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Well I just won a WW Greener Grade F 10 gauge 2 7/8" chamber 30" fluid steel barreled gun . Has the Greener safety on the side that I don't really care for but it has fluid steel supposedly BRIGHT bores ! Barrels appear to need a re rust blueing but that's not an issue to me . Someone added a Pachmayer White Line awhile back . The pics are not mine but rather the sellers GB pictures !
Gun was made between 1905 and 1915 as near as I can ascertain . I've been after a Parker EH or NH 10 gauge with factory 28" or shorter barrels and wasn't looking for a Greener even though I have a rather nice 12 gauge Greener . But this one came along . So what the heck !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Boy that's nice! Good wood, Nitro proof, nice engraving. Hope you kill some geese with it!
Looks like it has been apart a few times from the screw heads.
BlaineG wrote:Amazing preservation of wondrous workmanship...
+ 1 .
I had a shotgun with a similar side safety once, always found it a bit awkward.
Yes my sentiments exactly on the side safety . I have a Greener DH40 12 gauge with the more conventional tang safety that I used a lot from about 14 unti I was 35ish .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
GunnyMack wrote:Boy that's nice! Good wood, Nitro proof, nice engraving. Hope you kill some geese with it!
Looks like it has been apart a few times from the screw heads.
Dunno about the geese I have my W&C Scott and a pair of Parker EH's all 10 gauge that I normally drag along for honkers . This gun will get patterned with my 0000 home cast buckshot as well as my home cast slugs . I assume this bad boy is choked kinda right , but so are my two EH guns and they both did nicely with the slugs , 0000 and 00000 .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
BlaineG wrote:Amazing preservation of wondrous workmanship...
I thought the condition of the wood was very good . But as I said earlier the barrels I think need to be reblued . The bores are supposed to be shiney and I think a good bit of the discoloration on the action may be dried oil/grease . One things for sure they'll have payment PDQ and hopefully it gets to me within 14 days .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Craftsmanship like that today would set you back 10-12 G's. Looking at some of the junk that's made recently makes me shudder when I see those 1/16" spaces between wood and metal.----6
1st. Gen. Colt SAA’s, 1878 D.A.45 and a 38-55 Marlin TD
My bucket-list, lotto, dream shotgun would be a presentation model 21 with all the barrel sets in an English Walnut with deep green velvet lining case...*sigh*
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
BlaineG wrote:My bucket-list, lotto, dream shotgun would be a presentation model 21 with all the barrel sets in an English Walnut with deep green velvet lining case...*sigh*
I've been fortunate enough to shoot several Model 21's belonging to other folks , never owned one myself . And of the 6 or 7 I've shot the one I really liked was a field grade 16 gauge skeet gun 26" English grip stock and a semi beaver tail forend . I ran a couple straight rounds with that shooting with the gun mounted then went 67 straight shooting low gun . That's the only 21 I ever tried to buy and to be totally honest that's the only one that felt good in my hands of those l was able to try .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
BlaineG wrote:My bucket-list, lotto, dream shotgun would be a presentation model 21 with all the barrel sets in an English Walnut with deep green velvet lining case...*sigh*
I've been fortunate enough to shoot several Model 21's belonging to other folks , never owned one myself . And of the 6 or 7 I've shot the one I really liked was a field grade 16 gauge skeet gun 26" English grip stock and a semi beaver tail forend . I ran a couple straight rounds with that shooting with the gun mounted then went 67 straight shooting low gun . That's the only 21 I ever tried to buy and to be totally honest that's the only one that felt good in my hands of those l was able to try .
The closest I've been is on the other side of the glass....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Side by sides are the best looking shotguns in my opinion.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
BlaineG wrote:My bucket-list, lotto, dream shotgun would be a presentation model 21 with all the barrel sets in an English Walnut with deep green velvet lining case...*sigh*
I've been fortunate enough to shoot several Model 21's belonging to other folks , never owned one myself . And of the 6 or 7 I've shot the one I really liked was a field grade 16 gauge skeet gun 26" English grip stock and a semi beaver tail forend . I ran a couple straight rounds with that shooting with the gun mounted then went 67 straight shooting low gun . That's the only 21 I ever tried to buy and to be totally honest that's the only one that felt good in my hands of those l was able to try .
