UNIQUE Still Rules!

[JohndeFresno]

Article:
"Unique The Universal Powder," John Haviland, Handloader Magazine Issue Nr 305 (December-January 2017)

Haviland predictably talks about the wide range of uses for this powder which was developed in 1899.

There are also some surprises in the article. What really surprised me - pages 48-49:
"One-third of a .45-70 case remains empty even with a long 405-grain cast bullet seated over 11.0, 12.0 and 13.0 grains of Unique. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook suggests using a Dacron wad to fill that vacant space to position such light amounts of powder against the primer to reduce velocity spread. I ignored that advice and just loaded those three weights of powder under RCBS 45-405-RN bullets. Extreme velocity spread was a low 18 fps for five shots with 11.0 and 13.0 grains and 44 fps for 12.0 grains. In comparison, 13.0 grains of Trail Boss powder fairly well filled a .45-70 case seated under a 405-grain bullet, yet extreme spread was 80 fps."

From reading the article, it does seem that Unique is not very position sensitive, and is quite consistent even in big cases. Chalk that up for yet another reason, perhaps the main one, not to bother with that expensive Trail Boss.

I expected the piece to be a ho-hum repeat of what Unique is and does. This was a great article, with several useful shotgun, rifle and handgun loads.

[Grizz]

good info. I better get some.

mainly use 2400 and 322

what are the 405gr velocities over unique from the article?

thanks

[JohndeFresno]

Several loads for handgun, long gun, and shotgun - 67, if I counted correctly. Good stuff. For the 405'ers -
RCBS 45-405-FN, 18.5 inch barrel, COAL 2.525"
Charge / MV / 3-shot 100-yard group
11.0 gr 977 fps 1.63"
12.0 gr 1,028 fps 3.20"
13.0 gr 1,135 fps 1.94"

Also loads for 12, 16, 20 ga.;
Rifle loads of .223 Rem, .25-06, .270 Win., 7mm-08 Rem, .32-20, .30-30, .308 Win, .357 Magnum, .356 Win, .35 Whelen, .44-40 WCF;
Handgun loads of .32 H&R Mag, .38 Spcl, .357 Mag, .40 SW, .41 Mag, .44 Spcl, .44 Mag, .45 Auto

Many of these cast bullet loads. This issue is a saver.

[AJMD429]

Handloader Magazine Issue Nr 305 (December-January 2017)

Is that really the date/issue...? It is really strange how they date them for a couple months after they are printed. Never understood that...

Thanks for the info though.

I like a powder that isn't "position sensitive" and if possible not "temperature sensitive".

[JohndeFresno]

Doc, I have the printout in front of me from the issue that I just downloaded. That is the date on the magazine. Maybe I get the PDF issue as an online subscriber before it hits the newsstands.

The article also explains that Unique is hydrophobic, so less sensitive to water than many other powders are in addition to its being position insensitive.

[Sixgun]

John,
That's great info and info I have been trying to tell people for many years. If 11-13 grains behind any grain bullet in the 45-70 does not shoot well, it never will. I've sold countless rifles after trying out that load with dismal results. 6-7 grains......all loose in the case....will do the same for the 30-30, 32 spl, 32-40, 308, 30-06 and every in between. Using common sense, Unique behind ANY cast bullet in ANY sized case will produce excellent accuracy in the 800-1150 fps range (match velocity) and will do almost as good until around 14-1500. After that, pressures rise...and rise they will, so it's not a powder for inexperienced reloaders or reloaders who are tired, careless, stupid, drunk, or vote democratic.

I've used countless rifles for shooting around the house out to 150 meters using my backyard silencer and the only sound I hear is the smacking of the lead against the steel.

