AR-15 commodity rifle, part 2

[wecsoger]

Finally got some serious range time with my el cheapo AR.

For those that missed original post, I'm calling the AR platform commodities, since they're now so cheap.

For this one, $390 total in parts kit, $60 in a lower, $35 in backup iron sights and a free chicom red dot my FFL threw in. So under half a kilobuck, I've got a very functional carbine.

No failure to function on the part of the rifle. I had already cleaned up bolt and barrel. Had a failure to feed on first round, user induced by not fully inserting mag. Later on, had a double feed. It was the same mag so I'll pull it and evaluate. It still has the original black follower, so I'll swap that and give it another chance.

At the range, iron sights were almost dead on, only minor tweaking required. My aging eyes, maybe not so much. (grin)

Red dot is sighted in too, although both that and the sights I need to loctitie the screws down.

Still not sure what I'm going to do with it. At this sunk cost, it would be a good truck gun or cache gun

[Ray]

Deleted.

[wecsoger]

Don't know about delton. Have had pretty good luck with DPMS overall, except for one upper with the barrel pin slot cut incorrectly. Had to run windage a lot farther off to the side than I wanted on that one.

This parts kit is an ATI. Don't know where they source the parts or do it themselves, but the main thing in an AR is the barrel, and this one is first rate. It shoots better than my eyes. I was only running on the 25 meter bank, but this is a carbine, not a groundhog gun.

I was saying last year I thought the AR craze was slowing down. I still think it is but the market that is slowing is in the high-end 'custom' parts. Now we're in a race to the bottom on pricing, therefore my comments on commodities.

[Panzercat]

Nothing says "commodity" like a blemish fully assembled PSA lower for $129.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[AJMD429]

We have a neighbor who is a hobbyist machinist and builds his own single-shot, bolt actioned .50 browning rifles and likes to work on ARs, building kits up to the final step and letting the owner pin the thing shut so he is not "working" or "manufacturing" any guns......he applied for an FFL almost two years ago and just got it last month, hoping to get in on the evil black gun bonanza.....to be home more to keep the ATF required "regular business hours" he voluntarily took a temporary lay-off and got designated part time at this home-based geek squad/tech. support job (now 21 to 28 hrs. per week vs. 40 to 60 hrs. before)....so essentially, he quit his day job to live his dream of selling ARs.....

He was not aware of the trend toward customer direct internet purchases for a transfer fee and was assuming he could make between 10 % and 40 % mark-up depending on how good a deal he could get from the distributor.....His first customer ordered a gun from Impact and was assuming to pay the standard $10 to $25 for the transfer but was shocked to find it marked-up $175 plus 4.5% sales tax......The customer refused the transaction and left in a cloud of driveway dust, presumably to get a refund or credit from the distributor......I suggested to my neighbor that he visit the shop who does my purchase transfers for $15 and does not charge sales tax since i am not buying the gun from the shop but rather directly from the distributor......My neighbor came back from that shop dejected and blue.....the shop owner informed him of the cold, hard realities of retail gun sales now that the panic rush had come to a screeching halt, showing him guns that had been on the rack or in the display case for three or more years.....I told him if he would do the transfer for $20, $5 more than I had been paying, I would use his FFL instead.....he refused, citing the fact that he did not plan for so long and quit his day job for pennies.....last I heard, in the month or so he had been open, he had sold a 500 round case of 5.56 for a 15% mark-up and had cleaned two 870's for a total of $30 labor.....at this rate, he ain't gonna' be able to keep his and his wife's and his three kids bodies and souls together as the english used to say....

................bummer........... Hope he finds a work-around...

[7.62 Precision]

Likely your function issues are just a result of some low-end parts, slightly out of spec and probably stacking the improper tolerances, and some rough machining and finishes creating friction. If you seem to be having magazine issues, it may be magazines, but it can also be an out-of-spec lower or bolt carrier, and the lower you are using does not always have the best of reputations. So I would expect a few issues starting out, maybe a tendency to be picky toward hotter ammo, until it is well broken in. Make sure you run it wet, and shoot it a bunch, and likely any issues you have will disappear. If after that you have to look at things like buffers and springs, gas port alignment or size, etc, it's no big deal because for the price, you can afford to fiddle with it a bit.

Last I heard, ATI was getting stuff from Del-Ton, which is generally good to go - I have had good luck with parts from Del-Ton, and their CS is good. Had good results from PSA as well on the less-expensive end of things.

[horsesoldier03]

I recently built a PSA with a 416R Stainless Barrel for $420 complete minus sights. I mounted a Vortex 1-4x24 scope on it. When I went to sight it in, I was very pleased to see the 1st three rounds touching. I dumped the remaining 17 rounds of the magazine into a hole that measured less than 1". ARs are no place for a wantabe gunsmith to make money. For the record, my FFL only charges $15 per transfer.

