Re: .357 Deer Loads

kmittleman · Post by **kmittleman** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:04 am

Hi all,

I think I may be able to finally hunt with my 1894c this season. I know this is old hat for many here, but I want to make a good choice in the Bullets I use. I plan on using either a Hornady 158gr FP XTP or a 185 gr Beartooth WFNGC. Which one do you all think would be better?

Best,

Kevin

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:12 am

.

IDK, having never using either.

I just used Remington 158gr JSP's, and was never disappionted.

.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:59 am

I have had very good results with the Hornady XTP bullets in bot 44 and 45 caliber so I assume the 357 version would be similar for "Extreme Terminal Performance".

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:00 pm

I don't hunt with my .357, but if I did:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/671546 ... -box-of-20

Or, the handloaded equivalent....

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:45 pm

I use the Buffalo Bore 180gr WFN or my handload equivalent. 1850fps or thereabouts from my 20" Rossi. It shoots/hits like a 30-30, and is still brutal out to 110 yds ( longest drt for me with the .357 )

I have 5 deer down to that load, from 35 yds to 110 yds. It's my first choice, followed by the Federal listed by Blaine or the Federal 180gr Premium JHP.

I would expect the Beartooth to be equivalent to the Buffalo Bore or just between the Federal or Buffalo Bore. That's the one I would pick of the two you list.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:18 pm

I like that beartooth bullet. It goes 1700+fps from my trapper length winchester. As OI mentioned, plenty good medicine. I have not shot deer with that load, but I did kill a couple with a 200gr keith swc from a 4" Smith and don't recommend that load.

IDK about the other one you mention, but the guys who seem to like it know what they know.

good hunting, hope you make meat

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:04 pm

I have always used Federal's 180gr Hollowpoint. Killed quite a few deer with it.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:26 pm

I've killed a half-dozen medium sized whitetails using the American Eagle 158gr JSP.

Longest shot for that cartridge was just inside 100yds.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:28 am

I've hunted plenty with my single shot 357 mag carbine over the years and the plain old 158 grain JSP has never let me down. I've also used the 160 grain Speer with same results. I have some hardcast 180 grain Keith style bullets to reload but haven't made the time though I'd prefer the 180s on larger boars.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:51 am

Either one of the bullets you mention will do just fine. I would shoot both, and go with whichever is more accurate at max velocity. I cast a WFN 185 gr. and load it to 1800 fps. It kills deer just fine. Deer aren't hard to kill creatures, really I think any 158 gr. or heavier non hollow point bullet will do.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:17 pm

Are there still two types of xtp?

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:32 pm

use the 185 Beartooth, a jacketed bullet cant stand in the shadow of a HCGC FP, they mushroom and loose penetration whereas a HC FP creates a cavitation bubble when it encounters liquid and flesh that acts like a SP and makes a heck of a wound channel Ive gotten over 4' of travel with a 357 180 WFN Buffalo Bore on a cougar brisket to rearend pass thru 1300 fps from a 3"pistol. I use hod. lil'gun for my woods defense load in the 3" for 1300 fps and 2400 for a hunting load in my longer barrels . The original 1935 load that Doug Wesson used for grizzly on down were 158 bullets pushed with 2400 in a S&W 8 3/4" pistol for 1515 fps. danny
If you havent read them yet Paco has a article on this site about the 357
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... rature.htm
and Jim T
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:35 pm

BigSky56 wrote:use the 185 Beartooth, a jacketed bullet cant stand in the shadow of a HCGC FP, they mushroom and loose penetration whereas a HC FP creates a cavitation bubble when it encounters liquid and flesh that acts like a SP and makes a heck of a wound channel Ive gotten over 4' of travel with a 357 180 WFN Buffalo Bore on a cougar brisket to rearend pass thru 1300 fps from a 3"pistol. I use hod. lil'gun for my woods defense load in the 3" for 1300 fps and 2400 for a hunting load in my longer barrels . The original 1935 load that Doug Wesson used for grizzly on down were 158 bullets pushed with 2400 in a S&W 8 3/4" pistol for 1515 fps. danny
If you havent read them yet Paco has a article on this site about the 357
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... rature.htm
and Jim T
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

This.

Thanks for the specs. That is the load data I use.

Hawkins · Post by **Hawkins** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:35 am

I was interested in some of the same bullets from a revolver on small Florida whitetail, so I posted a question to Hornady tech support and got the following reply. I have zero experience with any of these, just passing along the company's response, for what it's worth:

Me: I'm considering using either your 158 grain or 180 grain .357 XTP bullets in a revolver for hunting small whitetail deer. Would either or both of these bullets be suitable? At what velocity range can I expect adequate expansion without blowing up on bones? Thank you!

Hornady: The Terminal Impact Velocity range of those two bullets is, 158 grain HP 700 to 1400, flat point (FP) 1150 to 1800 and the 180 grain HP 900 to 1700. If it were me I would use the 158 grain Hollow point unless you are using a 357 Maximum or similar cartridge then the 180 would be appropriate.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:41 pm

I've shot over fifty deer with the .357mag and most were shot with Hornady 158g XTP bullets. I've shot a half dozen with the 180g XTP. I've shot most with the handgun and IIRC, seven with the lever gun. I strongly suggest using the 158g XTP over the 180g. You will get better expansion with the 158g from a handgun. In the rifle, either will work fine. The added velocity from the rifle allows the 180g to expand quite well. FWIW, you'll get very few pass throughs with the HP bullets and about fifty percent with the JSP bullets shooting side to side through the rib cage. I've never lost a deer hit with the .357mag, but I've never had a bad hit either. It's a very adequate caliber if the shot is placed well (true for any caliber). Good luck.

