NEWBY with Lever questions...

[AlphaFox]

First, please excuse my ignorance of the search function and how to utilize it to get the results I am looking for. I didn't get back any results and after perusing the first 5 pages or so, so I can only assume that the question hasn't been posted.

I am really interested in a .44 magnum 16" carbine length lever-action rifle and want to ask a couple of questions to the forum members regarding any perceptible differences in accuracy, durability and quality of the following manufacturers.

Winchester cosmetically, the Winchester 94 is the most appealing to the eye to me. Does this translate to better quality?

Marlin- Of all the Marlins I really like the 1894 cowboy octagon barrel in the 20" length.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... 5Colt.aspx

Puma- I am familiar with the weird top bolt safety, Is it a problem or just ugly?

Is there any benefit to an octagon barrel over a round barrel?
Is one manufacturer’s action better than the other?
Is there any evidence that one is more accurate than the other?
What are your thoughts?

I am not opposed to other brands but I definitely want the most quality, accurate, and dependable rifle that can be had at a reasonable price.

Thank you for your time and patience with my questions.-AlphaFox

[Andrew]

Well first off WELCOME!

Second, I don't know. But, there are others here that would just dearly love to share there opinion with you. I beleive all the guns you cited would be good ones to get as far as qualitly.

Personaly I like the octagon barrelled guns of any make, but, I don't think that accuracy is improved with them.

[BenT]

Welcome.

First off the marlin 1894 and the Puma ( which is the Winchester 1892 design) were designed for pistol cartridges. The Win 1894 was designed for longer rifle cartridges and later changes were made to cycle the shorter cartridge. People who have used the Win will have to chime in if they have any problems with it cycling.

Puma's are imported by various companies and Quaility varies. Steve is the Puma repair master and he may respond with certain models that are better than others. I thought some of the later Puma ( which is made by Rossi) had to big of a bore . That could of been the 1892's made in Europe . So the 1892 clones you'll have to do your research. Go to http://www.stevesgunz.com/ . Steve does make a plug for the top bolt safety also.

Go to the home page http://www.leverguns.com/ and check under articles and there should be some good reading on the 44's .

Good Luck!

[Tycer]

Welcome! No such critter.

No real difference in quality - all are great guns.

A 16" 44 Magnum is a good choice for quick handling, longer barrels give a longer sight radius if your goal is itty bitty er groups with iron sights.

Barrel shape does not matter.

The John Moses Browning designed 1892 is the strongest of the three (that's yer Puma).

The top safety is a solution to a non-existent problem, but causes no problem. It can be replaced with a plug.
If you do get a Puma aka EMF aka Rossi get it from Steve, or at least his CD if your a competent smith. http://stevesgunz.com/

My thoughts......call Steve.

P.S. Some of the 44 Pumas had larger than normal bores. I believe that has been fixed with the current models.

[AlphaFox]

Thank you for the responses. Please keep them coming. -AF

[shawn_c992001]

I think with any you listed you'd be happy. The octogon barrels do tend to add a little weight if you're looking to save a few ounces and want a lighter carbine, but the heavier front end does help ME hold better off-hand and swing better on moving shots.

[Griff]

First, please excuse my ignorance of the search function and how to utilize it to get the results I am looking for. I didn't get back any results and after perusing the first 5 pages or so, so I can only assume that the question hasn't been posted.
I am really interested in a .44 magnum 16" carbine length lever-action rifle and want to ask a couple of questions to the forum members regarding any perceptible differences in accuracy, durability and quality of the following manufacturers.
Winchester cosmetically, the Winchester 94 is the most appealing to the eye to me. Does this translate to better quality?
Marlin- Of all the Marlins I really like the 1894 cowboy octagon barrel in the 20" length.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... 5Colt.aspx
Puma- I am familiar with the weird top bolt safety, Is it a problem or just ugly?
Is there any benefit to an octagon barrel over a round barrel?
Is one manufacturer’s action better than the other?
Is there any evidence that one is more accurate than the other?
What are your thoughts?
I am not opposed to other brands but I definitely want the most quality, accurate, and dependable rifle that can be had at a reasonable price.
Thank you for your time and patience with my questions.-AlphaFox

