Not Lever but need Winchester 1903 help

[Rube Burrows]

First, please forgive me that this is not a lever. I just know you guys have lots of knowledge on other guns also so I thought I would ask.

I recently aquired a Winchester Model 1903 that appears to have a nickel finish. The gun was made around 1919 with a serial number of 1023**

The letterning and numbering appear crisp and not buffed out like many reblue/nickel jobs and I read that the 1903 came in many different finishes.

The inside shows no signs of ever being blued.

Any ideas?

[Rube Burrows]

A few more photos.

[Jay Bird]

Rube...that's an interesting gun.....I see parts (trigger and some internals) that were not supposed to be nickeled....not nickeled.....wood to metal fit is appropriate so,it's not as if someone took a beater and renickeled it. The rear barrel sight looks to be nickeled and that's what throws it off.

Because there are so few documented nickeled Winchesters to compare with it's a tough call......I'd personally say it's a 50/50 toss up......the barrel printing is questionable.......I'll check out some of my books and report back....

As you hopefully know, ammo is near non existent for the 1903.

[gamekeeper]

My landlord has one his father used in the 1st WW with the RFC, (the British government bought loads of them and millions of rounds of ammo for training), because it wasn't working right he took it to a local gunsmith who tried it with .22 LR and gave up, I told him it took different ammo and he said he had some old ammo that came with it, I tried it with the .22 Winchester Automatic ammo and with a bit of work it was fine..The special smokeless ammo was so no BP rounds could be used which would gum up the action.
Later ones were chambered in .22 LR . Nice find Rube...

[Rube Burrows]

Rube...that's an interesting gun.....I see parts (trigger and some internals) that were not supposed to be nickeled....not nickeled.....wood to metal fit is appropriate so,it's not as if someone took a beater and renickeled it. The rear barrel sight looks to be nickeled and that's what throws it off.

Because there are so few documented nickeled Winchesters to compare with it's a tough call......I'd personally say it's a 50/50 toss up......the barrel printing is questionable.......I'll check out some of my books and report back....

As you hopefully know, ammo is near non existent for the 1903.

Thank you. The photos really don't do the rifle justice. It is a lovely rifle. Was happy to see it locally and be able to pick it up. I had never seen one before and bought it on a whim. He said it was .22 but I was not aware that it was .22 auto till I got it back home and started researching it.

[Rube Burrows]

My landlord has one his father used in the 1st WW with the RFC, (the British government bought loads of them and millions of rounds of ammo for training), because it wasn't working right he took it to a local gunsmith who tried it with .22 LR and gave up, I told him it took different ammo and he said he had some old ammo that came with it, I tried it with the .22 Winchester Automatic ammo and with a bit of work it was fine..The special smokeless ammo was so no BP rounds could be used which would gum up the action.
Later ones were chambered in .22 LR . Nice find Rube...

Thanks. The shop I got it from does not normally have neat older guns like this. Was happy to see it.

[Sixgun]

Dang...the ammo can still be found.......

Look here, pay attention Captain Rube......no brag, fact....I know what I'm talking about so DONT let anyone BS you into robbing you of your gun.

Yes, the 1903 was available in different platings. It was not a great seller due to the special ammo......MANY times guns that were in pain-in-the-azz calibers were set aside and hardly used.......

If I had your gun in my hands I could tell you if the nickel finish was original....I have a feel for these things......I would strongly suggest that you take this gun to someone who knows what they are talking about or looking at....not some guy down the street who has 5 old Winchesters and a Rossi behind the seat of his truck.....most dealers don't even know......take it to a QUALITY gunshow and look up a dealer there who knows..but DO NOT tell him you are selling it or he will BS you into getting it.....offer the guy $25 - $50 to give you an honest opinion.....Quality dealers HATE cheap f's who are out to get free info that it took them a lifetime to achieve....put the money on the table....then ask ...NEVER ask, "how much do I owe you?"

If your gun is original nickel it'll bring $2-3000 easily.....it looks very "clean" with little to no flaking.

The rear barrel sight being nickeled bothers me.

Here's a couple of pages out of the Madis Book. I have 2 of the successors of the 1903....the model 63...both of mine are the rare carbines and made in the first year of production.---Good luck bro...

Remember.....people, by nature, are greedy.....they will sound like they are Einsteins brother and that their grandfather was the owner of Winchester......nickel plated Winchesters are rare and even rarer if they have "condition."

If it not original, go get a bottle of bourbon and have a happy drink....it's still a nice gun.------006

[Rube Burrows]

Dang...the ammo can still be found.......

Look here, pay attention Captain Rube......no brag, fact....I know what I'm talking about so DONT let anyone BS you into robbing you of your gun.

Yes, the 1903 was available in different platings. It was not a great seller due to the special ammo......MANY times guns that were in pain-in-the-azz calibers were set aside and hardly used.......

If I had your gun in my hands I could tell you if the nickel finish was original....I have a feel for these things......I would strongly suggest that you take this gun to someone who knows what they are talking about or looking at....not some guy down the street who has 5 old Winchesters and a Rossi behind the seat of his truck.....most dealers don't even know......take it to a QUALITY gunshow and look up a dealer there who knows..but DO NOT tell him you are selling it or he will BS you into getting it.....offer the guy $25 - $50 to give you an honest opinion.....Quality dealers HATE cheap f's who are out to get free info that it took them a lifetime to achieve....put the money on the table....then ask ...NEVER ask, "how much do I owe you?"