FLINT · Post by **FLINT** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:35 pm

Nath wrote:Are there still two types of xtp?

not sure about .357 cal, but there are two types for the .452. standard is for .45colt and mag for .454. so I imagine there could be the equivalent for the 38sp / 357mag. definitely wouldn't want to use a bullet designed for the 38sp in a 357 rifle with hot loads!

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:49 pm

There are XTP hollow points and soft points in .357

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:01 pm

jmiller wrote:There are XTP hollow points and soft points in .357

That's it, the soft points were deep penetrators. The HP ones would burst quite a bit even on fox's!

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:19 pm

Nath wrote:
jmiller wrote:There are XTP hollow points and soft points in .357
That's it, the soft points were deep penetrators. The HP ones would burst quite a bit even on fox's!

I never had any "burst" using the 158g or the 180g JhP on deer. I could see where the 110 or 125g might be a little too explosive if driven to extreme velocity. I've shot deer using the 158g and the 180g JHP out of my .357Max rifle with no problems on deer and they're really scooting along out of that gun.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:56 pm

jmiller wrote:
Nath wrote:
jmiller wrote:There are XTP hollow points and soft points in .357
That's it, the soft points were deep penetrators. The HP ones would burst quite a bit even on fox's!
I never had any "burst" using the 158g or the 180g JhP on deer. I could see where the 110 or 125g might be a little too explosive if driven to extreme velocity. I've shot deer using the 158g and the 180g JHP out of my .357Max rifle with no problems on deer and they're really scooting along out of that gun.

My terminology is flawed, I meant out of my 94 there was clear expansion.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:02 pm

I think the bullet on the right is a 158 xtp HP. I forget what I dug it out of.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:17 pm

This is a 158xtp HP at 100 yds through a crow and found in sand.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:30 pm

Nath wrote:I think the bullet on the right is a 158 xtp HP. I forget what I dug it out of.

Almost all the ones I've recovered out of deer look like the one on the left. I've found the 180g XTP's don't expand as much, probably because they aren't going as fast. I've found the 180's penetrate a bit better though. All in all, the 158g ones will pretty much put a big hurt on an adult white tail deer. I've never found a more accurate bullet out of any of my 357mags. I've found a few that shot almost as well but not better, and the Hornady XTP's have always been pretty easy to get. Even with the "shortage". I keep several thousand on hand all the time.

missionary5155 · Post by **missionary5155** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:01 pm

Greetings
If your deer are generally 150 pounds then either one would be my choice.
In east ILLinois mature does are 180 pounds and can be more. Bucks even larger. I would not use any bullet less that a 180 grainer. Every corn cruncher lost to a .357 in our area I tried to help find was hit with a 158 grainer. They do not always exit. They expand and get lodged under the far side skin or less and entrance holes just do not leak well to often. 180's exit and exit holes leak out leaving a visible trail.
My son just bought a 357 Rossi and the lightest bullet I will work with will be a 180. Lee now has a 200 grain flat nose and we may go with that. Well placed wound channels with exit holes are the best formula I know that consistently put back straps on the platter.
Mike in Peru

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:16 am

Mike, good info. Best wound channel I ever found was the one that went in one ear and out the other. My favorite shot.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:49 am

this is really a very good thread, especially since I just deer hunt with .357mag. I have both a Malin 1894c (one of the last from Conn, with the "JM" stamp) and a Ross M92. I went to the .357 because I only hunt Mule Deer once a year, but I like shooting the .357mag all year long... :)

1018111258a.jpg

1018111257.jpg

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:17 am

missionary5155 wrote:Greetings
If your deer are generally 150 pounds then either one would be my choice.
In east ILLinois mature does are 180 pounds and can be more. Bucks even larger. I would not use any bullet less that a 180 grainer. Every corn cruncher lost to a .357 in our area I tried to help find was hit with a 158 grainer. They do not always exit. They expand and get lodged under the far side skin or less and entrance holes just do not leak well to often. 180's exit and exit holes leak out leaving a visible trail.
My son just bought a 357 Rossi and the lightest bullet I will work with will be a 180. Lee now has a 200 grain flat nose and we may go with that. Well placed wound channels with exit holes are the best formula I know that consistently put back straps on the platter.
Mike in Peru

Here's why I like the 185+ Hard Cast Gas Check bullet:

This was dug out of the offside shoulder of a seer hit at a dead run 110yds away... AFTER it blew the onside ham to hamburger.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:26 am

Lyman made a 215 grain SWC GC mold around 20 or so years ago for the silhouette guys to use in the 357 MAX . Someone gave me one of them when I started casting for use in the 35 REM . I never cared for it in the 35 but it shot very well in a Marlin 1894CP 16 1/2" and a Marlin 1894CB 24" .

If I still had either of those guns and was so inclined to shoot a deer with a 357 thats the bullet I'd use cast from straight wheel weights , but I'd keep the shots inside 75 yards .

About that same time Nosler made a Partition bullet of 180 grains specifically for the 357 and of course I bought a box . They shot very nicely in the little 1894CP . But like many other things I liked in the component line THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANYMORE !

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:29 pm

If you don't handload, the Buffalo Bore 180 is my 1st choice. I also like the Federal and Winchester 180's. But, as others have pointed out, the 158Gr JSP is tough to beat. Good Hunting!