Powder or propellant?

[Chuck 100 yd]

There is only one powder ,Black powder, everything else is propellant. What say you???

[Blaine]

I don't think I've ever heard it called smokeless propellant....

[Ray Newman]

Blaine: technically speaking, smokeless is a label/called a propellant.

AS an aside, in some of the old magazines and reloading information from back in the late 1880's/early 100's, I have read that smokeless powder was called "White Powder" and some of the less-smoke/semi smokeless powders (actually low pressure and case filling Black Powder equivalent powders) were called "Brown Powders".

And if memory serves me, some of the US artillery/naval gun powders were also called "Brown Powders."

[harry]

There is only one powder ,Black powder, everything else is propellant. What say you???

So I guess your next step would be to sue the propellant manufactures for miss labeling their products.

[Hawkeye2]

Just so long as you don't start calling it "Holy Black"

[Blaine]

So...from now on, it's rocket powder?

[Daisyman]

In the song "The battle of New Orleans" a verse goes " We fired our cannons till the barrel melted down ,so we grabbed an alligator and fought another round. We filled his head with cannon balls and "propellanted" his behind, and when we set the "propellant" off the gator lost his mind"" Propellant??? I rest my case!!

Of course, now that I think about it, I guess it wasn't smokeless they were using.

[Chuck 100 yd]

During the battle of New Orleans there was only one type of powder available. Different granulations , yes ,but all black.

[Buck Elliott]

The big 16-inch guns on Iowa-class battleships were loaded with what the Navy called "black powder", which was actually a form of cordite, in chunks the size of shotgun shells or so, but was Black in color, and contained in consumable silk bags.
Smokeless powders for small arms are listed as 'propellent powders', which covers both bases..

[Old No7]

In the song "The battle of New Orleans" a verse goes " We fired our cannons till the barrel melted down ,so we grabbed an alligator and fought another round. We filled his head with cannon balls and "propellanted" his behind, and when we set the "propellant" off the gator lost his mind"" Propellant??? I rest my case!!

Of course, now that I think about it, I guess it wasn't smokeless they were using.

"Powder" gets my vote too -- for what it's worth.

As Daisyman said, the lyrics from Johnny Horton's song better that way! (See below...)

Old No7

The Battle of New Orleans

In 1814 we took a little trip,
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip.
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans,
And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans.

[Chorus:]
We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin',
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

We looked down the river and we see'd the British come.
And there must have been a hundred of 'em beatin' on the drum.
They stepped so high and they made the bugles ring.
We stood by our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.

[Repeat Chorus]

Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise
If we didn't fire our muskets 'til we looked 'em in the eye
We held our fire 'til we see'd their faces well.
Then we opened up with squirrel guns and really gave 'em ... well

[Repeat Chorus]

Yeah, they ran through the bryars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.**

We fired our cannon 'til the barrel melted down.
So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.
We filled his head with cannon balls, and powdered his behind
And when we touched the powder off, the gator lost his mind.

[Repeat Chorus]

Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles,
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

[Daisyman]

Just doesn't have that ring to it, does it?

[Ji in Hawaii]

Once you try Black you never go back... or at least that's what I've heard. We can only get Pyrodex and Triple 7 here so no first-hand experience here.

Okay, so are Pyrodex and Triple 7 powders or propellants?

[Blaine]

Looking around, I seem to see that propellent is inside the projectile, like a rocket engine, and powder is in a case, or breech.....

[Old Ironsights]

SOmewhere around here I have the DOT classifications (HEY GRIFF!) but Black Powder is classified as an Explosive Compound (powder) and Smokeless Powder is classified as a (usually extruded) Propellant.

IIRC Each has to be labeled differently according to DOT (and stored differently according to NFA (when kept in quantity))

[Larkbill]

Ya'll need to go outside and play with some three dimensional toys. I mean really, what are you going to do when winter really gets here?

[Old Ironsights]

Ya'll need to go outside and play with some three dimensional toys. I mean really, what are you going to do when winter really gets here?

Blow things up in the snow when there is no Red Flag hazard?

