Need Help getting started re-loading somewhat OT

[TCB in TN]

I have come to the determination that to feed the the family (guns for my self and my boys) I am going to have to start re-loading. I have a 12 year old, and one almost 15, along with a BUNCH of nephews. We shoot lots of .22lr but as they have gotten older they just can't stand to pull out the .22lrs and NOT shoot at least a little of the bigger stuff. Right now I have a pretty varied collection plenty of .22lr and .22mag, 9mm (pistols and carbine), .38spcl and .357mag, .45lc, .45acp, 30-30, .243, .308, and 30-06. Of course the boys LOVE (well I guess I do too) shooting the 9mm and.45lc in the handguns, and they will shoot as many center fire rounds per sitting as I will let them.

So long story short, to feed the habit I either need to make MUCH more money (not likely as I am a teacher) or make the cost per round go down. Years ago I traded for a little single stage loader, maybe loaded a couple of hundred rounds before I traded it back off, so I have a little idea about how to load, but now I think I really need to be getting into it a bit more serious. So for you hand loader guys, please give me your wisdom for what would you start with that will give me some decent flexability and can get something done at a good value. (The old, cheap, fast, quality all together request! )

I appreciate the help from all you gurus!

[Terry Murbach]

AFTER LOADING FOR 48 YEARS AND HAVING OVER 850,000 ROUNDS COME OFF MY LOADING TOOLS YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW A QUESTION LIKE YOURS FRUSTRATES THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME !!! I AM GONNA LET THE YOUNG GUYS ANSWER THIS FOR THE NEXT 500 ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS, MOST OF WHICH YOU'LL NOT UNDERSTAND NOR PAY ATTENTION TO. VERY--VERY!!!--THICK BOOKS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ON THE SUBJECT. YOU SHOULD READ THEM ALL BEFORE LOADING YOUR FIRST ROUND BUT YOU WON'T.
OKAY GUYS, JUMP IN HERE AND TELL HIM ALL HE HAS TO KNOW TO SUCCESSFULLY HANDLOAD--NOT RELOAD!!!--HIS OWN CARTRIDGES. I'LL PAY ATTENTION TOO AS I LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAY.

[Ben_Rumson]

This should help... scroll to the top
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ss#p104893

[Lefty Dude]

AFTER LOADING FOR 48 YEARS AND HAVING OVER 850,000 ROUNDS COME OFF MY LOADING TOOLS YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW A QUESTION LIKE YOURS FRUSTRATES THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME !!! I AM GONNA LET THE YOUNG GUYS ANSWER THIS FOR THE NEXT 500 ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS, MOST OF WHICH YOU'LL NOT UNDERSTAND NOR PAY ATTENTION TO. VERY--VERY!!!--THICK BOOKS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ON THE SUBJECT. YOU SHOULD READ THEM ALL BEFORE LOADING YOUR FIRST ROUND BUT YOU WON'T.
OKAY GUYS, JUMP IN HERE AND TELL HIM ALL HE HAS TO KNOW TO SUCCESSFULLY HANDLOAD--NOT RELOAD!!!--HIS OWN CARTRIDGES. I'LL PAY ATTENTION TOO AS I LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAY.

And as a reloader for the past 40 years that is still reading on the subject I would add to the above. Get yourself a Lyman Reloading Manual and read, read & read.

Then if you can find a friend, relative or Such who reloads bend there Ear, watch them on a reloading session and help them reload. Then select your hardware, some can be purchased on E-bay or internet sites pre-owned and still very useful.

There is lots of reloading hardware on the market, what works for me may not for you. But by all means start with a Single stage press. Do not buy a high-volume progressive press to learn on.

[HEAD0001]

A single stage press will do what you need. the above comments about reading a few books is good advice. No it is not good advice-it is excellent advice.

