting it the other week with Winchester factory ammo. Shoots great.
I'm trying to decide whether to convert the rifle back to 38-55 or not. It does have a lot of history as a 30wcf, but also has history in the orig. caliber as well. I already have a marlin in 30-30, but don't have a 38-55 yet. What do you guys think. I definitely don't care about the monetary value of this rifle as I would for sure never ever sell it.
IF I were to convert it I would need:
1. Cody museum letter
2. 38-55 barrel
3. Correct forearm
4. Forearm cap
5. Someone to do the work
Missing anything? I'm sure that the mag tube and everything else are original.
Would the barrel have to be original vintage? Is it even possible to get a decent 38-55 barrel from the turn of the century?
Thanks guys
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=61526
The rifle dates to either 1899 or 1903 depending on the source.
The rifle is in very good condition in my opinion. I was just shooting it the other week with Winchester factory ammo. Shoots great.
I'm trying to decide whether to convert the rifle back to 38-55 or not. It does have a lot of history as a 30wcf, but also has history in the orig. caliber as well. I already have a marlin in 30-30, but don't have a 38-55 yet. What do you guys think. I definitely don't care about the monetary value of this rifle as I would for sure never ever sell it.
IF I were to convert it I would need:
1. Cody museum letter
2. 38-55 barrel
3. Correct forearm
4. Forearm cap
5. Someone to do the work
Missing anything? I'm sure that the mag tube and everything else are original.
Would the barrel have to be original vintage? Is it even possible to get a decent 38-55 barrel from the turn of the century?
Thanks guys
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
I'd like to see the old gal back to original.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
I have not seen pic of the rifle, but why would you need a forearm and forearm cap?
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Mike
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
A picture of your rifle would help. A letter from Cody would be a good start.
It`s original configuration??? Rifle,carbine,half octagon,full octagon,round???
If just to be a shooter, Jes could rebore the barrel to .38-55 and make it a shooter.
It`s original configuration??? Rifle,carbine,half octagon,full octagon,round???
If just to be a shooter, Jes could rebore the barrel to .38-55 and make it a shooter.
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
It may be worth a try, but don't put too much faith in a Cody letter when it comes to the Winchester Model 94. A lot of the records were lost long ago. I had a half-round takedown rifle with a tang sight, and all the Cody Museum people could tell me was that the serial number had been applied on August 12, 1918. They had no other information as to configuration, caliber, or options.
If you don't already have it, you should get a copy of Robert Renneberg's book "Winchester Model 94 A Century of Craftsmanship". It contains a wealth of information that may help you make some decisions about your Winchester.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-Mode ... 35e28d30e9
SHASTA
If you don't already have it, you should get a copy of Robert Renneberg's book "Winchester Model 94 A Century of Craftsmanship". It contains a wealth of information that may help you make some decisions about your Winchester.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-Mode ... 35e28d30e9
SHASTA
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avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member
http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html
avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Send it to Mike. I'm sure he can make it whatever you want.
Byron
Byron
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
If it shoots well, why would you change it? It still won't be original (not that I would care about that). And it is, after all, your grandfather's creation. Why not use it as is? .38-55 is a heck of a fine round and a lot more flexible that .30-30.
No way, you would come out ahead dollar wise that I can see.
No way, you would come out ahead dollar wise that I can see.
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
BrentD wrote:If it shoots well, why would you change it? It still won't be original (not that I would care about that). And it is, after all, your grandfather's creation. Why not use it as is? .38-55 is a heck of a fine round and a lot more flexible that .30-30.
No way, you would come out ahead dollar wise that I can see.
Methinks you might've got it backwards, Brent - It's a .30-30 now, already altered from the original .38-55 chambering, that FLINT is considering restoring to the original .38.55 chambering with a gennie .38-55 barrel.
.
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
If your only reason for keeping it is sentimental, i.e., because it's your grandfather's gun, then why convert it (back) to something that your grandfather obviously didn't want it to be?
To me, it's like saying "Gee, thanks for the gun, Gramps. I don't like it."
