I'd still rather have a lever action...

[AJMD429]

.
https://youtu.be/-L_gzFu9TNg

But I gotta admit, the semiauto looks fun. No more fun than a Beowulf though.

Kinda interesting on AR-15 style firearms here, as an aside - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJMGiR4FgY - on 'quality' metrics.

[Grizz]

.
https://youtu.be/-L_gzFu9TNg

But I gotta admit, the semiauto looks fun. No more fun than a Beowulf though.

Kinda interesting on AR-15 style firearms here, as an aside - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJMGiR4FgY - on 'quality' metrics.

YEAH, well, it would have been far more impressive if he had used normal 45/70 ammo, and heavy for caliber hard cast. my guesstimate is that a 525 Gr hard cast would not have stopped in cabbage. and one of Matt's 700gr might still be out there destroying stuff.

what is the pressure limit for the AR10 receiver?

[wvfarrier]

I jumped on the 5o Beowulf and 458 Socom bandwagons when they first came out. Both use the smaller, non proprietary AR15 platforms instead of the much larger AR10 but provide same performance as the 45-70 auto. Plus, they have been around for over a decade and are well established. I eventually returned to the 45-70 levergun

[AJMD429]

I jumped on the 5o Beowulf and 458 Socom bandwagons when they first came out. Both use the smaller, non proprietary AR15 platforms instead of the much larger AR10 but provide same performance as the 45-70 auto. Plus, they have been around for over a decade and are well established. I eventually returned to the 45-70 levergun

Pretty similar here - only I didn't bother with the 458 SOCOM since the 50 Beowulf is better anyway.
And when I went 'back' to leverguns, I bracketed the 45-70 by pulling my 444 Marlin out of the gun safe, and adding a 500 S&W (Big Horn Armory model 89 Levergun). Other than the really AWESOME historic factor, each of those does a bit the 45-70 alone has to stretch to do.

[wvfarrier]

The only thing I didnt like about 50B was the price of the brass. It was still in its infancy and was ABSURDLY expensive.

[Grizz]

I have plenty of leverguns. If i get jumped by B'rer Bear in southeast i plan to have the 50 cal AR pistol on the chest sling, across the redhawk tanker rig. the biggest problem will be if the batteries in the hearing aides die. wait one, i forgot to get hearing aides !!!

[piller]

The . 458 SoCom is pretty much the same power level as the . 45-70 Trapdoor loads. Give or take. The reloading speed by just slapping in a full magazine is where it starts to look better. A Marlin 1895 can get a bit more power, and a Winchester 86 can get even more power. The AR-15 platform has limited size that it can handle for self loading, as we all know. It is not meant to be a super heavy hitter, but it is pretty decent for a woods and brush cartridge. In its niche, it works just fine. I would not be averse to using it to defend my property.

[3leggedturtle]

.
Kinda interesting on AR-15 style firearms here, as an aside - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJMGiR4FgY - on 'quality' metrics.

So this basically shows how to put "cleavage" on an AR....! todd/3leg

[3leggedturtle]

what is the pressure limit for the AR10 receiver?

I have seen an AR10 advertized in 300 WSM. They ran 63,000psi with a case head diameter of .555. Never saw any follow up on hiw durable they were at that pressure.

[piller]

I remember an AR-10 which was advertised as having barrels that could switch between . 243 and . 308, but they both run about the same pressure. Pretty much what the AR-10 was designed for as far as I know. I have no practical experience or knowledge of the AR-10, so I must refer to books and reloading manuals. SAAMI max pressure for 7.62x51 NATO is 62,000. SAAMI max for the . 300 WSM is 65,000. 3,000 psi chamber pressure doesn't seem like all that much to me. Granted that . 308 SAAMI is about 50,000 psi.
I searched for AR-10 rifles. Most advertised as being safe for 7.62 NATO. Just my guess, but the bolt and chamber would handle the extra psi and recoil of the .300 WSM for quite a high round count.

[Grizz]

thanks for the pressure info. i have a 7.62 that handles those pressures no problem. it is MUCH softer shooting than the same round in a Savage 99 lever gun. i suppose it weighs as much as a fully kitted out AR-10.

I've transitioned to the puny little AR-15 because it can adapt to my "mission" needs with a top swap. . . .

although i would like to do an AR -10 comparison to my roller-locker . . .

good info, good morning Y'all

[sore shoulder]

although i would like to do an AR -10 comparison to my roller-locker . . .

For accuracy, even a PSG1 can't touch an AR10. I'm pretty sure the fluted chamber and stamped receiver is the reason. As far as durability, be hard to beat the G3 I think.

[Grizz]

although i would like to do an AR -10 comparison to my roller-locker . . .

For accuracy, even a PSG1 can't touch an AR10. I'm pretty sure the fluted chamber and stamped receiver is the reason. As far as durability, be hard to beat the G3 I think.

Oh Yeah. I'll concede the accuracy difference. Although there is a tube video of a PTR-91 grouping on steel at 500M. that persuaded me. Plus 5$ magazines.

Good to see you on board.