IMO you should buy quality equipment, just shop for a good price. I have seen a lot of good buys on E-Bay for reloading equipment. You can also access the mfrs. web sites and buy blems, or rebuilds that were returned by other customers. The mfr. will not sell you an inferior product(unless you buy Lee), just scratched or dented. I just bought a Lyman Orange Crush press for $60 from Lyman that was suppse to have inferior paint(I can not find the inferior paint).

Can you tell I am not a fan of Lee products?? I will not argue with the guy's who like Lee products. However I sold sporting goods for a long time, and I know which products were returned and which were not. You rarely got a Lyman or RCBS product returned. You never got a Redding product returned. Tom.

[Dave]

Handloading is not rocket science. The most basic things are be sure and get carbide pistol dies, get an RCBS Uniflow powder measure, and a Lee Prime All primer tool. I like Dillon brand spray case lube for rifles. The Lee case trimmers that fit in your drill are the way to go. Get a good scale, not a cheapy.

I am a huge fan of Varget for rifles. I use it for 30-30, 308, 243, and 223. Unique is a pretty good all around pistol powder as it 231. Unique is a little smokey for some people. I like it.

Just pay attention and make sure your scale is right. I have a large amount of 38 Special brass is you need some free brass. What part of TN are you in?

[tkcomer]

Gotta get those books to load all that. But for starters, the Lee Classic Cast press will load all of those calibers. It will make short work of the pistol calibers and you can use it as a single stage for the rifle calibers. Its cheap for what it is, but it works. That's my take on the press. You need a lot of stuff to load all that. I'd buy the pistol caliber that I shot the most and learn on it. One powder will load all those pistol calibers you have if you choose the right one. Won't be the best for all, but bulk buying will save money. You'll need a lot of other stuff, and you won't get it in one order unless you're better at it than I am. Better to concentrate on one caliber and then figure out what you want for the others. The Lee Auto Disc Powder measure and Auto Prime works great for the pistols, but another powder measure is need for those large rifle shells. Get a good scale. That is indispensable. And this is just a start. Starting out ain't cheap, but for all those calibers, in the long run, the setup will pay for itself.

[TCB in TN]

AFTER LOADING FOR 48 YEARS AND HAVING OVER 850,000 ROUNDS COME OFF MY LOADING TOOLS YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW A QUESTION LIKE YOURS FRUSTRATES THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME !!! I AM GONNA LET THE YOUNG GUYS ANSWER THIS FOR THE NEXT 500 ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS, MOST OF WHICH YOU'LL NOT UNDERSTAND NOR PAY ATTENTION TO. VERY--VERY!!!--THICK BOOKS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ON THE SUBJECT. YOU SHOULD READ THEM ALL BEFORE LOADING YOUR FIRST ROUND BUT YOU WON'T.
OKAY GUYS, JUMP IN HERE AND TELL HIM ALL HE HAS TO KNOW TO SUCCESSFULLY HANDLOAD--NOT RELOAD!!!--HIS OWN CARTRIDGES. I'LL PAY ATTENTION TOO AS I LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAY.

Sorry I bothered to ask a question. 15 years ago, I hand loaded/reloaded a handful of rounds, and since I do NOT currently know anyone that is actually doing it here locally, and even after asking most of my hunting buddies, still not finding anyone who is involved, I thought I would ask for some advice here. As for the question, well I am in-experienced and I honestly don't know, what I don't know! As for whether I pay attention or not, well I may or I may not. In my case whether I pay attention or not really depends upon what I am told, and first of all whether it makes sense, and second whether it fits my situation!

I spent 15 years working for a fortune 500 Company working my way into a pretty good spot in the Inventory Control and IT departments. During that time I always tried to use some common sense and most of that doesn't come straight out of books, actual real world experience usually helps a lot. But then again I also went back to school to get my degree to teach while working as an Inventory Control Manager, so I DO know how to read books, and can learn quite a bit from them. Now this summer I have been quite busy taking 15 hours towards my Masters degree, which I will rec. on August 6th. Now so I don't just come off as a geek, I will mention that I grew up on a farm, hunting and fishing, working as a youth setting out about 75 acres of tobacco a year, and taking up between 10,000 and 15,000 square bales of hay each year along with another boat load of straw bales. I also have spent time doing both industrial and residential electric. Killed my first deer at 12, bought my first dirtbike at 13 (out of my own money), raised, and broke horses for extra money, as well as all of the other stupid things that young people do.