The closest I've been is on the other side of the glass....
One of the 21's I've shot was an engraved gold inlaid job that a customer brought in claiming light strikes . And it was a 12 gauge . So I took it to the range and shot 4 rounds with it . It was nice don't get me wrong but a 21 in a 12 gauge usually feels kinda clubby to me . But all shotguns have a different feel if you shoot skeet,trap,sporting or live birds a lot (or thats my opinion) . But I grew up shooting my Brit guns , Parker's , Fox's and LC Smith's ! And the feel to me is just different not bad but different .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
piller wrote:Side by sides are the best looking shotguns in my opinion.
You would be amazed in this day and age how many people my age or older "claim" they cannot shoot a SxS . Now granted they mostly grew up shooting pumps or semi auto's !
One friend thats in his mid 60's and been an avid shooter/hunter for many many years says he can't do it because he tries to look down each barrel . I suppose I'm just lucky that I can go from an O/U to a SxS or vice versa with no big difference in my % of hits .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
piller wrote:Side by sides are the best looking shotguns in my opinion.
You would be amazed in this day and age how many people my age or older "claim" they cannot shoot a SxS . Now granted they mostly grew up shooting pumps or semi auto's !
One friend thats in his mid 60's and been an avid shooter/hunter for many many years says he can't do it because he tries to look down each barrel . I suppose I'm just lucky that I can go from an O/U to a SxS or vice versa with no big difference in my % of hits .
I'm not a really good shotgun shooter, but I can hold my own with amateurs. When I used to show up with a 300 dollar Baikal SxS with chokes for sporting clays, or skeet the snobs would be amused. In clays I was good for around 60/100. Not that good, but it usually not the worst score in a field of expensive guns...
I can't take the light 12ga anymore. I have a South American 20ga double with fixed Improved Cyl, and Mod choke that shoots pretty good for me...(What's this "aiming" some speak of? I mount the gun, keep both eyes open, and look at the target...easy peazy)
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
It's all "mindset"...weather it be a levergun , pump or single shot.. the problem with SXS shotguns for target shooting is stock fit. I once took My Browning BSS 30" 12ga, put on a slip on recoil pad a strap on cheek piece to raise the comb. shot a 12 week trap league with it. gave some of the other shooters fit's the way it broke birds. the clay targets would look like they were "framed" by the barrels. no distraction at all..........but I really liked that shotgun.
The biggest thing is the older doubles have 'poor' stock geometry, now that's not a knock against the guns, but the stocks were just not designed properly. We have gotten taller as a whole so LOP is usually short, drop at comb/heel are too much and people just don't learn to shoot the gun.
My Redheaded Step Child( pics here, posts was Favorite Old Gun), an o/u that I built, I regulated it with slugs at 50 yards. Once the inletting was done, I'd shoot a slug from bottom barrel, go take a few passes with a rasp on the comb, shoot, repeat until I got it to POI that I wanted.
Looking at the pics of this Greener you can see how much drop it has, personally I couldn't hit targets well until I put a lot of ammo down range.
I just bought a CZ 410, the stock geometry is much flatter and I hope to transition from my Red Label 28 to the CZ without missing too many pheasants!
GunnyMack wrote:The biggest thing is the older doubles have 'poor' stock geometry, now that's not a knock against the guns, but the stocks were just not designed properly. We have gotten taller as a whole so LOP is usually short, drop at comb/heel are too much and people just don't learn to shoot the gun.
Looking at the pics of this Greener you can see how much drop it has, personally I couldn't hit targets well until I put a lot of ammo down range.
I just bought a CZ 410, the stock geometry is much flatter and I hope to transition from my Red Label 28 to the CZ without missing too many pheasants!