[sore shoulder]

although i would like to do an AR -10 comparison to my roller-locker . . .

For accuracy, even a PSG1 can't touch an AR10. I'm pretty sure the fluted chamber and stamped receiver is the reason. As far as durability, be hard to beat the G3 I think.

Oh Yeah. I'll concede the accuracy difference. Although there is a tube video of a PTR-91 grouping on steel at 500M. that persuaded me. Plus 5$ magazines.

Good to see you on board.

I lurk once or twice a year seeing what everyones up to.

The M110 SASS (Knights SR25 designed with input from Stoner) is .5-1 MOA with M118LR ammo and effective to 1000M. There are plenty of boutique AR10's like Larue that will do better. Then there's 6.5 CM chamberings that leave everything else in the dust. If I was choosing something in .308 I would be going for accuracy and distance. Otherwise if long distance accuracy isn't required, I will defer to the well established doctrine of more lighter rounds no question.

[Grizz]

although i would like to do an AR -10 comparison to my roller-locker . . .

For accuracy, even a PSG1 can't touch an AR10. I'm pretty sure the fluted chamber and stamped receiver is the reason. As far as durability, be hard to beat the G3 I think.

Oh Yeah. I'll concede the accuracy difference. Although there is a tube video of a PTR-91 grouping on steel at 500M. that persuaded me. Plus 5$ magazines.

Good to see you on board.

I lurk once or twice a year seeing what everyones up to.

The M110 SASS (Knights SR25 designed with input from Stoner) is .5-1 MOA with M118LR ammo and effective to 1000M. There are plenty of boutique AR10's like Larue that will do better. Then there's 6.5 CM chamberings that leave everything else in the dust. If I was choosing something in .308 I would be going for accuracy and distance. Otherwise if long distance accuracy isn't required, I will defer to the well established doctrine of more lighter rounds no question.

Yeah, there's a lot of hot stuff out there. i know i can be picked off by a sniper a mile+ away.

Different missions for different folks. I have nato round + AK firearms in case i am surrounded by combat and need to resupply.

my pistols give me the little 556 for more lighter rounds, and 50 cal for more bigger stuff. since these two use the same mags my choice comes to which level of force multiplication i need. this is in the context of Alaska's Bear Woods.

besides, i live in-between an aircraft carrier and multiple boomers. i conclude that i am well and truly targeted.

[450 Fuller]

In keeping with the original title and meaning of the thread:
I REALLY would rather have a heavy lever action -in places like Canada or Alaska -like an original 1886 or Model 71 Winchester.
The 450 Alaskan can be loaded with 400gr Kodiak/Hawk/Woodleigh/Swift jacketed bullets to right at 2000 FPS. That will stop anything in N. America \and most critters in Africa.
I have one in a pre-war M- 71 and it is more reliable than any bolt action-as it cycles faster than a bolt. And...it does'nt have a propensity for jamming like an AR.
Bears do not give a warning or a time out card...

The modern Browning versions left out the modern Winchester errors of a tang safety &/or rebounding hammer. John Browning would
not be impressed with unnecessary changes to his original design. I have carried a CAR 15 in N I-Corps 71-72. Would NOT carry an M-16
in Alaska or a combat zone now if an H&K G3 or 91 was available. The 1911 still works well as a platform. Look up the weapons that really worked at Chosin Reservoir in 1950: minus 25 degree weather.

[AJMD429]

In keeping with the original title and meaning of the thread:
I REALLY would rather have a heavy lever action -in places like Canada or Alaska -like an original 1886 or Model 71 Winchester.
The 450 Alaskan can be loaded with 400gr Kodiak/Hawk/Woodleigh/Swift jacketed bullets to right at 2000 FPS. That will stop anything in N. America \and most critters in Africa.
I have one in a pre-war M- 71 and it is more reliable than any bolt action-as it cycles faster than a bolt. And...it does'nt have a propensity for jamming like an AR.
Bears do not give a warning or a time out card...

I have been very happy with the Big Horn Armory Model 89 Levergun in 500 S&W and if I lived in Bear Country would likely depend on it (the only other thought would be an AR in 'pistol' or SBR configuration chambered in 50 Beowulf (identical ballistics, faster followup shots and 10-round capacity magazines fairly compact, but I'd really want to fire my 'standard' 1,000-round no-failure test I do for any semiauto firearm before depending on it for life-and-limb, and that would cost a TON of money).

The '89' is thus named as it is sort of a modern-steel (strong) version of an 1886, with the action slightly shorter due to the more compact cartridge, as in an 1892 - halfway between 1886 and 1892 is 1889.

500 S&W from an 18" carbine lever-action gives 7+1 round capacity and has a Taylor Knock Out factor that is WAY up there, especially due to the very wide meplat; I think something like 4,000 ft-lbs of energy for folks who prefer that quantitation.

[mickbr]

Always envious when I hear about your BHA .500 doc
Do you run reloads or factory?

[AJMD429]

Always envious when I hear about your BHA .500 doc
Do you run reloads or factory?

Until I accumulate enough brass I'm shooting factory loads. Some Buffalo Bore.