Mr Rogers and Jim Janos (Jesse Ventura) from a SEAL

[sore shoulder]

Navy SEAL Don Shipley who exposes a lot of fake military/Stolen Valor turds gives the goods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeO1DUtnKsE

I know, its Alex Jones, but, Jesse's UDT instructor, who owns the bar he was supposedly punched in by Kyle, and other SEALS agree, says no way it happened, he wasn't even there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srRndHu65W0

[sore shoulder]

Sorry Hobie I guess this should have been in politics.

[Blaine]

Maybe, maybe not..... It's too bad that War Stories these days escalate to such an intense scrutiny.... Kyle was one of, if not the best Snipers ever. I'll personally leave it at that....

[CowboyTutt]

I guess we will never know what witnesses Kyle could have bought to the table since he was no longer alive to testify or perhaps recant. I think Kyle's service to his country and his accomplishments far exceed Ventura's. Ventura can enjoy the money promoting himself and his brand name. I don't care to meet the man. I would have enjoyed meeting Kyle. -Tutt

P.S. How's life in the Rockies Frank? Miss those daily evening summer thunder showers and all the elk you can eat.

[sore shoulder]

It's interesting to me that the only witness that testified at the trial was a sister of a SEAL. You would think that Kyles brothers in arms would have stepped forward to clear his name, if only with an affidavit. I've done it myself. Remember this was a civil trial so the burden was on Ventura to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the incident never happened.

Things are good here Tutt, hope the sames true for you.

[Rube Burrows]

Well I know Ventura won in court. I wish Kyle could have been there to actually defend himself. Wonder how things would have turned out then. I guess we are supposed to believe in our court system, right?


That said, The second video above is obviously a pro Ventura video. The guy is promoting Ventura's book and his friendship with Ventura at every breath. The bar owner (A friend of Ventura) and also another of his buddys is the backbone of the whole "It didn't happen" group.

Im not say it did or didn't. Maybe something happened and maybe it didn't.

[FWiedner]

The human ego is an odd thing.

Why would a guy like Chris Kyle make the choice to embellish a tale to make himself look like a big shot?

I'd think that based on just the known facts that he wouldn't have to tell tall tales to impress anyone.

Like I said, it's an odd quirk of the human ego. Maybe it was all the media attention. Maybe it was somebody else. Who knows?

As for Jesse, he's always been an attention seeker. Always been... loud.

Even with that, I can't say I hold it against any man for defending himself against a falsehood that affects his reputation and livelihood.

All I can really recognize without question is that both men served their country with honor performing dangerous and demanding work.

It's a shame they couldn't settle their differences without it making them both look bad in public.

[sore shoulder]

Fred, no doubt Jesse has cultivated an inflammatory persona, just his name change makes that really clear. But one thing I can't get past whether I buy into his conspiracy theories or not, is he never comes across as lying, and he will always have my respect for slapping the stuff out of Piers Morgan, and making that little twerp FOX news show host walk off camera mid interview. Some of the body language demonstrated by Kyle whenever asked about Ventura seems really odd. No doubt everyone suffers from ego. I've met people who have done very impressive things, yet still felt the need to "embellish" to put it politely. However I'm in agreement, anyone who has served, and has gone through arguably the worlds toughest training program has my respect for at least that accomplishment. In general I give people who served in the military a higher level of initial respect.

In any event, my main reason for posting was Venturas legitimate SEAL history that seems to be called in to question a lot, and that stupid Mr Rogers/Cpt Kangaroo email that for some reason is still being passed around by the morons who have nothing better to do than forward every single thing that hits their inbox without verifying it. I put the "Starbucks doesn't support the troops" myth right up there with that one. Since I know for a fact they go out of their way to do exactly the opposite.