The drop at comb and heel on the older guns relates to the way wing shooters shot in that time period . They brought the gun up and when it touched their chin they tended to let fly . I suspect when this gun gets to me the drop at heel and comb won't be as much as you think . Generally a Parker of say pre 1900 is about 2" drop at the comb and about 3" at the heel . You're off base on LOP on these old guns , most all that come into my possession and haven't been f...ked with are 14-14 1/2" which is the same LOP most field guns are now . Also the Brits even in the early days tended to put less drop in the stock . Now with all that being said I have the good fortune to be able to pick up an 1880's Parker and go shoot a good score on the skeet or trap field and immediately follow that with say a Browning Superposed and do about the same .
Gun fit with a shotgun is important to a degree . Lots of folks get over wound on this . You need to remember if you can see it you should be able to hit it provided you have enough choke . Shooting in the mid 40's out of 50 on the trap field with a side by side field gun isn't that difficult . I've broken 48 , 49 or 50 several times with my old Parker VH 12 gauge 30" field gun . Breaking 48 , 49 or 50 on the skeet field with my old circa 1884 Parker Grade 2 hammer 10 gauge isn't that difficult either and that guns choked tight and tighter .
Now I will admit I have shot over 100,000 targets in practice , competition and in the field . But I don't shoot huge amounts anymore , but it's like riding a bicycle it come right back !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Exactly my point, the shooter NEEDS time behind the gun to learn it.
I have been a competitive Olympic trap shooter since the late 80's. I have shot Remington 3200's, miss them, Brownings, Beretta's and Perazzi's for competition. Again 10's of thousands of rounds and I can pick up just about any shotgun and hit with it. The average guy doesn't have the "memory" that we have as competitive shooters do.
I see it with the guys in my bird club, they miss more birds then the hit since they don't shoot enough.
To be consistent at breaking clay targets gun fit is everything. I bought a used Perazzi, yes I hit targets but after changing stocks multiple times and finding one that FIT me my scores went up instantly.
Face it, it's a learning curve, more the better!
Having not spent much time behind a double, being a Parker, Greener what have you I can say that I would be disappointed with my scores until I had at least 500 to a thousand rounds through it.
I have a CZ Ringneck 410 due in tomorrow, my plan is to shoot some clay birds to start my learning curve before I go try it on birds.
GunnyMack wrote:Exactly my point, the shooter NEEDS time behind the gun to learn it.
I have been a competitive Olympic trap shooter since the late 80's. I have shot Remington 3200's, miss them, Brownings, Beretta's and Perazzi's for competition. Again 10's of thousands of rounds and I can pick up just about any shotgun and hit with it. The average guy doesn't have the "memory" that we have as competitive shooters do.
I see it with the guys in my bird club, they miss more birds then the hit since they don't shoot enough.
To be consistent at breaking clay targets gun fit is everything. I bought a used Perazzi, yes I hit targets but after changing stocks multiple times and finding one that FIT me my scores went up instantly.
Face it, it's a learning curve, more the better!
Having not spent much time behind a double, being a Parker, Greener what have you I can say that I would be disappointed with my scores until I had at least 500 to a thousand rounds through it.
I have a CZ Ringneck 410 due in tomorrow, my plan is to shoot some clay birds to start my learning curve before I go try it on birds.
I suspect you're gonna find the LOP kinda long on your CZ we had one for awhile that was a 28 gauge and while it was shootsble mounted when you shot it low gun it was just long enough that you'd hang it going up . When I was doing the competitive thing I had a 14 5/8" lop on my krieghoff with a Monte Carlo and used that for both trap and skeet I'd just change barrels . With a field gun if it's much over 14 1/4" I'm going to hang it going up .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
The condition is a bit better then the way it looks in the sellers pictures . But my .730" home cast slugs are goona be a no go in this gun after all . The right barrel with calipers at the muzzle measures .720" and the left measures .715" . In my old Parkers the choke/muzzle aren't quite so tight , so the slug with a .010" mylar wrap worked pretty well . In this gun I'm not going to try it . Gun has a bit more drop then I thought , 1 7/8" at the comb and 3" at the heel . Length of pull is 14 1/8" and the gun weighs 10 pounds and 1 ounce on my postal scales !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
As to re blueing the barrels thats up in the air at the moment . And I think I'll make a decision after hunting seasons over . They could use it for sure , but I'm on the fence now that I've seen the gun . Seems rather strange that the rest of the gun is in such good shape and the barrels have a good amount of the blue gone browned etc . It's that way under the forearm as well which leads me to believe perhaps the barrels were put up wett a time or two or something of that sort although the bores are like mirrors .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
6pt, that is REAL nice! I think the barrels have probably just have the brown worn off.