If you're trying to restore it to original condition, sans original parts, it's just going to be new parts on an old action, parts of which used to belong to your grandfather, and monetarily it won't be worth near what an original or even a brand new gun in the selected caliber might be worth..
But if you just have a hankerin' for a .38-55 for a shooter, and the parts are handy to do the job, have at it. If the case is that Gramps would tear it down to make it what he wanted it to be then you're not exactly pokin' the old fella in the eye are you?
Huh... that's pretty much what Gramps did, ain't it?
Funny how that works.
To me, it's like saying "Gee, thanks for the gun, Gramps. I don't like it."
If you're trying to restore it to original condition, sans original parts, it's just going to be new parts on an old action, parts of which used to belong to your grandfather, and monetarily it won't be worth near what an original or even a brand new gun in the selected caliber might be worth..
But if you just have a hankerin' for a .38-55 for a shooter, and the parts are handy to do the job, have at it. If the case is that Gramps would tear it down to make it what he wanted it to be then you're not exactly pokin' the old fella in the eye are you?
Huh... that's pretty much what Gramps did, ain't it?
Funny how that works.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Nope, I can't read. You are right.
But I'm still not for changing it, even though I like the .38 better. Keep it like Grampa had it intended. But most of all, hunt it!
But I'm still not for changing it, even though I like the .38 better. Keep it like Grampa had it intended. But most of all, hunt it!
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
If it were me, I would buy another rifle in 38-55... :)
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
[quote="1892"]If it were me, I would buy another rifle in 38-55... [/quotehttp://
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product ... =11&page=1
Standard Barrel, 38-55, No bells and whistles
http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product ... =11&page=1
Standard Barrel, 38-55, No bells and whistles
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
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Second Amendment Foundation
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Proud Life Member Of:
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Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Here is a crummy iPad picture of it.
There is also a picture of it in the topic that I linked to in the original post.
So, I'm not sure that my grandfather changed barrels in the gun because he didn't like the original caliber or because he just wanted to. My dad says that the bore got so bad on the orig. barrel that the bullets would hit the target sideways. And probably at that time, (50s), 30-30 barrels were way easier to come by.
Dad says that the orig. barrel was long, so it would have been configured as a rifle, and it still has the crescent buttplate. When they put the 20" 30WCF barrel on, they put on a carbine fore end and barrel band. The mag. Tube is orig though, so, I guess it's a half length tube? It extends 11.5" past the receiver.
There is also a picture of it in the topic that I linked to in the original post.
So, I'm not sure that my grandfather changed barrels in the gun because he didn't like the original caliber or because he just wanted to. My dad says that the bore got so bad on the orig. barrel that the bullets would hit the target sideways. And probably at that time, (50s), 30-30 barrels were way easier to come by.
Dad says that the orig. barrel was long, so it would have been configured as a rifle, and it still has the crescent buttplate. When they put the 20" 30WCF barrel on, they put on a carbine fore end and barrel band. The mag. Tube is orig though, so, I guess it's a half length tube? It extends 11.5" past the receiver.
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Keep it the same. Heck, engrave the receiver with your grandad and your names. Document it as best you can. Include pics of you and your grandad, with the rifle if possible.
Kind regards,
Tycer
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Who is Mike?arjunky wrote:Send it to Mike. I'm sure he can make it whatever you want.
Byron
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
I didn't know him unfortunately. He was born 1907 and died 1967. I was born 1977.Tycer wrote:Keep it the same. Heck, engrave the receiver with your grandad and your names. Document it as best you can. Include pics of you and your grandad, with the rifle if possible.
Whatever I do or don't do with it, one thing is for sure is that it will be hunted with!!
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
I have not seen pic of the rifle, but why would you need a forearm and forearm cap?FLINT wrote:Who is Mike?arjunky wrote:Send it to Mike. I'm sure he can make it whatever you want.
Byron
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Mike
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Shoot it before you decide to make changes. You may find you like it the way it is configured now. It may shoot like the house afire with cast bullets. Personally, I think it has character and it has a family story behind it. I'd proudly hunt with it and keep it the same as long as everything works.
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
1892 wrote:If it were me, I would buy another rifle in 38-55...
This is what I'd do.