So while I guess I am an idiot for asking the question I am neither a kid nor am in in-experienced in life.

I have found over the years that FINDING someone who actually knows something can keep you from making a lot of stupid mistakes, and while a book can tell you how to do something they are typically kinda useless for comparing scenerio A to B.

So once again I am sorry that I bothered you. So just go ahead and ignore my question or have our host delete the thing and please do go back to your regularly scheduled what ever it is that you do!

[TCB in TN]

Handloading is not rocket science. The most basic things are be sure and get carbide pistol dies, get an RCBS Uniflow powder measure, and a Lee Prime All primer tool. I like Dillon brand spray case lube for rifles. The Lee case trimmers that fit in your drill are the way to go. Get a good scale, not a cheapy.

I am a huge fan of Varget for rifles. I use it for 30-30, 308, 243, and 223. Unique is a pretty good all around pistol powder as it 231. Unique is a little smokey for some people. I like it.

Just pay attention and make sure your scale is right. I have a large amount of 38 Special brass is you need some free brass. What part of TN are you in?

Thanks, I am in Cumberland County about 6 miles north of I 40. I appreciate the help.

[cjm135]

TCB,

I purchased the Lee Annerversary Kit. This will give you what you need. It will give a thick book about reloading that you can spend many of night reading. You will have to buy the Dies and supplies for each caliber.

Terry does make a good point about reading all you can about reloading. The first thing you did right was to come here and ask. There is a lot of dicussion about reloading on this site. Don't be afraid to ask, someone will have the answer. Good luck.

[jeepnik]

Well heck, I was gonna recommed Lyman's but Left beat me to it. Years ago, I picked up one called "The ABC's of Reloading". Don't know if it's still in print. It broke it down so even I could understand it. It's too bad the local community colleges don't have a class on it. It would have been great to have someone with alot of experience showing me how in the beginning. But nothing ever went boom so I guess I did okay.

[rjohns94]

I found a used Dillon progressive. I think the calibers you could start with would the .38/357 would give you most bang for the buck as compared to the other cartridges you listed. I like the progressive to crank out shootable quanitities of ammo in a min of time and effort. You will need good reloading books to help with the particulars of case length, primers, powders and charge. I like carbide dies. You can find several kits that give you basics. eventually you will want a tumbler to clean cases, case trimmer, loading blocks, primer pad, etc etc. I have a very min setup with press and scale and micrometer, tumbler. Eventually to get the most bang for buck, you will want to get some bullet casting equipment then you can really save the bucks. Bullets are going up in price daily. Good luck. Keep coming back with questions, there is a wealth of knowledge here.

[J Miller]

TCB in TN,

First of all I will echo the one above who said that hand loading is not rocket science. And you need to start with books. In this case books, real paper books, are your friend. When your computer crashes, your books will still work.

So, start by buying books. The Lyman book is great to start with. Speer, Sierra, Hornady, and others have how to in their books too. Once you get into the books and start reading you'll have a better idea on what questions you need to ask.

As far as equipment goes, stick with the major old line companies. Forster, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady. These companies not only make excellent products, but they stand behind their tools with warranties. RCBS and Lyman have never failed me when I've used their service department.
Penny pinching has no place in handing equipment. Buy top line quality equipment first and you'll never regret it.

Now, if you want to PM me and talk about this in depth, feel free. I've been loading my own for over 30 years and do not claim to know everything.

