Toying with .69 cal rifled musket idea

[preventec47]

The 1842 Springfield rifled musket had a 42 inch
barrel and there are some Civil War guys who like
to shoot the reproductions at their competitions.
The mini balls range from approx 500 to 800 grains
from what I've heard.

This seems like would be more fun than shooting
12 ga slugs and I love to do that.

I'm not crazy about huge clouds of smoke
but could live with it if there are not
suitable less smoky gunpowders.

Anyone have any experience with these .69
guns? I'd like some idea as to velocities
and accuracy and wont get a chance to play
with any for another couple months at the
next "skirmish"

[KCSO]

A 69 minie will go about 900 fps with a load of 65 grains of FFG on average. Drop at 100 yards is tremendous. Accuracy can be quite good with the right load and 4" groups at 100 yards are not uncommon. The minnies will need to be lubed and SPG will serve very well. Now a good friend of miine had a 69 caliber rifled musket and we use to use it on the range for shooting demonstrations. We would throw up a head of cabbage and shoot it and turn it into instant coleslaw. The cabbage would just explode! There was a trick to this, you turn the minnie backwards when loading and you are shooting the worlds biggest hollowpoint! No body else in the club could get their cabbage to explode like our and it was a bone of ccontention for quite a while before we let the secret out.

[Nath]

From what I understand to much powder behind a Minnie can ruin accuracy due to the skirt being blown on leaving the barrel!

Nath.

[rangerider7]

Here's an original 1842 Springfield 69 caliber rifled musketoon I bought a few years back. It was made in 1847. The man I got it from shot it often. It came from a family in Goldthwaite, Texas. That is the original powder horn above it. I thought you might want to see it.

[Hobie]

That's neat!

The full-size muskets are a handfull for those accustomed to modern arms. Put a bayonet on the end and you've seemingly got the proverbial 10' pole!

[Old Time Hunter]

Somebody enlighten me, was not the .69 a smooth bore? And the .54 the rifled version of the "Mississippi"? Later updated to .58 cal for the civil war.

[Cliff]

I have heard the .69 caliber minie rifles were considered more accurate than the 58 caliber. When troops would move from post to post replacing another unit, part of the festivities were shoot off's. The general comment was the rifle 69's were considered better. Don't know what range. As for blowing the skirts on a Minie it will happen if the load is hot enought. Lyman's Black Powder manual did quite a write up on importance of proper skirts on minie balls. They came out with several various to correct the problem in .58 caliber. It worked. I remember some writing by John Baird who wrote 40 years in the Hawken Load and several other very good books. He was considered the Dean of Hawken shooters and many things related to black powder and Mountain Men. I believe he and several other makers, experimented with what would be the ideal size for bore, bullet and powder load for a minie ball gun. They claimed the Minie Ball was never fully exploited and experimented with due to the short time it was in use and followed by cartridge firing guns. They did a lot of experiment and come up with a .69 caliber rifle, groove twist was 1-39 IIRC, bullet was only two or three thousands under bore size, tight fitted and a fairly hefty, not wild, powder charge not enought to blow the skirts. Were able to make a fully sized hawken that could be counted on to produce minute of angle accuracy on request. John Bairds favorite hawken rifle was a 69 cal. and 32 inch barrel. Called it his bear gun, claimed he would let the bear run into the barrel, put his thumb ver the muzzle to keep it from getting away. The .69 can be an impressive shooter from all reports I have heard. Good Luck.

[preventec47]

Can someone describe technically exactly what
"blowing the skirts" means ? I assume because
the rear end of the bullet is hollow that when the
tip of the bullet exits the barrel the pressure
in the hollow cavity pushes the walls of the bullet
outward in that millionth of a second.
But I cannot hardly see how that is possible with
a barrel length of 42 inches. ( Thinking about the
modern internal ballistics "expansion ratio" concept.)

But if I am right about the description, then
making the lead alloy a little harder could
make a huge difference in providing
the strength necessary to prevent blowing
the skirts out.

Is anyone aware of a good forum with focus
on early muzzle loading technology.
I understand the newer technologies
with tablets and sabots and jacketed
bullets are not much different in performance
than the latest modern cartridges.

[Hobie]

Imagine Marilyn Monroe's skirt blowing up. Yep, it can be done. Too much powder, pure lead and thin skirt.

Newer technologies, yeah...

[Nath]

A point to remember is that a minie is slack in the bore for easy loading and the skirt is thin so the burn blows the skirt out to fill the bore.
A fix for more powder burning is to turn down the mold plug thus thickening the skirt

Nath.

[junkbug]

Old Time Hunter;

A great many outdated muskets were continually updated over their long service lives. Many 1816 US service flintlocks were converted to percussion before or during the Mexican War period. Some of these, and later model muskets made originally as percussion arms were rifled just before the Civil War.

Rifled .69 cal muskets were not uncommon on both sides early in the Civil War. The evidence is in the battlefield dug up bullets. .69 cal minnies are common. There would be no reason to use a minnie in a smooth bore. Round ball and buckshot were also found commonly. That would be the smooth bore ammo.

Sean

[Old Time Hunter]

Sean,

Thanks...but from all my research so far, the .69 was a musket/smoothbore and the .54 & .58 were rifles capable of utilizing the Minnie' ball ammo.

[Ben_Rumson]

The other day I was dreaming about the Minie concept in something like 35 or 40 caliber.. a M/L for fast & easy loading that doesn't eat lots of powder & lead...Don't know tho if one could get a skirt to work in a diameter that small...

[Cliff]

Yes OLD TIMER you are right the original .69 calibers were made up as smoothbore muskets, the .54's were actually made up for shooting a patched round ball and the .58's were a new design made for minie bullets. When the war broke out the demand was for any guns which could shoot. The Govt. inspected the .69's and those with heavy or thick enough barrels were sent into the arsenals and rifled to shoot the minies, the .54's were initially used with minies as they were adequate strength to handle them and were rifled. MAny of these were bored out to shoot the .58. I think this was for ease of supply to the troops. There were units which liked the smooth bored .69's and commonly used the "Buck and Ball" loads which was a large round ball and six buck shot sized balls combined to increase its killing power. There was an article, in the American Rifleman I believe, some years back of a monument erected at one of of the battle sites at Gettysburg commenorating the Buck and Ball load Used by several units in a pitched battle. They had plenty of guns, and a big supply of captured ammo, used double buck and ball loads and raised quite a bit of a ruckus during their part in the battle. Just food for thought. Have a great day.