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Since you have the rounds Grandad used BEFORE it was converted... I'd convert it back. It may have been converted to 30WCF as someone noted... .38-55 barrels were hard to come by. They still are... but possibly less so now.
Mike Hunter can make you a barrel with the correct stampings for the period of rifle the serial number denotes. A forend cap and tenon from VTI for the '66/'73/'92 will work. They may still be available as Winchester parts from Browning... or Midwest Gun Works. Wood is available from Precision Gun Works.
An Angle Eject barrel in .38-55 would fit, just need to cut a new extractor groove for the top eject action. Tho' the 2008 catalog lists it as "factory only." 1 ** U340100830 BARREL 38-55 WIN LEGACY OCTAGON 26” (FACTORY ONLY) $373.25
But forearms are:
27 U342454270 FOREARM WALNUT LEGACY 10" OCT $44.75
27 U342454280 FOREARM WALNUT LEGACY 10" OCT CHECKERED $52.00
Cap & tenon:
NS U342550340 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON $17.25 (I think this one is in the white)
NS U342550360 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON STEEL $26.00 (& this one is blued steel)
NS U342550370 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON CASE COLOR $28.75
NS U342550320 FOREARM CAP RETAINER PACK RIFLE/OCTAGON $24.75
NS U344912600 FOREARM CAP SCREW PACK RIFLE/OCTAGON (2X) $1.50
NS U343850200 MAGAZINE TUBE BRACKET OCTAGON $31.25
54 U343800440 MAGAZINE TUBE LEGACY 24" $26.00
Pricing & availability has probably changed since the 2008 catalog was issued... but a phone call will let you know.
But, for a non-traditional heavy barreled version... don't forget Numrich Gun Parts .38-55 octagon barrel (link). At $142.75, a bargain. You'd have to relieve the forend & cap a little (no taper to these barrels). And... note, they're not legal for NRA sanctioned Cowboy Leveraction Silhouette! I have one in .30-30 and it's super accurate!
Mike Hunter might know, but I think this barrel does mimic a factory heavy barrel that was offered... but these aren't marked "Winchester" and as such, is what makes it not legal for the NRA Cowboy Silhouette, if my reading of the rules is correct.
Mike Hunter can make you a barrel with the correct stampings for the period of rifle the serial number denotes. A forend cap and tenon from VTI for the '66/'73/'92 will work. They may still be available as Winchester parts from Browning... or Midwest Gun Works. Wood is available from Precision Gun Works.
An Angle Eject barrel in .38-55 would fit, just need to cut a new extractor groove for the top eject action. Tho' the 2008 catalog lists it as "factory only." 1 ** U340100830 BARREL 38-55 WIN LEGACY OCTAGON 26” (FACTORY ONLY) $373.25
But forearms are:
27 U342454270 FOREARM WALNUT LEGACY 10" OCT $44.75
27 U342454280 FOREARM WALNUT LEGACY 10" OCT CHECKERED $52.00
Cap & tenon:
NS U342550340 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON $17.25 (I think this one is in the white)
NS U342550360 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON STEEL $26.00 (& this one is blued steel)
NS U342550370 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON CASE COLOR $28.75
NS U342550320 FOREARM CAP RETAINER PACK RIFLE/OCTAGON $24.75
NS U344912600 FOREARM CAP SCREW PACK RIFLE/OCTAGON (2X) $1.50
NS U343850200 MAGAZINE TUBE BRACKET OCTAGON $31.25
54 U343800440 MAGAZINE TUBE LEGACY 24" $26.00
Pricing & availability has probably changed since the 2008 catalog was issued... but a phone call will let you know.
But, for a non-traditional heavy barreled version... don't forget Numrich Gun Parts .38-55 octagon barrel (link). At $142.75, a bargain. You'd have to relieve the forend & cap a little (no taper to these barrels). And... note, they're not legal for NRA sanctioned Cowboy Leveraction Silhouette! I have one in .30-30 and it's super accurate!
Mike Hunter might know, but I think this barrel does mimic a factory heavy barrel that was offered... but these aren't marked "Winchester" and as such, is what makes it not legal for the NRA Cowboy Silhouette, if my reading of the rules is correct.