Joe

[RSY]

Not sure what all the fuss was about with your initial inquiry. Ignoring or ridiculing honest inquiries is how folks get hurt. Why? Because no one wants to be made a fool of, so they just keep their mouths shut and go on their merry, uninformed, dangerous way.

I'd be happy to help with any specific questions, as well. Feel free to PM me, if you so desire. I love discussing this stuff.

Scott

[TCB in TN]

Thanks for the all of the help guys, I am going to look around for a good deal on a single state press to get started. I have no qualms about reading all of the literature about hand loading, I am a bit of a nerd like that I tend to do my research on things, just looking for some ideas about where to get started.

[JReed]

Another vote for the Lee Aniversary kit It is a solid single stage with all of the basic stuff to get you started and wont break the bank leaving money for things like books and dies. As others have said read lots and lots before pulling the handl on your press. You will enjoy it more when you understand all the in's and outs also have your kids read the manuals that way they can enjoy shooting ammo they made. Reloading is a great way to get some family bonding time in.

[Ben_Rumson]

Single Stage Batch Loading Many un noticed things will show themselves with repitition..

[C. Cash]

Hi TCB in TN,

You'll get good advice here for sure. The advice to spend the time and read the manuals(Speer was the primary one that I studied) is good.. After reading the basics and acquiring some good gear, just start doing it in steps. In my own limited experience my RCBS gear has worked very well: Rock Chucker single stage press, Dies/shellholder, 505 Scale, Hand Prime tool and rotary case trimmer(you'll need a shell holder for the trimmer and a pilot to guide the case neck onto the cutter), deburring tool to take the sharp edge off the trimmed cases . If you want to shoot cast in a bottleneck rifle cartridges you'll need a neck expanding die to flare the case slightly. It also resizes the neck for the cast bullet so you have to make sure that the diameter of your bullet is fat enough to where it won't set back in the case. Bullet tension and seating depth can really effect accuracy, again in my most limited opinion. I also use the Lee Hand Trimmer for my 44 Mag cases as I'm too lazy to readjust the RCBS case trimmer when switching from the one rifle caliber that I load and shoot the most. Works great.

Thinking back over the 8 years or so I've been watching Terry type out his messages, I find that I usually need to read it again, let it sink in, read it again, and then I usually come to the conclusion that he's not insulting me at all but in his own way telling me what I need to know. Like him, I look forward to learning more from these responses. If you get stuck, you can sure email me too and I will tell you what I know or get someone who can help you. Oh....and use enough case lube! Don't ask me how I know!

[Griff]

Terry, you old crumudgeon! But, in some respects he's right. Most guys I know that reload do not do necessarily to save money, but rather, to custom tailor their ammo to their needs. I do both... I load a number of bullet styles in a couple of calibers and to really save any serious green, I feel you need to cast also. There's a serious time commitment to really craft quality handloaded ammo.

And, I also recommend that you get Lyman's Reloading Manual, and that would only be a starting point. I generally recommend that one get as many different reloading manuals as one can afford..., then buy another. Some would disregard that advice, but... I've learned something new from each book that I've read. I've even changed my methods when I've learned a better way of doing something.

As Lefty said, find yourself a "mentor" to show you the ropes. And I mean someone that KNOWS what they're doin', not someone that just claims to. I started reloading about 34 years ago with my .30-30s, then my 7mmRemington Mag, moved into my pistol calibers and then into various BP cartridges. The little .30-30 is a simple cartridge to learn with, whatever you can do wrong to any handload, you can do with the .30WCF... and you generally won't find yourself in serious trouble as long as you follow good reloading practices. This means organization and attention to minute details. Skip nothing, take nothing for granted, then double check.