[Terry Murbach]

I think the original thought on this post is correct. Black Powder is a " powder "[ it all goes BOOM now ! ] and smokleless is a Propellent as it burns progressively.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Thank you Terry.

[mikld]

Tomato, Tomahto. Big deal... 'Corse I ain't got no eddycatin on proper Engliss an jes restuff my catrids wif whut ever I ken find..

[Old Ironsights]

It's not an issue of "English" it"s an issue of energetics.

As a Firefighter I would much rather enter a burning room that contained TWICE as much Smokeless Propellant than Black Powder.

No question.

Black Powder is an Explosive Compound that burns in small quantities or without containment (making it useful in firearms) - but will explode without containment if stored in enough quantity.

Smokeless powder required controlled containment to generate enough pressure to create a strictly mechanical explosion. I.e
Even a big honkin pile of it isn't an explosive threat no matter how much heat is around.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Sulphur+ Poassium Nitrate + Charcoal = Powder
Anything else = Propellant.

[Griff]

Heck, it'll all be academic in a few days... looks like we need to go back over and save the French from themselves again... I believe that it's all a propellant when used for ejected a projectile from a case or barrel. Just how big can it get, and still be classed a "powder" is for that Webster's guy. Or, how much blue is there before it turns from "powder blue" to just "blue"?

[jeepnik]

I don't care what you call it. Me, I'm going to stuff some bullets into the clip for my 1911 and go shooting. No, that should be stuff some cartridges into the magazine for my 1911A1. Gesh, does it matter what we call it as long as we all understand what is meant? Isn't that the purpose of the language, to convey thoughts and ideas?

[Griff]

I don't care what you call it. Me, I'm going to stuff some bullets into the clip for my 1911 and go shooting. No, that should be stuff some cartridges into the magazine for my 1911A1. Gesh, does it matter what we call it as long as we all understand what is meant? Isn't that the purpose of the language, to convey thoughts and ideas?

Silly you... thinking this all has some importance... Just don't callin' my .45's "Long" Colts... they're just 45Colts, as opposed to Colt 45s... which is entirely another matter.

[Old Ironsights]

Sadly(?) it does make a BIG difference to TPTB, and not so sadly it makes a HUGE difference to guys like me who crawl into burning buildings.

20 lbs Smokeless Propellant is unlikely to kill me. 6 1lb cans of Goex OTOH...

[Blaine]

Sulphur+ Poassium Nitrate + Charcoal = Powder
Anything else = Propellant.

Take a powder.

[claybob86]

It's all fuel. The gases generated by the burning thereof is the propellant.

[cas]

Most black powder isn't powder and most smokeless powder isn't powder.




And while it's a fact that all blueberries are blue, not all blue berries are blueberries.

[Buck Elliott]

It's been Smokeless Powder far at least as long as I've been aware of it, which has been at least 70 years.. I'm not gonna change now. ..

[jeepnik]

And then there are those that call anything smokeless Cordite. I don't think they've made that in nigh on a century. Or another one I've heard used incorrectly is "gun cotton".

[Blaine]

Hodgdon, and all the rest call it powder.... Nuff Said. They leave propellent to NASA.....

[BigSky56]

its all propellant; black, cocoa, semi smokeless and smokeless gunpowder. black or any other powder does not detonate as its a low order explosive (subsonic speed) it deflagrates = a hot grain ignites a cold grain whereas with a high order detonation all the product goes. Yes black seems like it will explode if contained so will a couple of three smokeless powders, the higher the nitro content the better the results. danny

[Chuck 100 yd]

Danny is right on.

[Blaine]

Danny is right on.

Since when did facts ever get in the way of a good internet opinion?

[JohndeFresno]

All stuff ground small go boom in barrel me call gunpowder. Propellant have too many syllables to pronounce.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Danny is right on.

Since when did facts ever get in the way of a good internet opinion?

'Twas all in fun fellas. It does,however, prove one thing,there are a bunch of people here with time on their hands.

[Blaine]

Danny is right on.

Since when did facts ever get in the way of a good internet opinion?

'Twas all in fun fellas. It does,however, prove one thing,there are a bunch of people here with time on their hands.

[Chuck 100 yd]

[Old Ironsights]

Stop being Corny...