Griff,
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No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Found this article which you may have possibly seen.
http://www.realguns.com/articles/506.htm
Difficult choice.
There are opinions about original rifles with new barrels as collector items.
But as the article shows could be a good shooter in 38-55.
http://www.realguns.com/articles/506.htm
Difficult choice.
There are opinions about original rifles with new barrels as collector items.
But as the article shows could be a good shooter in 38-55.
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Don't second guess gramps, he was smart enough to see that you got that fine rifle.
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Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
More than likely the conversion from 38-55 was out of necessity rather than desire. By the 1940/50 the 38-55 had become fairly obsolete, and ammo had become fairly had to find. Remember, this was pre internet days, so if your local gun shop didn’t carry it or couldn’t get it in you were pretty much SOL.
I have seen a lot of Winchesters converted form the older black powder ctgs to more modern and available ctgs. Rechambering 32-40 barrels to 32 WS, reboring and rechambering 25-35 to 30 WFC, and barrel swaps were very popular.
It wasn’t until the 80s or 90s that the 38-55 became popular again when Winchester again made the 1894 in the 38-55 ctg.
I have seen a lot of Winchesters converted form the older black powder ctgs to more modern and available ctgs. Rechambering 32-40 barrels to 32 WS, reboring and rechambering 25-35 to 30 WFC, and barrel swaps were very popular.
It wasn’t until the 80s or 90s that the 38-55 became popular again when Winchester again made the 1894 in the 38-55 ctg.
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
So true Mike.
Today there is no such thing as a truly obsolete caliber. If the main function of the rifle is for hunting the re-boring for 30-30 would make sense. I think the barrel change is part of the family history of the rifle now.
Found this ad for your info.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 771498.htm
Today there is no such thing as a truly obsolete caliber. If the main function of the rifle is for hunting the re-boring for 30-30 would make sense. I think the barrel change is part of the family history of the rifle now.
Found this ad for your info.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 771498.htm
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
oh wow, somehow I'd missed the last 6 replies on this. Thanks for all of the input and thanks Griff for all of that information - I'm going to PM you.
I think what I'll do is order the cody letter and then show it to my father and see what he thinks about converting it back. He seemed to think that the 38-55 bullets were really cool and has brought them up a few times.
If he thinks that it would be cool, then it will happen. If he would like to keep it the way his dad made it then we'll do that. If it were just me, I think I'd convert it. I'm all about having a 38-55 now, and it kind of seems like a waste to buy a whole other rifle when I have this perfectly good one just waiting. I could think of the 30-30 barrel as a temporary fix, one of the many chapters in the life of the rifle.
I think what I'll do is order the cody letter and then show it to my father and see what he thinks about converting it back. He seemed to think that the 38-55 bullets were really cool and has brought them up a few times.
If he thinks that it would be cool, then it will happen. If he would like to keep it the way his dad made it then we'll do that. If it were just me, I think I'd convert it. I'm all about having a 38-55 now, and it kind of seems like a waste to buy a whole other rifle when I have this perfectly good one just waiting. I could think of the 30-30 barrel as a temporary fix, one of the many chapters in the life of the rifle.
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
FLINT wrote:oh wow, somehow I'd missed the last 6 replies on this. Thanks for all of the input and thanks Griff for all of that information - I'm going to PM you.
I think what I'll do is order the cody letter and then show it to my father and see what he thinks about converting it back. He seemed to think that the 38-55 bullets were really cool and has brought them up a few times.
If he thinks that it would be cool, then it will happen. If he would like to keep it the way his dad made it then we'll do that. If it were just me, I think I'd convert it. I'm all about having a 38-55 now, and it kind of seems like a waste to buy a whole other rifle when I have this perfectly good one just waiting. I could think of the 30-30 barrel as a temporary fix, one of the many chapters in the life of the rifle.
Careful, buddy, or you'll get your account locked!
Re: Restore to original configuration or not?
Haha, yeah, really.
If it was just me, then the more the merrier. However, my wife has a different philosophy.
If it was just me, then the more the merrier. However, my wife has a different philosophy.