If you want a good reminder of what can go wrong... look at this: Blown 1892 Winchester in .38WCF. There is nothing unique (poor choice of words maybe, but...), in the caliber that this occurred in, nor was there an apparent defect in the rifle. It appears to be quite simply, a handloading error of huge proportions. And it doesn't take a major error to have such a trajedy, simply a small oversight or ignoring a detail. It is a serious undertaking, one that one does a huge disservice to approach it lightly, with only a few pennies in mind.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, nor paranoid, but... I feel everyone that handloads should approach the job with caution and a view of the dangers that can be encountered. But, having said all that, there is nothing that beats the elation of taking game, winning a match, or just plain getting a great group with ammo that you've crafted yourself.

[Doc Hudson]

TCB,

You and a couple of other folks did not get what Terry meant. He was not insulting you, and his frustration comes from his vast experience. Just were the devil does a veteran handloader with his vast experience start to explain the subject to a beginner? If he starts talking to you as if you know nothing, you'd think he was being condescending. If he started talking at his level of experience, you'd probably understand about one sentence out of five. So don't let Terry's gruffness get under your skin. In all probability he is sitting at his reloading bench thinking about your dilemma and how to best answer your question.

Don't even think about deleting this question! You really don't know how lucky you are to be here. There are lots of experienced handloaders here, and in Paco Kelly, Jim Taylor, and Terry Murbach, we have three of the most knowledgeable ballistics experimenters in the country.

Terry will eventually chime in with his advise, as will Jim Taylor and Paco most likely. In the mean time, here is my advise.

Purchase a single-stage press kit from RCBS. I started with a Partner Press Kit and the RockChucker Starter Kit is even better. With two adolescent boys to act as labor, you probably won't need a progressive press until the younger one goes away to college. When you get your RCBS Starter Kit, you will get a Speer Reloading manual. Buy a couple more to go along with it. Before you even unpack the press, read the how-to section in all the manuals, and read up on all the calibers you will be loading. Having a knowledgeable friend to help is best, but you can learn from the books, I did, and I didn't have the Internet to give me access to more experienced handloaders.

I like RCBS equipment, and dies. I've had some unpleasant experiences with Lee .45 ACP dies so I especially recommend you not get Lee dies in that caliber. The RockChucker Kit will give you everything you need to get started except dies, and ammo components, you can add case trimmers, tumblers, calibers and other esoterica as the need arises. Read your manuals, be careful, don't be over bold, stay within manual guidelines for a few years and you will be alright. Just don't go pushing the envelop before you have some seasoning. As you gain experience, you can learn where you can push and where you'd better back off.

If Terry aggravates you some more, threaten to send Wes Dakota and his girlfriend Gertrude for a visit.

One more thing, do you by chance live in the Memphis area? If so, maybe we can get together for coffee next time I'm up there.

[C. Cash]

Good to see your posts Doc Hudson and +1. Not trying to change the subject, but just another thing to think about. I love RCBS and nearly all of my stuff is from them. However, they have been outsourcing some of their new stuff to China. I believe the frames of their presses are cast there and I've noticed some of their incidentals are made there. I have been told that it's hard to meet EPA standards here in the USA with the cast frames while still make a profit. I'm not sure about Redding but I'm sure there are all American made presses out there and companies which have not gone over. I look and investigate now before I buy, and refuse anything made there...not because I am racist as has been suggested on these types of posts, but simply because China will own us even more than it already does, if we don't stop what we're doing and turn things around. Just my .02.

[ceb]

I'm going with Doc, in more ways than one. I've also been loading for over 30yrs. Started with a RCBS Junior kit. Got great service out of it. When I went with Dillon progressives I give my old press to my nephew who is still using it. Now me and my wife are remodeling the house and I had to tear out my old reloading bench. I am not rebuilding it as before, so I sold my two Dillons and am going back with the RCBS Rockchucker Kit. Plan to use that the rest of my time on this earth.

[Old Ironsights]

Read all you can... but in the end all that is is reference data. You really need to have someone mentor you through the process.

I've never had a mentor, and after reading all the conflicting, product/author-specific "reference" material I can say I am really no better off other than in where to look when somthing goes wrong.

