New member and question about sights

[AzBill]

Greetings! I’ve been a casual reader of this site for years, and now come here for some advice. I spent my career working in the back country along the border and have had a Winchester 94AE Trapper in 44 magnum riding in the truck with me since the late 1980’s. Purely for defensive purposes, not hunting. Now, alas, age has caught up with my eyes and the modified buckhorn sight needs to go. I much admired a friend’s XS ghost-ring sight, but it would be difficult to put one on my Trapper. The problem is that the XS mounts on the receiver and would require a taller front sight. The front sight on my Trapper is not in a dovetail, but rather soldered directly to the barrel. I’d like to avoid sending it to a gunsmith.
Options that I see include the Marble’s 2.75” bullseye sight (if it ever comes into stock again), the Skinner barrel-mounted peep sight (I’d remove the aperture and use it as a ghost ring), or a Williams receiver peep sight with the aperture removed (don’t particularly like the look).
I would welcome your insights and suggestions!

[Tycer]

My choice would be the Lyman or Williams receiver sight as the sight acquisition time for me is a million times faster that a hole halfway to the target.
And looks? Really? Your gun already has an ugly butt lawyer bellybutton on the side …..

[AzBill]

Thanks for the info. I had wondered about the issue of having an aperture mounted down there.

And, NO, there is no safety on this rifle, unless you count the rebounding hammer and the trigger stop that is compressed by the lever.

[ollogger]

Hi & welcome!!
I have a few 94s with receiver sights on them, they are better than the barrel sight (for me)
but at 100 yd it has to be a fairly large target to even hold a 10 in.. group
i have close up eye issues so plain & simpel a scope is the way i went on my 94 ae trapper
I found on ebay a 2 1/5 power redfield & the groups went from big to maybe 2 in. yea its not the
sleek little gun it used to be but it least i can hit some thing with it



ollogger

[AzBill]

Did you need to replace the front sight when you put the receiver sights on? My front sight needs to be a little bit taller to center in the XS.

[ollogger]

The XS i have i didnt need to change the front sight, its also on a trapper, but it has a dove tail sight
so i see your concern on ypur trapper with a fixed sight


ollogger

[OldWin]

I have the same rifle. A 94AE Trapper (pre-safety) in 44.
I have had it for a long time. Most all my Winchesters are old. I bought this as a Jeep and snowshoeing rifle, but have done some hunting with it too.
It has been a guinea pig since the day I got it.
I detested the rebounding hammer, so I swapped in a completed lower tang assembly from a late 60s 94. All that had to be done is to file the tenons for the frame flush with the sides of the lower tang on the replacement assembly.
I have had a scout scope on an XS mount, a Burris FF3, a Williams peep, and finally an XS ghost ring. The XS is by far my favorite, but if you are concerned about your vision the FF3 on a single front scope base works well. It can also be mounted to a Turnbull mount in the barrel dovetail. I have this on another carbine, and it works well.

[AzBill]

Boy, you have done a lot with sights on that rifle. Never thought of putting a red dot on it, and I suppose I could if I found a small enough one. I never found the rebounding hammer objectionable, but I regret the soldered front sight. I guess that the barrel is too thin on the 44 to safely put in a dovetail.

[OldWin]

Boy, you have done a lot with sights on that rifle. Never thought of putting a red dot on it, and I suppose I could if I found a small enough one. I never found the rebounding hammer objectionable, but I regret the soldered front sight. I guess that the barrel is too thin on the 44 to safely put in a dovetail.

Mine has a dovetailed post. I thought they all did. Usually, these rifles are the years of the heavier barrels, but even the earlier versions had the post with the dovetail, I thought.

[Malamute]

I have no experience with the XS or other receiver sights that mount on the top holes for the scope mounts, mine have been side mount Lyman 56 and 66s and a couple Williams Foolproofs, none required a different front sight. If I were going to put a receiver sight on an AE gun, id drill and tap it for a side mount receiver sight, its pretty simple to do. I never cared for the top mount type on Winchesters.

The ultimate answer was a Leupold 1-4 scope in Leupold mounts and low rings.

[GunnyMack]

Not knowing how handy you are, a couple options I can think of,
1 , add material to your front sight. I wouldn't try to silver solder as that requires a torch to red heat for the solder to flow ( ruining the solder joint for the sight) but a good welder can add with less heat. Then just file it little by little shooting it as you go until you have it zeroed at X distance.
2 I was also going to suggest a red dot. The technology has gotten smaller. Less of an eyesore than a scope.
3, any receiver site.

[AzBill]

Well, I'm fairly handy and have built and repaired all sorts of things, but welding is not among my skills. I sort of like the idea of simply raising the front sight. I've got a neighbor who welds, I think, and I should talk to him about adding a bit to the top of the front sight. I've seen people talk about using JB Weld, but I think it would be fragile and unlikely to stand up to the shock of shooting.

I'm going to have to look at small red dot sights, as well as the Williams peep sights. At one time in my life, I used peep sights quite a bit and thought they worked well.

[BenT]

I have put fiber optic front sights on most of my lever guns. Some have receiver sights and others the Bullseye barrel sight. Centering a red fiber optic in the center of circle works for me.

[AzBill]

I've got a fiber optic front sight on another rifle and like it...but the front sight on my Trapper is soldered on!

[OldWin]

I don't know if you've tried any of the receiver sights, but I have never had to change or alter my front sight from the original. Both my XS ghost ring and Williams zeroed with the factory front.
If your trapper doesn't have the dovetailed post front sight, and it's an Angle Eject Trapper from the 80's, I'm a little confused. Did you buy it new? Are you sure it wasn't a 20" carbine that had been shortened by a previous owner?