I got my CZ, the LOP is good for me. Wood has good figure, nice case colors too.
Took it pheasant hunting yesterday, first time I shot it( been deer hunting). Claro put a blue rooster and the right barrel spoke! Dropped the bird, Claro made the retrieve and I dropped at the taxidermist this evening.
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GunnyMack wrote:6pt, that is REAL nice! I think the barrels have probably just have the brown worn off.
I got my CZ, the LOP is good for me. Wood has good figure, nice case colors too.
Took it pheasant hunting yesterday, first time I shot it( been deer hunting). Claro put a blue rooster and the right barrel spoke! Dropped the bird, Claro made the retrieve and I dropped at the taxidermist this evening.
Those barrels weren't browned they were blued .
Nice looking pup , rooster and CZ !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
I probably don't have to tell you this but if you decide to re blue the barrels, make sure to Belgian blue them. HOT salt blue could ruin the solder joints.
I love the case color, for its age there is still great color there. Really nice wood too! GREAT FIND!
Well tried my buckshot handloads in the old gun yesterday and today !
00000 not so great
0000 not any better
000 still not much
00 not to bad
0 very nice
I still wanna try #1 , #2 and #3 buck in it as well as my #1 Bismuth birdshot loads .
Sorry to say my home cast .730" slugs are a skoosh to large as they sit . I may make another sizer die and try to get them down to maybe .705" or so .
Well now those .730" slugs are to large as cast but the Lyman 525 grain Sabot slugs might work ok inside the SP-10 wad . Think I'll load six of those and see if that's any good !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
I know less than nothing about sxs shotguns, but I do know that John Wayne used Greener shotguns in Big Jake, so since I was a boy I assumed they were a good shotgun. Silly, I know, but there it is.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776 11B30
side by side shotguns and lever action rifles.........doesn't get much better.....the real classics.
I likes my leverguns well enough even though I only have four now . But I'm more inclined to like Mannlicher Schoenauer with my doubles . Although in the AM I was LAN on going out and taking this new Greener loaded with 0 buck and my 2001 444 loaded with LBT 433-400GC bullets !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
sore shoulder wrote:I know less than nothing about sxs shotguns, but I do know that John Wayne used Greener shotguns in Big Jake, so since I was a boy I assumed they were a good shotgun. Silly, I know, but there it is.
I've been around SxS guns since I arrived on this earth over 55 years ago . Granted I wasn't allowed to touch them the first eight or so years and I didn't shoot them until I was 14 . I bought my DH-40 12 gauge Greener when I was 14 as a matter of fact . But there were Parker's , Smith's and Fox's in our house ever since I arrived . So one couldn't help but pick it up . Matter of fact when I was younger I was told do not bring any pump or semi autos in the house unless it was a Browning A-5 . And that's the way it was , later in life when I was on the skeet/trap trail a few 1100/11-87's made their way in the house . But they had a purpose then , my pop was of the opinion why waste time looking at them when you could look at a SxS or nice O/U .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
I still want a Parker 8 gauge preferably hammerless . But the cost is very prohibitive to say nothing of getting all the stuff to load for one . Since the only readily available 8 gauge hills are the industrial ones you need to get extra tools to make these hulls usable . And getting Tom Armburst to changeover a MEC600JR , well he doesn't get in a rush . I suppose I'll just have to make do with 10's although an original Perker EH 10 that left the factory with 24" , 26" or 28" barrels would be okay . As well as a British paradox or fully rifled 10 bore double , but then that's in the same price range with an 8 gauge Parker if not more .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