The same can be said of many handgun powders but I'm not getting into that.----6

[Grizz]

Several loads for handgun, long gun, and shotgun - 67, if I counted correctly. Good stuff. For the 405'ers -
RCBS 45-405-FN, 18.5 inch barrel, COAL 2.525"
Charge / MV / 3-shot 100-yard group
11.0 gr 977 fps 1.63"
12.0 gr 1,028 fps 3.20"
13.0 gr 1,135 fps 1.94"

Also loads for 12, 16, 20 ga.;
Rifle loads of .223 Rem, .25-06, .270 Win., 7mm-08 Rem, .32-20, .30-30, .308 Win, .357 Magnum, .356 Win, .35 Whelen, .44-40 WCF;
Handgun loads of .32 H&R Mag, .38 Spcl, .357 Mag, .40 SW, .41 Mag, .44 Spcl, .44 Mag, .45 Auto

Many of these cast bullet loads. This issue is a saver.

Thanks John. I'll probably buy that magazine. That load I highlighted is close to the muzzle velocity of the 405gr bullet from my 44 redhawk with 2400. I'm wanting to get it up to the 1028fps zone.

My notes say that the 405gr at 900fps has a tko of 22.4, and at 1000fps the tko is 24.9. It's a hot shot even at slow speeds, regardless of how it's launched.

[3leggedturtle]

Yep Unique and WW's will make anything shoot good and make dinner..

[3leggedturtle]

Except for Nath and Gamekeeper they seem to need BP and pure lead for their smoothbores! Todd/3leg

[3855]

Hey Sixgun

Can you give us a breakdown of the makeup of your silencer and how effective it is? I am been considering building one of those or something similar for a long time.

Thanks,
3855

[Sixgun]

Copy that 38-55 but...............first......you have to send me that extra heavy barreled takedown set trigger deluxe 1886 you snagged a couple of years ago.

The one in the upper picture is very, very simple. The only thing I did was take a section of 4' fencing (horse/cow) and layed a section of egg crate foam rubber facing inward.........wire tied it to keep it from unraveling. I wrapped it in a funnel shape with the obvious small end towards the front................after doing this, I wrapped the whole thing in an old electric water heater insulating pad and duct taped the whole mess together and made a 10 cent stand to hold it up.

It's dead quiet with target velocity 22 but could use either a little bit more length or insulation with 30-30' 45-70, etc, but still quiet enough for the neighbors who are a hundred yards away not to hear it.

I made another one 20 years ago that was constructed just like a real silencer.....with plywood baffles every 6 inches with insulation between the baffles. That worked great but it took me a weekend to make and eventually rotted away. The other took me about an hour to make.-----6




This is the old one. The whole unit slides into the 55 gal. plastic drum.

[marlinman93]

Unique has been around since Moses wore sandals! One of my favorite powders for most of my old guns, and works very well without any fillers! I hate fillers, and wont use a powder that requires them. Too much chance of ringing a chamber, or damaging a fine old gun!
I load most of my old guns to around 1250-1350 fps, regardless of caliber, and Unique is a great powder for this range in all sizes of cartridges from very small .32 Long to big .45-70 cases.
I've heard many reloaders poo-poo Unique because they say you can easily double or even triple charge a case. I say if they're that incompetent they shouldn't be allowed to reload with ANY powder other than maybe black powder.

[Sixgun]

Well said Marlinman----6

[earlmck]

Yes, Unique is a really useful powder for us levergunners and the toys we feed. But it has been replaced on my shelf by Hodgen's Universal, which is virtually identical in character in my loads but meters better. My thanks to "Bill in Oregon" for steering me to the Universal.

[JohndeFresno]

...I hate fillers, and wont use a powder that requires them. Too much chance of ringing a chamber, or damaging a fine old gun!...

Perzactly.

I've never had that happen to me, nor do I want to; so reading about that potential problem has led to me either making sure that a load is over 70% fill (using QuickLoad data) unless I know that a powder is position insensitive. Now I will be using more Unique - the one I use the most for handguns, anyway - in my various loads.

So far, Unique has been scarce on the local shelves, but Universal is usually at Sportsman's Warehouse. Thanks to info from earlmck which was a tip from Bill in Oregon which was a tip from... anyway; I'm gonna get some of that stuff.

