Does anyone modify the 1892 Winchester cartridge guide?

[Pitchfire]

I have a B92 in 44 and noticed that the carrier comes up too high to line up the cartridges with the center of the bore. With lighter bullets it doesn't matter much as they feed in well enough. I suppose this is common, but I couldn't help but notice that a modified cartridge guide that stopped the carrier just a little lower would help feed longer rounds. I get that the B92 wont stabilize bullets beyond a certain point (300 grains or perhaps less), but up to that point it would help all bullets feed. I checked Steve's page and see no mention of the service. It seems that it would be a straightforward and simple addition that is not subject to high pressures or abusive wear. Somebody has to have done this (lots of somebodies I would guess). Am I crazy?

[plowboy 45]

I have the same carbine, but I've had no trouble with it
Someone bound to come along and comment on this 2reckley

[jnyork]

Are you exceeding the maximum overall length when loading your heavy bullets?

[Pitchfire]

Yes (actually Buffalo Bore is, I have only loaded 240 grain sierras for the rifle). For instance I bought some standard pressure Buffalo Bore "Heavy" 305 grain hard cast for my Super Blackhawks that measures 1.630" (.02" over spec). For academia's sake I loaded one into the B92. With the wide nose (large meplat) it won't make it into the chamber at the angle the carrier presents it. If I depress the cartridge slightly after it is lifted however it would line up with the bore such that while it may or may not feed reliably at least it wouldn't shave the bullet on the top of the chamber. (and I do not believe that it would shave the other side when fed farther if I were to do so, Ie. the presentation is out of center vertically with the bore)

I believe it would feed smoother with all bullet weights by having the carrier lift the cartridge into better alignment with the bore. Not sure that's disputable.

It isn't that I'm trying to feed the rifle over spec ammo, as I have had no intention on using bullets that long/with that wide a meplat. But for something like the 280gr Swift A-frame that I would like to try and for everything I feed the rifle I would like optimal feeding to get as much out of the rifle as is possible. The 305 Grain was something I suspected wouldn't work and have gathered would not even stabilize properly even if it fed reliably, so I used it to satisfy my curiosity so far as feeding goes.

[Griff]

The cartridge guides in a mdl 92 don't "stop" the carrier. (I knew Nate would correct me!) The ramp on the side of the lever determines how high the carrier goes. A part I forget about! Taking some material off that would decrease the angle the carrier rises; but... that would have shorter rounds sitting too low to feed.

Any of the pistol caliber leverguns are just plain persnickety when it comes to OAL and bullet shape. Especially when those are a straight-walled case! Just like in an auto-loader, wide meplats are often a no-go situation. You could also open up the rim slots in the guides to allow the rim up quicker, thereby reducing the angle of entry. But, it's not reversible until you buy new guides!

If your gun allows a 1.632" round to feed up from the magazine, that's rather astonishing. ISTR that most have an upper limit at around 1.610".

Stick with a round flat nose & 265grains as the upper limit, life is far easier. Keep 'em ~1.600" and they oughta feed like popcorn thru a goose!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

OK, The first thing to keep in mind, all leveraction, pump action and semi-auto guns (long guns or handguns) are ammo length and bullet shape sensitive. Some more than other. For instance, you don't think about it much if you are dealing with a rifle cal. like 3006, 308 or 223 and even 30-30. Those are bottleneck calibers. Bottlenecks always feed better than straightwall ammo, whether it is a rifle cal or a pistol cal. That's because you have a small diameter bullet going into a really big hole by comparison, the bottleneck chamber being much like a funnel. The original Winchester 92's were designed to work with bottleneck ammo in the 1.5" to 1.6" OAL with round nose flat point bullets. Ammo like 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 and 25-20.
These modern straight wall ammo 92’s are a lot like semi-auto handguns. There’s just some ammo they aren’t going to work well with.
What that means is they may not work well with really long ammo (They tend to hit the top inside of the chamber before they make the turn into the chamber) or really short ammo.
To compound the problem, your B92 and the current Wins from Miroku still use cartridge guides much like the original 92's. If your gun was in 44-40 or 38-40 those guides would work just fine. But for 44mag the rim slots in the B92 guides are laid over too much. This is one of the reasons I like the Rossi's. Rossi figured out a long time ago, that if they changed the angle more toward vertical it helps bring the back end up sooner.
Like a semi-auto handgun one of the things you can do is ramp the chamber mouth some and it tend to lower the front. The carrier height is determined by the two detents on the inside of the receiver that the carrier detent plunger go into in the up or down position. To lower the carrier just remove some metal from the top front portion of the carrier.


Griff,
That stop on the back of the carrier is not only a cart stop but this is where the lever hits to push the carrier back down when closing the action. The pad on the bottom of the carrier is where the lever pushes it to the up position when fully opened.

[Malamute]

To lower the carrier just remove some metal from the top front portion of the carrier.

Do you mean from the top flat where the bullet part of a cartridge lies on the carrier before it feeds into the chamber?

Somebody on the forum did something of that sort to get fatter bulleted cartridges to feed in their 92, I dont recall who it was. I bookmarked the post when I later asked about it but that computer died.

Found pics I saved. Hope the person who supplied them doesnt mind me posting them.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

To lower the carrier just remove some metal from the top front portion of the carrier.

Do you mean from the top flat where the bullet part of a cartridge lies on the carrier before it feeds into the chamber?

Somebody on the forum did something of that sort to get fatter bulleted cartridges to feed in their 92, I dont recall who it was. I bookmarked the post when I later asked about it but that computer died.

Found pics I saved. Hope the person who supplied them doesnt mind me posting them.

Yep, pretty much but you don't have to make the valley. Just grind all the way across the front, just slope it off.
I'll try to remember to take a pic next one i do.

[PriseDeFer]

I wish I could be smart.

[Pete44ru]

I wish I could be smart.

Well, maybe "rich" could be better than "smart".....


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[plowboy 45]

I wish I could be smart.

Well, maybe "rich" could be better than "smart".....


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HEY, I know Rich, he ain't THAT smart, but he does have a lot of money