[Streetstar]

I have a good friend who i served with long ago-- we were in Desert Storm together. I got out early, he stayed in. 2 additional tours in Bosnia, 1 in Somalia and 1 in Iraq. Lots of ugliness to be sure.
He was a forward Air Traffic Controller (Army) . No , he wasnt kicking in doors with the SAS, but these guys' have to fast rope into hostile territory and work side by side with light infantry to secure landing zones, then direct traffic -- its a tough job

Now, i cant even go get a beer with him in public, because if he gets a buzz, he will be regaling bar patrons with his tall tales - some of which may have a little basis in truth - so that makes them good to build on i suppose.
And if he should find another veteran , the tall tales start flying. And sometimes out and out lies.

I have taken him aside more than once to remind him -- "Bill, youve done more than your fair share - and your actual military career is something to be proud of, you don't have to embellish things for strangers who just think your a loud drunk, much better to assume the role of the quiet professional"

This all makes perfect sense to him at the time of conversation, but 2 weeks later he is at it again. Looney Tunes

Its some kind of mental disconnect from reality i think

[Booger Bill]

Every last one of us is a sinner. Hopefully we turn around from a morale religious standpoint sometime in our lives. We are born sinners. Even once "turned around" or saved we sometimes screw up. Look at what happened to Brian Williams, the most recent screw up in the news. He was highly respected and a huge part of his job was being truthful. One lie screwed up the rest of his life!
Maybe Kyle was or was NOT lying, we will never know absolutely. Same for Ventura. I know I would be PO`ed were someone to lie about me, and I have had it happen. The maddest I ever got in my life was when I was lied about.
I had at least two close friends in my life that took BS`ing to a level of fine art. I came to accept and expect it from them as entertainment. Trouble was sometimes it caused trouble. Both friends in reality had for a fact, lived adventurous lives in both the military and law enforcement. Once I cracked up a airplane, had a father and son with me and we all were friends to both the guys I am talking about. We weren't hurt but my plane was totaled. We needed a ride home. I called best friend Bill, and he got us. Might have missed a shift to rescue us. I was a Lockheed guard and knew the test pilots. Later it got back to me that a pilot was saying I had to be overloaded as I had THREE passengers with me. Bill had put himself in the crash. I dont know why he though it romantic to be in a crashed airplane when he wasn't, I sure wish to hell I wasn't, and found nothing "romantic about it, just expensive and embarrassing. Now I would have in fact, been grossly overloaded had bill been with us as he must have told the test pilot. Had it went farther the insurance might have not paid off and I could have lost my license.
I cant fathom why Bryan Williams thought it romantic to lie about being shot at. I and some of you have been shot at and I doubt if any of us thought it romantic. Mine, a excited hunter emptied a rifle at me mistaking me for a deer.
Screw the Kyle/Ventura story or incident. The other parts of both of their lives far outshine anything I ever done. I could never even had a crack at their training from a physical standpoint.
I dont know the truth of their feud, but from my life experiences at almost 74 years old, and reading all I could about it, I tend to believe Ventura`s version. I dont think anything less of Kyle and truth is, I never did like Ventura`s politics.

[piller]

I never heard Mr. Rogers say that he was a Navy SEAL, so the ones prevaricating about it are the ones telling the tale. He did not.

Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle were both graduates of the BUDS and all the other parts that go into becoming a SEAL. They were able to do things I couldn't do. I did make it through Airborne School, Delta Co. Class 11/87, but I was not as physically able as either one of them and couldn't have made it through the rest of SEAL training. As far as the bar fight, I wasn't there and don't know whether it was truth or lie. I don't like a lot of what I see with Ventura, but dislike of someone is not a reason to think they are lying. Just my opinion, so it is not worth anything to anyone but me, but Ventura hurt himself in my viewpoint when he continued the lawsuit after Kyle was dead. It felt to me that he was harming a widow and kids who had lost their husband/father. I hadn't even cared about the supposed bar fight and whether it was real of not until that lawsuit was settled. That is when I thought Ventura came across as being in the wrong. Again, just my opinion.

[FWiedner]

If I recall, Fred Rogers was actually Presbyterian minister, and Bob Keeshan was a U.S. Marine during WWII, but saw no combat.