[marlinman93]

Another powder that is very close to Unique is Win. 231. Lots of my old loading manuals list nearly identical charges for Unique and W231 for all sorts of pistol loads. It shows a bit hotter on the burn rate chart vs. Unique, but for pistol size cases is another excellent alternative. Unsure how available it is, as I have an 8 lb. keg, so haven't checked for it in quite some time. My Hornady manual shows .3-.5 grains lower charges with W231 vs. Unique for equal bullet weight, and velocities. So slightly more economical than Unique.

[JohndeFresno]

Thank you, MarlinMan. I have heard about 231 for several years, but never seem to find it at the local stores. But if it is close to Unique and I happen to see it, I will snag it.

Incidentally, I am finishing my final inventory of components, which others may wish to do.

We really don't know what is going to happen in November, and California is now voting on a bill that will require a $50 licensing fee (Yearly? Don't know) in order to purchase ammunition, with restrictions as to how much you can buy in a given time period. I suspect that it will pass here in this state. Y'all know why, and I don't want to move this to the "Politics" sub-forum.

And of course there is this constant attempt to pass legislation to outlaw all online purchases of firearms, ammo and ammunition components. It may be now or never to get all of your stuff together.

Unique - Universal - W231

[3855]

Sixgun,

Thanks for the info on the silencer. I am going to put something together. Neighbors are not too close but I sure can hear them when they touch something off. They have never complained about my noise but I want to keep them happy.

Wish you and I did live closer...., maybe we could do a little horse trading now and then on some old pieces.

Enjoy that retirement.

[marlinman93]

Thank you, MarlinMan.

We really don't know what is going to happen in November, and California is now voting on a bill that will require a $50 licensing fee (Yearly? Don't know) in order to purchase ammunition, with restrictions as to how much you can buy in a given time period.

Sounds like it's time to move out!
I was doing some reloading yesterday, and digging through my powder storage. My one pound cans are all in a 4 drawer file cabinet, but kegs are stuffed here and there, wherever I find space in my reloading/gun room. I stumbled across two kegs of unopened powder I didn't know I even had! One was a 4 lb. keg of SR4759, and the other a 8 lb. keg of W231!
I ran out of SR4759 a couple years ago, and it's not made anymore, so switched to 4227. Now I've got a halfway decent supply again! Plus lots of W231 to help make my powder go farther!

[JohndeFresno]

Sounds like it's time to move out!

Sure wish I could. It's a long story that I've told over and over.

[Old Ironsights]

Handloader Magazine Issue Nr 305 (December-January 2017)

Is that really the date/issue...? It is really strange how they date them for a couple months after they are printed. Never understood that......

That's the "News Stand Date". A rag can't officially be sold on a newsstand before or after that publication mark.

Subscribers and others can get it before that date though.

[marlinman93]

Sounds like it's time to move out!

Sure wish I could. It's a long story that I've told over and over.

I understand. If my wife would go for it, I'd move out of Oregon. It's not as bad as Ca., but not much better!

[Catshooter]

Unique is a darn fine powder.

I went to buy some years ago and since the shop didn't have any I bought Univeral Clays. It's cleaner, meters easier and is flash-suppressed (not sure that matters, but what the hell). I've used it in the 45-70 and gotten chronograph readings that made me think the dang was broke! Like 1208,1209,1208,1208,1211 and so on.

Six is right; if the bullet is sized right and the rifle won't shoot with Unique, (or Universal) sell it.


Cat

[southfork]

I wish the article on Unique powder had indicated how many grains of that powder to use in 44-40 with 200 grain cast bullets, when loaded for original 1873 Winchester rifles. I have in the back of my mind that 6 or someone suggested a load that they use in old, vintage 44-40 guns, but can't remember what it was.

[JohndeFresno]

I wish the article on Unique powder had indicated how many grains of that powder to use in 44-40 with 200 grain cast bullets, when loaded for original 1873 Winchester rifles. I have in the back of my mind that 6 or someone suggested a load that they use in old, vintage 44-40 guns, but can't remember what it was.