[Bruce Scott]

In a similar discussion at the link below, Andy of Skinner Sights at Post # 3 said "On our test rifle the front sight was tall enough [for the Skinner sight] but I can't promise that it will be on yours

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/sk ... er.380010/

It may be worthwhile contacting him to see if the test rifle had the soldered sight.

Also at this link at Post #6 it was stated that: "The XS requires that the front sight be replaced with one taller than issue because it mounts the peep bar much higher than Williams, who carry their peep bar behind the mounting base in the lowest position." He was referring to the Williams 5D-94AE and FP-94AE sights which mount on top of the receiver.

https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/peep-sig ... er.177504/

[AzBill]

I like the Skinner sights and should email them to ask how high the sight sits above the receiver. Looking at their photos, it seems to be the same height as the XS. My eyes are uncalibrated, however. I do know that the top of the front sight is 0.74" above the center of the bore, which gives a starting point for figuring out the height of the rear sight.

[Bruce Scott]

I don't know if you've tried any of the receiver sights, but I have never had to change or alter my front sight from the original. Both my XS ghost ring and Williams zeroed with the factory front.
If your trapper doesn't have the dovetailed post front sight, and it's an Angle Eject Trapper from the 80's, I'm a little confused. Did you buy it new? Are you sure it wasn't a 20" carbine that had been shortened by a previous owner?

According to discussions at these links:

https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/t ... ght.45322/
Post #5: The change over [from the soldered front sight] was around 6,000,000 when USRA introduced the heavier (larger diameter) barrel.

https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/d ... ers.64234/
Post # 5: The smaller original rifle calibers, 30-30, 38-55, 32WS used dovetailed front sights. Then about 92 Winchester introduced the heavier bull barrel for the .45 Colt and probably the 44 Mag and went back to the dovetailed sights. The 85 to 92 .45 Colt barrels were so thin at the muzzle they couldn't put a proper dovetail in them so they soldered or braised the front sight on.

[AzBill]

My rifle was purchased in 1989 or 1990, I think, and has a 561xxxx serial number. It was new in the box, purchased from a local gun shop.

[OldWin]

Mine is from the same time frame. I think it was made in 90.
This is my front sight. It measures roughly .700 over the centerline of the bore.

[AzBill]

Is that in a dovetail? Mine is 0.74" height from center of bore. For the XS ghost ring, I do not understand why my front sight is too low and yours is not. Perhaps they changed the height of the XS? Doesn't seem likely... I'll have to get out to the shop in the morning and make some measurements.

[OldWin]

Yes. It's is dovetailed. I have a Legendary Lawmen trapper from 77 that has the same sight. That rifle is a top eject, and so, has a 66 Lyman. It too works fine with the factory front.
My measurements could have been off. I just quickly held a caliper up in poor light. But it's not way off.

[GunnyMack]

You could certainly use jbweld to build up the front, then 'shoot it in' . Then take your height measurements, remove the jbweld and have your welder build up and then finish with files.
Another trick i saw was to use a bore siter and add modeling clay to the front until you look through the sites at the center of the bore siter just like a scope. Then you have an idea of how much to add and off to the welder as before.

[Tycer]

And, NO, there is no safety on this rifle, unless you count the rebounding hammer and the trigger stop that is compressed by the lever.

Cool, an early one!
That’s excellent.

[Grizz]

another way to deal with the front sight is to solder a sight-block to the barrel with the dovetail in the block. that gives you the most options. also, a dovetail in the barrel may not be too deep, [daylight deep]. gas pressure should not be an issue with the sight base reinforcing the spot. dovetails for the magazine hangers are sometimes annoyingly deep, but the fitting in the dovetail reinforces the cut.

being handy lets you cut the dovetail by hand with hacksaw and files, or a mill. if you cut it by hand, a tight hose clamp gives a perfect reference. another detail, sighting backwards from the front sight reveals any "offness" in the lineup... i suppose everyone knows this tho

[AzBill]

Well, thanks to everyone for their comments. I decided that the simplest and best solution is to go with a Williams receiver sight. Ordered it a couple of minutes ago.

[OldWin]

It will work fine. I had one on mine for a while. You can see it in the picture with the red dot mounted.
I liked it pretty well. The biggest difference between the Williams and the XS is the cleaner sight picture. The aperture is a little bigger, and there is less clutter so your situational awareness is a little better. Nothing huge.
I will say that the Williams is easier to adjust. If you shoot different loads, it will matter quite a bit.

[AJMD429]

.
The Marble's "Bullseye" is certainly the FASTEST sight to bring to action I've ever used, and with the dual ring (thick 'ghost' outer ring for snap-shooting, and thinner 'precision' ring that comes into focus if you take an extra second to accommodate - even with old eyes) it allows precise shooting as well. It is extremely durable, and has NO 'obstruction' (compare to even an ordinary 'open iron sight' in the pictures on the thread I posted years ago -

viewtopic.php?p=390174#p390174

The sights are extremely durable and some very tough spring-steel. They are of the 'drift and elevator' type adjustment, meaning they take patience to sight-in, but once that's done, they are awesome.

I didn't realize they were not in stock, but I'll bet many are lurking around in parts-drawers of gun shops and hobbyists. I have one on each one of my 16" leverguns.

Several distributors listed for the Marbles - here - http://www.marblearms.com/distributors.html

Looks like Brownells' has the 'short' one IN STOCK (I never saw a need for the longer one) - https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/s ... aspx?dym=y