If your gun is original nickel it'll bring $2-3000 easily.....it looks very "clean" with little to no flaking.

Here's a couple of pages out of the Madis Book. I have 2 of the successors of the 1903....the model 63...both of mine are the rare carbines and made in the first year of production.---Good luck bro...

Remember.....people, by nature, are greedy.....they will sound like they are Einsteins brother and that their grandfather was the owner of Winchester......nickel plated Winchesters are rare and even rarer if they have "condition."

If it not original, go get a bottle of bourbon and have a happy drink....it's still a nice gun.------006

Thank you for the response. I will def try and find someone who would really know weather or not this one came from the factory finished like this. Thank you also for posting the excerpts from the book. That is a book that I have wanted for a while. Here are a few more photos of the gun. I took it outside this time in hopes that the better light would help the photos. It is not easy to take photos without reflections on the metal.

[Rube Burrows]

Last few.

[Mike Armstrong]

I'd try to find a contemporary (same serial number range) blued 1903 and compare the printed markings on the two. Not easy to find one but it would give you a pretty clear idea if your nickeled one has been buffed before refinishing. The close-up pic you supplied certainly doesn't look like it to me--the serifs on the letters are complete and consistent, and they usually get damaged by refinishing. But you do need a real expert to tell you for sure, and THAT, I am not.

[Sixgun]

Ok Rube...I'm 95% sure it's original.......the wood matches the metal, condition for condition,....when a gun is refinished it's always AFTER it's beat....the serial number stampings with the plating is right.....wood to metal fit is near perfect.....wear on the receiver is consistent with what I've seen on guns that were plated.

I believe you hit a home run.....it's a late 1903 made in 1919.

Here are two 63's..one made in '33 and the other in '34.....compare these with yours. Plating will every so slightly "smoothen" out the stampings even when new.

[Rube Burrows]

Ok Rube...I'm 95% sure it's original.......the wood matches the metal, condition for condition,....when a gun is refinished it's always AFTER it's beat....the serial number stampings with the plating is right.....wood to metal fit is near perfect.....wear on the receiver is consistent with what I've seen on guns that were plated.

I believe you hit a home run.....it's a late 1903 made in 1919.

Here are two 63's..one made in '33 and the other in '34.....compare these with yours. Plating will every so slightly "smoothen" out the stampings even when new.

Thank you for your insight and wisdom. I was hoping that it was original to the gun and not done afterwords. I was leaning that way also but really wanted to hear other's opinions on the gun also. We don't have any real experts in my area to take the gun to so maybe at another time I will find somewhere to let someone actually see the gun in person. I really appreciate the wisdom on the people on this page.

[Sixgun]

Your welcome Rube, always........just don't ask no questions on Rossi junk! -----006 .....we need to keep the board "uppity".

[Pat C]

The thing that stands out to me is how thin the model legend is . I think its a very old rework .Most of the old nickel plated guns usually the markings are very dark and usually always some tiny amount of flaking.

I have had and seen worn dies with broken letters etc.
though. I would think the W/P proof would tell the tell,should be raised edges as it was applied after proof firing.

[Rube Burrows]

The thing that stands out to me is how thin the model legend is . I think its a very old rework .Most of the old nickel plated guns usually the markings are very dark and usually always some tiny amount of flaking.

I have had and seen worn dies with broken letters etc.
though. I would think the W/P proof would tell the tell,should be raised edges as it was applied after proof firing.

Not sure what a "Model Legend" is.

I did not notice a WP proof but will get it out of the safe and look again.

[Rube Burrows]

Went back and looked again and found the proof mark. Due to the nickel finish its hard to see markings because of all the reflections that show up and account of my bad eyes.

I zoomed in with my phone to get you a decent photo of it. Hope this helps.

[Pat C]

Looks like the receiver W/P is gone but right edge of oval ? If so its Definatly a refinish . Both the receiver and barrel will be proofed after assembly during this era.
The barrel proof is pretty thin too.

[Rube Burrows]

Looks like the receiver W/P is gone but right edge of oval ? If so its Definatly a refinish . Both the receiver and barrel will be proofed after assembly during this era.
The barrel proof is pretty thin too.

I guess it appears that way. Welp, there goes the great value I guess.

[Sixgun]

No, no...don't give up that easy Rube........many times proof marks are stamped light.......the serial numbers of model 1892's were all stamped very light for the first couple of years and it seems like many proof marks are lightly stamped......combine the plating (yes, plating is thicker than blue and therefore will fill in the markings more easily. .......with the handling of the gun for many years can smoothen it up more........

You need to spend the time researching the internet and make your own determination.....high dollar Winchester dealers like Mertz or Grove can tell you ....they may/will charge you a few but a few hundred spent will be a few thousand gained....your call..--006

[Rube Burrows]

I will continue to research the rifle and may possibly look into other the options also. I appreciate the input of all of your here.