1st, welcome to the Forum. 2nd, we try, very hard at times, to refrain from profanity or abbreviations of same - it's a family oriented forum, and we'll discuss almost anything if done politely and with respect. Sometimes that's hard to do, but we strive for a respectable forum.
Now, to your questions: The search function doesn't seem to go back past the latest upgrade of the software. You can look on the "One Sticky" for instructions on how to do a "Google" search of the forum and you should get results that go WAY back. At least I have!
The Winchester 94 is a fine arm. However, for me personally it is a "rifle cartridge" gun. I had one of the 1st '94s made in .44Mag and while it worked, and was very accurate, (within the limitations of a short, squat, BC challenged projectile), it didn't like certain bullet shapes. Specifically full wadcutters and certain semi-wadcutter bullets. Others have had fine experiences with theirs. Cosmetically speaking I find the AE (Angle Eject) an abomination, but... it does serves a practical function. The latest models with their rebounding hammer are difficult to get a good trigger on, and that is essential for consistent accuracy IMO.
The Marlin is also a good gun, with a good company standing behind its product. Sometimes it seems as tho' their quality is "spotty", but they seem to take care of the ocassional one produced with a "lemony" tint to it.
The one I'm most partial to in pistol calibers is the Rossi. The "ugly" safety is just that, ugly, doesn't seem to get in the way unless one likes tang sights, and is easily removed. See: Steve's Gunz; he makes a filler to replace the lever. The Rossi will be rough and in need of an action job if purchased new. If purchased used, or even of older "new" stock, watch for bore diameters, they were running large. Steve has been in contact with them and apparently (as I understand it) this has been rectified in the latest shipments. Best to contact him and see if there is a serial number range or ??? to watch for. Steve is a good guy, a sponsor for this site, and often posts here.
It's my experience that given the same bore condition and without any other accuracizing done, the octagon barrel with be more accurate than a round barrel; a rifle configuation will be more accurate than a carbine configuration. Reasons are varied, but mostly due to barrel harmonics, the greater mass of the octagon is beneficial, the carbine barrel bands often exert pressures on the barrel differently over a string of shots due to heat and uneven contact. These can be rectified, but, it does take a little more work than simply free-floating the barrel. The rifle configuration also may benefit from some close scrutiny of the forend cap tenon and magazine cap screw fit.
Now, for the real kicker.... I don't think the .44 Mag is the best choice in a short, fat, BC challenged levergun cartridge. Certainly, it is powerful enough to be a contender to the .30-30 (a classic and undisputed KING of levergun cartridges - IMO - certainly in numbers produced). And, for reduced power you can run .44Specials thru the gun like a hot knife thru butter. But... again, IMO, you limit yourself needlessly in both configurations available, and the selection among both factory loadings and bullet designs if you reload. I'm a big proponent of the .45Colt cartridge in my Leverguns. The bullets available from the factory is less than stellar, but... when you reload, the list grows quite long, with bullets available for every fps category from the .45 ACP to the .45 Magnum. And in a Rossi 92 you can load these puppies up to 45 Mag performance; see The .45 Colt in Leverguns, and while you're there read Accurizing the LeverAction Rifle.

Again, welcome to the forum, and happy levergunnin'. Hope that helps.

[Ysabel Kid]

Welcome! No such critter as a new guy.

No real difference in quality - all are great guns.

A 16" 44 Magnum is a good choice for quick handling, longer barrels give a longer sight radius if your goal is itty bitty er groups with iron sights.

Barrel shape does not matter.

The John Moses Browning designed 1892 is the strongest of the three (that's yer Puma).

The top safety is a solution to a non-existent problem, but causes no problem. It can be replaced with a plug.
If you do get a Puma aka EMF aka Rossi get it from Steve, or at least his CD if your a competent smith. http://stevesgunz.com/

My thoughts......call Steve.