Both men had long-running family friendly shows that touched hundreds of thousands if not millions of children with a deliberate sense of common-sense, morality, and human kindness. The kind of stuff kids ought to see.

Perhaps I'm being silly or sentimental, but that's kind of bad-azz on the other extreme end of the scale. Action at either end changes people.

Those men were deliberate characters (for good).

[Goat]

If I recall, Fred Rogers was actually Presbyterian minister, and Bob Keeshan was a U.S. Marine during WWII, but saw no combat.

Both men had long-running family friendly shows that touched hundreds of thousands if not millions of children with a deliberate sense of common-sense, morality, and human kindness. The kind of stuff kids ought to see.

Perhaps I'm being silly or sentimental, but that's kind of bad-azz on the other extreme end of the scale. Action at either end changes people.

Those men were deliberate characters (for good).

WOW!!! you have a gift with words as well as some deep insight. I appreciate your post and recognition of heroes that will never be noted as such this side of eternity. My hat, sir, is off to you.


Goat

[Streetstar]

Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle were both graduates of the BUDS and all the other parts that go into becoming a SEAL. They were able to do things I couldn't do. I did make it through Airborne School, Delta Co. Class 11/87, but I was not as physically able as either one of them and couldn't have made it through the rest of SEAL training. .

Dont confuse physical prowess and the ability to survive hard training with real character (i dont think you are, but i have had conversations with others who did)

If that were the case, LAnce Armstrong would be lumped in with Mahatma Ghandhi -- We've all heard the rest of that story though

Those that are at the top of their game, physically or mentally, in most arenas , develop and nurture egos the size of Texas

[piller]

Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle were both graduates of the BUDS and all the other parts that go into becoming a SEAL. They were able to do things I couldn't do. I did make it through Airborne School, Delta Co. Class 11/87, but I was not as physically able as either one of them and couldn't have made it through the rest of SEAL training. .

Dont confuse physical prowess and the ability to survive hard training with real character (i dont think you are, but i have had conversations with others who did)

If that were the case, LAnce Armstrong would be lumped in with Mahatma Ghandhi -- We've all heard the rest of that story though

Those that are at the top of their game, physically or mentally, in most arenas , develop and nurture egos the size of Texas

Don't worry, I am not confusing physical prowess with character. The Mahatma Gandhi had less physical prowess than most, but he was a tru and real leader who lived up to his principles. There are others for whom character is something that shows up in all parts, and then there are some woh are just rotten to the core even with physical ability that is beyond that of most others. I consider "Tiger" Woods to be rotten to the core, but with ability that is far beyond that of most people. I am willing to forgive many things in others due to the fact that I have been forgiven of many things, but those who don't seem to want forgiveness are not the ones whose character I can admire.

[cshold]

Has anyone thought to ask Brian Williams what he saw.
No doubt he was there.

[Blaine]

Mahatma Gandhi .....

Apropo of maybe nothing, but he thought the Jews should peacefully offer their throats to the Nazi murderers.... He could not see, or imagine one instance where one might use force to protect themselves, or others. Just sayin' I'd rather be in a foxhole with Kyle, or Ventura than Gandhi

[sore shoulder]

Ghandi advocated violence in defense of others and self, and in fact had some pretty not so nice things to say about those who would not. He considered anyone who would not defend themselves to be unmanly. He also advocated training with weapons.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038372_Gandh ... _arms.html

I would gladly defend the foxhole Ghandi, or any other pacifist, was sitting in, and wouldn't mind Kyle and Janos help.

I for one have a great respect for pacifists, I just wish they would let us protect their right to be that way.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I never heard Mr. Rogers say that he was a Navy SEAL, so the ones prevaricating about it are the ones telling the tale. He did not.

Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle were both graduates of the BUDS and all the other parts that go into becoming a SEAL. They were able to do things I couldn't do. I did make it through Airborne School, Delta Co. Class 11/87, but I was not as physically able as either one of them and couldn't have made it through the rest of SEAL training. As far as the bar fight, I wasn't there and don't know whether it was truth or lie. I don't like a lot of what I see with Ventura, but dislike of someone is not a reason to think they are lying. Just my opinion, so it is not worth anything to anyone but me, but Ventura hurt himself in my viewpoint when he continued the lawsuit after Kyle was dead. It felt to me that he was harming a widow and kids who had lost their husband/father. I hadn't even cared about the supposed bar fight and whether it was real of not until that lawsuit was settled. That is when I thought Ventura came across as being in the wrong. Again, just my opinion.

+1 An honorable man would have let it go.

[Blaine]

Ghandi advocated violence in defense of others and self, and in fact had some pretty not so nice things to say about those who would not. He considered anyone who would not defend themselves to be unmanly. He also advocated training with weapons.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038372_Gandh ... _arms.html

I would gladly defend the foxhole Ghandi, or any other pacifist, was sitting in, and wouldn't mind Kyle and Janos help.

I for one have a great respect for pacifists, I just wish they would let us protect their right to be that way.

He must have had a particular dislike of Jews...These are accurate quotes....

On The Holocaust
“Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.”


As to whether the Jews should have committed “collective sucide” by offering themselves to Hitler: “Yes, that would have been heroism.” ~ George Orwell’s “Reflections on Gandhi,” Partisan Review, Jan. 1949

[FWiedner]

... Ventura hurt himself in my viewpoint when he continued the lawsuit after Kyle was dead. It felt to me that he was harming a widow and kids who had lost their husband/father...

+1 An honorable man would have let it go.

I disagree on this point.

Ventura might have dropped it, but he would still have been slandered. Unfortunately, Kyle's wife and kids were put in a position to profit from that dishonesty.

Ventura is not the bad guy in this story. It's not his fault Kyle passed without settling his affairs, good or bad.

The sad fact is that Mr. Kyle made a mistake and put / left his family in a position to be harmed by his war-story.

[sore shoulder]

Barring extremely negligent financial behavior, Kyles family will never have to worry about finances again. So it really comes down to Kyles good name vs Venturas good name, and the fact that either way Ventura loses his in this. Choosing not to lose financially at the same time is simply prudent and reasonable, and Kyle is the one to blame for it not Ventura. However, there are those that will hold Kyle on such a high pedestal that no matter how much evidence Ventura produced they would still find him to be the bad guy. I do not. A jury selected by both parties voted 8-2 that Ventura proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the accusations were false. Ventura has the right to that decision whether Kyle is dead or not. Any alleged "damage" to Kyles family and reputation is mostly fictitious and inconsequential when compared to the fame he now has. Kyles celebrity reputation can afford it.

My mention of Kangaroo and Mr Rogers was simply to point out that people go around repeating things that aren't true even after they have been completely debunked several times. I STILL get emails forwarded from the "email forward clickers" who can't possibly read all the stuff they forward. I've adopted the policy of simply sending them to spam permanently since there doesn't seem to be any other recourse, and now FAcebook is getting the sme way with all the "shares".

[CowboyTutt]

I sure would have felt better about this whole situation if Chris had been there to testify on his own behalf, and maybe call in other witnesses who were there. I personally don't feel justice was served here without more testimony. Jesse became a politician after his service. Kyle never did. He tried to help veterans, not become a politician. Jesse is still trying to find his audience with his “pirate radio”, his books and still his popularity isn't what it was. I hope he enjoys the money. My friends tell me he has lost the respect of most of the military community but I only have that information 3rd party. I totally agree with our own Nate K Jone's here. Yes, Jesse had more “good ol' boys” show up at the trial and give dispositions. Sounds like many an “Old West” trial to me. “Yeah, my Buddy the bar owner here say's it never happened!” Maybe some day we will know what happened, but I'm not satisfied yet guys. Let the appeals process play out and lets see what happens. If Kyle lied, he lied. We are not done here yet. -Tutt