[hayabusa]

The two FFL's I use charge $25-$35 for one transaction.

[wecsoger]

My two malfunctions I'm blaming on the one mag with the black follower. Had a stack of eight and mostly I was just loading three at at time for sighting in. All the rest worked perfectly.

I have heard complaints about DPMS (doesn't pass mill-spec) but other than the one slightly-off upper, I've no complaints.

Feel sorry for the one guy, but you gotta do your research when going into any business. Your thoughts/feelings/assumptions mean nothing to your prospective customers.

I don't know if the AR business has come to a screeching halt, but I'm thinking no amount of viagra is going to help the softness of the upper end of the market. (grin)

So now I've got a functioning carbine. Have to replace that cheap red dot next.

[Chuck 100 yd]

The gun business can be a tough place to be. Gun smithing can be great IF one specializes in high end custom work and has built a reputation. The reputation does not come overnight. General gun smithing is often a dead end and your shop just fills up with junk that collects dust and no money can be made on it.
One success story I know of is Stan Baker of Federal Way WA. Stan invented the screw in choke tube system that became the Win choke back in the early 70's. Stan was working out of his garage one man shop and within a year he had 80 employees.
I have a Remington 1100 with his chokes done while he was still a one man shop operation. He machined those choke tubes from bar stock and made all his own tooling. If the quality was not there,Winchester would not have adopted the system for their guns.
I wish your friend the best but it can be a tough go.

[7.62 Precision]

I have heard complaints about DPMS (doesn't pass mill-spec) but other than the one slightly-off upper, I've no complaints.

Well, I have stopped getting certain parts fem DPMS because I have experienced consistent issues with those specific parts (firing pins, for example) after the Freedom Group bought them. However, it seems to me that their rifles are generally pretty good to go.

Everyone talks about MIL-SPEC. Lots of manufacturers claim MIL-SPEC or better than MIL-SPEC, or whatever they say. Lots of guys over on the basement-dwelling commando forums think anything not MIL-SPEC is junk. But few people ever stop to think about what MIL-SPEC even means in a rifle.

First, we would not be happy if all ARs were MIL-SPEC. We would have very few options. ARs would be much more boring.

Second, commercial AR-15s are not MIL-SPEC. No, your commercial COLT AR is not MIL-SPEC. If you spent (or could currently sell it for) approximately what you could buy a nice new car for, then it might be MIL-SPEC. otherwise, no.

The military puts a set of specifications in place in order to ensure the taxpayers don't get cheated, and the government get's what it paid for. That is all. This means that before the government buys something, certain parts have to be tested, certain materials have to be used, certain dimensions have to be gauged to ensure that everything is the right size. A certain configuration must be adhered to.

If just the testing and gauging was done to ensure commercial-market ARs met the standards they can, we would pay a lot more for our rifles. If materials and configurations were adhered to, we wouldn't have options. We would't have stainless or non-chrome-lined barrels, we wouldn't have 16" barrels, tons of muzzle device options, gas block options, magazine options, etc. So it is precisely because the commercial market does NOT build MIL-SPEC rifles that we have a weapon system that is about the most versatile in history.

I have had a reason to look closely at the specs of many commercial ARs, and I can tell you that many if not most are out of spec in different areas, yet most still work fine, and others work marginally, in other words, when all conditions are right they will always work. If there are small issues like dirt, low-powered ammo, lack of proper lube, a new magazine, etc., then it might malfunction where a rifle that was perfectly in spec would not.

I'll admit, I like a rifle that I know is really built right, like an LMT, for example, and want the best that I can afford, but I am also in favor of the $600 rifles that are more affordable, and may not be perfect, just as I am in favor of the Rossi, which is also not perfect, but is functional and affordable, and I am in favor of KEL-TECs, for the same reason. Being able to afford to buy a firearm is a good thing, and as long as you are OK with the quality you are getting, you don't have to go broke buying the firearms you want.

Most of the guys who blather on about MIL-SPEC this and SEALs are using that, and, "If Delta don't use it, I won't either," do three things with their $2,500 ARs: 1.) They fondle them while posting about them on gun forums. 2.) They post pictures of them laying on the carpet next to their fungus-filled toenails. 3.) They take them to the range and shoot a mag or two through them once a year.

Have to replace that cheap red dot next.

I was wanting to suggest this, but I am careful about bringing up any criticism of the cheap optics because some people really get their feelings hurt. I would recommend the Mepro M21. http://idfcarbine.com/optics/meprolight-m21/