I'm a HUGE fan of beginning reloading on Classic Lee Loaders... mostly because you MUST understand each step along the way.

After that, progressing to Single stage then turret/progressive makes much more sense.

FWIW I started reloading by cranking out (literally) tens of thousands of .45ACP on a dedicated setup. But I learned jack squat until I got a Lee Loader. (not keen on R. Lee's manuals though...)

[AJMD429]

I started with the little Lee kits they sell for under $20 and you supply your own mallet (I used a broken hatchet handle). Made thousands of rounds with my first kit. The "hands on" intensity with that kit taught me to be comfortable with the overall process, and it IS hard to make a mistake with one of those kits. I was bad, and watched TV during much of the reloading (problem is it can divert attention to detail, but with those kits the process is so step-wise that it isn't likely you'll mess up anyway, as you basically SEE every step as it's being done.

Next I got a Lee "hand press" which made the process a bit faster and easier (and quieter); works like a large nutcracker or kind of a giant Lyman 310 tool. Uses regular dies.

Then stepped "up" to an RCBS rockchucker single-station press, which didn't speed things up any, or enable me to do anything the hand press didn't do, but forced me to set up a dedicated reloading bench, so I got more 'organized' and out of the 'platic totes' stage.

Then (now about 15 years have elapsed) got a Dillon progressive. Now 15 more years have elapsed (30 total since started reloading), and I'd yet to reload my first round on it (looks great on the bench, and I like their pro-gun political stance). I have used the little Lee hand tool to teach reloading basics to my kids, and make a few hundred rounds at a time of .38 for them to shoot, but the hassle of "setting up" the progressive has been a deterrent until I want to load several thousand rounds (and until recently I didn't have that much of ANY brass).

In the interim, I got a Lee "classic turret" press, and have started using it. It is as EASY to set up as the RCBS was, and I can still use my "primitive" dippers for powder charging (really as accurate as any volume measure out there, and unless you weigh each charge, not beatable for accuracy - VERY safe, as you're right there looking at and handling each case, rather than a machine doing it for you - KIND OF slow, but I still am in the "hundreds" rather than "thousands" as far as my reloading batch size). I can keep the dies on a turret ($9.00 each) and not have to adjust them each time I use them.

Seriously, I doubt that ANY major brand of equipment will be a problem; if I ever have a problem with my Lee stuff, I'll go with another brand for that caliber/operation, but every time I've had a bad reload, the fault has been MINE rather than any of the equipment.

[El Chivo]

I think what Terry meant by "pay attention" was not "pay attention to us" but "pay attention" when you're doing your reloading. An interruption can lead to a mistake. We just had a very experienced reloader fire off a double charge at the range last week, he could have killed somebody.

I just started reloading a year ago, I got a lot out of the Lee manual. There is a section in the front which explains the steps for reloading in an easy to understand manner. I've got a couple other manuals which give load data but don't explain anything. There a a few steps to case preparation that are important but not brought up anwhere else.

I got on the Midway site and ran searches on equipment, then I checked out their customer reviews. The descriptions helped me decide which would work best for me.

Here are the steps I go through to reload a round:

clean case
remove primer
deburr flash hole (once only)
chamfer case mouth (once only)
full-length size case
expand neck (for cast bullets in rifle rounds)
flare case mouth
weigh powder charge (I dip and weigh each round)
fill case

(after filling, check all cases at once for uniform, correct level. No empties or double charges!)

seat bullet
crimp bullet

There are equipment decisions you can make depending on your style of working.

Once you know what you need to do, you can figure out what you need to get the job done.

[2ndovc]

I know I repeating here but this is what I know.

I started reloading at 16- 17 with my Grandfathers's old Hollywod press a set of 38 spl and 45ACP dies and a Lyman reloading guide. My Dad showed me the basics but he was never really into it like Grandpa was. Most of what I've learned has come from manuals and trial and error.

Start simple and read everything you can get your hands on.


jb