P.S. Some of the 44 Pumas had larger than normal bores. I believe that has been fixed with the current models.

+1 on Tycer's comments. And Welcome to the fire!!!

That hideous and worthless lawyer-contraption can be nicely removed by Steve. I had him do so on my Puma 92 in .45 Colt. He also shortened the barrel to 16 inches (this as before they came out with the shorter model), added a larger loop (ditto) and slicked the action. It is, bar none, the smoothest lever I own!

[AlphaFox]

Again, thank you for the comments and guidance. I have more homework to do it would seem! It looks like I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the wealth of knowledge buried within this website. Thanks for the links on the 45LC and the accurizing link as well. My neigbor has a winnie 16" in 45LC and a Puma in 44. After this deployment I think I will get him to take them shooting. I noticed right off the bat that the winnie had a smoother action than the Puma and while the only lever action rifle I have fired is the 30/30 winchester that is my only experience with them(levers).

[O.S.O.K.]

Well welcome to the board! You will find it's very entertaining and loaded with good people.

As to your question - it's a matter of personal preference. Just go with the one that you like the most - looks, handling, price, etc.

I will say this - if you are not aware of it, manufactures for some reason use a very slow twist rate in 44 Mag leverguns - 1:38". This is fine for 240 grain loads but when you get up to 300 grains, most will give very poor accuracy.

Its stupid really - they should switch to 1:20 ASAP - but they don't and haven't in spite of many people making the suggestion.

I personally don't like this and don't own 44 Mag leverguns. I go with 45 Colt as it does have the faster twist rate barrel and can handle the heavy bullet loads. If you handload, this is no problem and even if you don't you can purchase Buffalo Bullet, Corbon, etc. factory loads.

Finally, you have a motocross manuf logo for your avatar... are you into that? If so, maybe an OT post about that with some pics would be in the future?

[JerryB]

Welcome to the forum,i have three 92's, two made by Rossi in .357 and.45Colt,the third one is an old Winchester 1892 in 32-20. I have four 94 Winchesters in 30-30, there is a real world of diffderence in the actions. the 92 action is slick and smooth. You would well to call Steve and talk to him, he can really set your mind at ease. I called him Friday and ordered the video and an ejector spring for the .357.

Jerry, REV.22:20

[JReed]

Welcome aboard

I think you should get one of each and save your self the pain of making a decision.

[rjohns94]

Welcome aboard. +1 to what Griff said.

[gundownunder]

A few things you may want to consider.

The 92 action (EMF, Rossi, Puma) is the strongest of the actions if you want to make up handloads that push the envelope, but its a design which wont lend itself to proper scope mounting.
The 94 Winchester is a rifle cartridge action which has been adapted (read, "compromised") so it works with revolver cartridges.
The 94 Marlin is a revolver cartridge action which also lends itself to proper scope mounting.

I have the 94 Marlin cowboy with 20" oct. barrel in .357 and i know a few people with the same gun in .45LC, and they are all beautiful and very accurate rifles to shoot , with sweet triggers and smooth actions, straight out of the box.

[Rusty]

Welcome Alphafox,

Another thing that no one pointed out yet. If you plan on putting a scope on your levergun, a Marlin will be take the scope mounting better than the Winchester designs. According to tests Paco ( the owner of this forum) has done, the Winchester will handle higher pressures than the Marlin, but that is loading using careful practices and taking each design right to the limit. You can real a lot of Paco's articles on the leverguns.com start page. Each member will have his or her own preferences between Marlins and Winchesters based on opinion.

For me my go to rifle is a Marlin Cowboy II in .44 mag with the 24" octagon barrel. I like the octagon barrel and I also like the extra length because of the extra weight it gives me out front. I like the "hang" of it when shooting offhand, but that's me.

Also please let us know about your deployment. We'l be sure to keep you in our prayers.