There is an old entry by Telegraphist and others (2011) that I archived from this forum - you can see the actual thread because the link is still good:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 98&start=0
Per Telegraphist:
"If it was my old gal, I would not use it [referring to Red Dot], would stick to a 200g lead RNFP backed by a charge of 13 to 13.5g of Alliant 2400 which would closely duplicate the old blackpowder loading in pressure and velocity. Fast smokeless powders I would not recommend in an original. Unique would probably be the fastest smokeless I would contemplate using in an original, even then would not go above 8g with a 200g RNFP. Others may differ in their opinion."

I ran a check on QuickLoad. I must admit that this old caliber is out of my comfort zone, since its case was different than today's brass, it was black powder, and so on. So I present the ballistic prediction for QL with no guarantees or validation; merely as something for you to reference:

SAAMI Max psi listed at 15954 psi per QuickLoad
Platform statistics using 1895 Marlin; 20 inch barrel
44-40 (.428 caliber) RCBS FN 44-200-FN (200 gr.)
Statistics for .650 in. bullet, Overall Cartridge Length 1.590 in.; Seating depth .365 in.

Alliant 2400 13.5 gr. - 1255 fps;
57.8% fill, 71.54% propellant burned, 9843 max psi

QuickLoad says that SAAMI for this old boiler is 15954 psi Max, but there seems to be conflicting data from other sources regarding this old round. I remember that Winchester loaded a high-speed .44-40 cartridge for a while, then discontinued it because (I have read) it was only intended for rifles and made revolvers into portable bombs. Maybe that has something to do with the different max psi listings.

Wikipedia, for what it is worth, echoes this muzzle velocity as the historical load for a 200 gr. bullet - 1245 fps - see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44-40_Winchester

Step chart shows, among other listings -
12.96gr = 1208fps, 8994 psi (e.g. 13.0 gr.)
14.04gr = 1302fps, 10747 psi (e.g. 14.0 gr.)

[marlinman93]

I wish the article on Unique powder had indicated how many grains of that powder to use in 44-40 with 200 grain cast bullets, when loaded for original 1873 Winchester rifles. I have in the back of my mind that 6 or someone suggested a load that they use in old, vintage 44-40 guns, but can't remember what it was.

8.0 grs. of Unique with the 200 gr. cast bullet is only about 800 fps, and will do nicely in most older rifles or pistols.

[mikld]

I read the article and was happy to see the "Dirty Unique" fallacy dispelled. I never had a problem with "dirty" Unique and it was the second powder I purchased (1970) that I've been using since. But there will still be reloaders that won't use Unique because "it's too dirty". Cool, more for me!

[Borregos]

I wish the article on Unique powder had indicated how many grains of that powder to use in 44-40 with 200 grain cast bullets, when loaded for original 1873 Winchester rifles. I have in the back of my mind that 6 or someone suggested a load that they use in old, vintage 44-40 guns, but can't remember what it was.

With 7.0gr Unique and a 205gr Saeco I get 987fps from my Marlin 1889 and 1080fps from my Marlin 1894.

[JohndeFresno]

...there will still be reloaders that won't use Unique because "it's too dirty". Cool, more for me!

Absolutely! Everyone quit buying Unique. It's nasty and politically incorrect. Leave it for me.

I forgot that the thrust of this article is about UNIQUE. Love that stuff.

But now - that 8 grs. Unique - does it stay at a safe enough pressure for the original .44-40 firearms? Quick Load seems to indicate that this is a hot load:
14021psi, towards the Max, 1306 fps out of a 20" barrel

In the aforementioned thread, Mike D. liked the high end of 8 grains.

But Sixgun said:

"...Mr Bobby--get some lead slugs and push 'em out with 6 gr. of Bullseye or 7.5 of Unique. This is America and lead slugs are about everywhere. .429's will do just fine. I use .431's out of a 1883 produced 1873. -----------------------Sixgun"

[JohndeFresno]

Here is an article, written by John Taffin which "Guns Magazine" uploaded to the Internet - therefore a public domain document. Due to the problem saving the images from their server, I downloaded it, converted the photos, and placed it on my server as a PDF file.

Reloading the 44_40 JTaffin.pdf - Click on:
https://app.box.com/s/wvk55ax4aj3m9es3h46amd5n70ot3gu3

You have to look inside the text, but it discusses Unique as a load, among others.