Happy Trails and God Bless,
Rusty <><

[mad mucus]

[quote="Rusty"]Welcome Alphafox,

For me my go to rifle is a Marlin Cowboy II in .44 mag with the 24" octagon barrel. I like the octagon barrel and I also like the extra length because of the extra weight it gives me out front. I like the "hang" of it when shooting offhand, but that's me.
[/quote]

+1 ..... in .45 Colt

Mucus

[Hobie]

First, please excuse my ignorance of the search function and how to utilize it to get the results I am looking for. I didn't get back any results and after perusing the first 5 pages or so, so I can only assume that the question hasn't been posted.

I am really interested in a .44 magnum 16" carbine length lever-action rifle and want to ask a couple of questions to the forum members regarding any perceptible differences in accuracy, durability and quality of the following manufacturers.

Winchester cosmetically, the Winchester 94 is the most appealing to the eye to me. Does this translate to better quality?

Are the best looking women always the best women? Not for everyone. If you prefer the Winchester, get one but the best of those are the older ones.

Marlin- Of all the Marlins I really like the 1894 cowboy octagon barrel in the 20" length.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... 5Colt.aspx

Good for you.

Puma- I am familiar with the weird top bolt safety, Is it a problem or just ugly?

I think it is a problem. Fortunately Steves Gunz can give you a replacement for that.

Is there any benefit to an octagon barrel over a round barrel?

Stiffness and style but neither are practical concerns.

Is one manufacturer’s action better than the other?

Despite their sometimes vociferous proponents, no. Different is not always better or worse, sometimes it is just different. If you prefer one then it is better for you.

Is there any evidence that one is more accurate than the other?

No.

What are your thoughts?

I am not opposed to other brands but I definitely want the most quality, accurate, and dependable rifle that can be had at a reasonable price.

So do we all.

Thank you for your time and patience with my questions.-AlphaFox

You're welcome.

[AndyM]

I can't really say anything new - except welcome to the board.

Read, then re-read one more time what Hobie said.

If you really need another opinion - I enjoy the 92 action style - that would be your Puma.

[Idiot]

Most has already been said. Let me sum it up for you.

Marlin 1894s are more plentiful and the least expensive. On top of that, they are very good guns; some, like myself, prefer them.

So first off, go buy a Marlin M1894. This will get you in the field right away and buy you some time to look for and eventually buy the M92 you want.

Second, save your jingles and begin looking for a Browning M92. When you find one, buy it. You will then avoid all the gravelly actions that come with the South American 92s and avoid having to send it off to have it revamped into a proper firearm. You will also avoid the ugly safety and the ugly button that replaces it. The Browning comes ready to go right out of the box or scabbard.

There's your plan, based on your questions and the fine responses of others. Simple, fast, and complete. Have fun.

[jlchucker]

I bought a 44 mag Winchester Model 94 trapper, angle eject, but before they started putting goofy safeties on them, some time around 1987. It has a rebounding hammer, and a lever that rattles. I hated that wobbly lever link, but I never had any feeding or cycling problems. I replaced the front sight a couple of times with ivory-bead Lymans and put on a Williams receiver sight. This rifle favored the Lyman 215 grain gascheck boolet, and whenever I used jacketed loads, it grouped very tightly at 50 yd with Winchester 240 Gr hollowpoints. But whenever I'd load Remington 240 Gr Flatpoints, I may as well have not bothered. Never figured out why. Plinking with the cast 215 gr Lyman, it never was a problem to hit clay pigeon particles at 100 yards. When Winchester went out of business, and used trappers started getting priced at $600 and up, I put mine in my safe, after years of service as my go-to truck gun. I now have an EMF (Rossi) 44 mag octagon rifle (pre-lawyersafety). It too is a shooter, but I wish they made it in a short-rifle version, 44 magnum. I never tried the pistol-caliber Marlins so I can't comment on those. Except for the wobbly lever, the Model 94 trapper performed well for me. It was the little gun that I loved to hate.

[AlphaFox]

Gosh,

Thank you all for the timely and informed responses. I really feel welcome here and part of your close knit community.-Aaron