Loading issues with Rossi 92

[bcraig]

I have a New Rossi 92 38Special/357 Magnum
When I am loading it sometime the Rounds refuse to push forward at all and feels like it is pushing against something solid.
I have not fired the gun yet ,just as a function test.

Does not seem to matter whether it is with 38 Special 158 grain round nose ammo or 38 Special 158 grain semiwadcutter or Remington 357 Magnum 158 ammo which leads me to believe that it is not related to bullet profile or length.

I took the rifle apart and took one coil off the Ejector spring and an inch and a half off of the Magazine spring to try and help the situation ,but while that helped with the amount of force needed to push a a round forward on the loading gate and into the Magazine and decrease the amount of force needed to depress the loading gate it did not help with the issue of the shell feeling like there is something that is physically keeping the round from going forward from the loading gate into the Magazine.

Most of the time I can load by pushing one round in using another round but not all the time.
Again ,most of the time,the shell will not load all the way and have to be pulled back out of the loading gate as it sure aint going forward any more.
This is mainly after loading 3 or 4 rounds.

Anyone got an Idea of what is Probably causing this ?And How I can fix this issue?

Thanks

[jeepnik]

Highly complicated. It’s new. Solution is to shoot, clean, repeat.

Now that you have re-engineered it don’t complain if either spring fails later.

Two of the biggest mistakes shooter make is to alter a firearm before it’s broken in and failure to keep it clean.

[bcraig]

Highly complicated. It’s new. Solution is to shoot, clean, repeat.

Now that you have re-engineered it don’t complain if either spring fails later.

Two of the biggest mistakes shooter make is to alter a firearm before it’s broken in and failure to keep it clean.

That is rediculous
I suppose if I had a new pickup and I could not raise the hood that the solutions n would be to drive it clean and repeat !

And no I have not re-engineered the carbine .
What I have done are very minor tweaks
And the carbine was doing the same things before I made did any minor tweaks to it.
I can’t in any form or fashion see how removing an inch and a half from the magazine spring would cause a failure of the spring or taking one coil off of the ejector spring would cause an early spring failure in either spring BUT if it does then I will buy a replacement spring for what ever fails.
It’s not a huge deal

And I wasn’t planning on complaining as I am a grown 64 year old man and bought this gun and if by some wild stretch of a vivid imagination I have ruined this gun then I will take responsibility .

I was merely asking for some advice on the issues that were already there before I bought the gun,

I joined this forum to learn and have fun
And that will remain my intent

[Rockrat]

Might have a burr on the mag follower or in the tube itself. Possibly a small dent in the mag tube under the forearm is putting a bind on the follower, or the tube might not be perfectly round, but a bit egg shaped and is binding the follower. I would pull the mag spring and follower and run it down the mag tube a few times and check for a bind.

[bcraig]

Might have a burr on the mag follower or in the tube itself. Possibly a small dent in the mag tube under the forearm is putting a bind on the follower, or the tube might not be perfectly round, but a bit egg shaped and is binding the follower. I would pull the mag spring and follower and run it down the mag tube a few times and check for a bind.

Thanks

[JimT]

Might have a burr on the mag follower or in the tube itself. Possibly a small dent in the mag tube under the forearm is putting a bind on the follower, or the tube might not be perfectly round, but a bit egg shaped and is binding the follower. I would pull the mag spring and follower and run it down the mag tube a few times and check for a bind.

Good idea.
Plus ... the Rossi's I've worked with have a plastic follower. I would replace it with a metal one. I have done that to my Rossi leverguns. I found I had to sand and polish the last metal one I used before it would slide smoothly through the tube.

[black river smith]

I had the very same problem with a new 38/357. I was working up bullets and lengths, trying them in the rifle for function. Well sometimes I could load one leaving the rim extend out so the second would push in. The second one had a problem jamming itself. The first bullet went in but second hit something and stopped. This also happened later in the feeding series. But the bullets I accepted and decide to use fed in and out nicely, I made certain of that. Then I went to the range, well it occurred at the range when the rifle sitting on the shelf. I had to work to get that live shell to come out the gate.

It took about 2 min to finally figure out what was different from home and decide what was going on. What I decide or noticed was that in inserting at certain times I would angle the cartridge to the left (if rifle was on a flat surface) or up (when loading while holding the rifle).

The real solution is to make certain the cartridge is loaded straight or centered when pushing into the action. At least it was that simple for me. Never had another issue loading a cartridge when I concentrated on this.

Not saying that a stripping and cleaning won't hurt any of the Rossi 92's for better functioning but......

[GunnyMack]

Did the feeding issue exist before you cut the spring? Did you put the cut end up or down into the follower? Put the cut on the muzzle end.
I agree you should check the mag tube, follower for dents, bumps, dings and burrs.

Get a dummy round or three and completely color case and bullet with a sharpie marker and try loading. The sharpie will scratch where there is contact with something. Could give you an idea of what/where the interference is.

[Grizz]

Kudos for the hands-on approach. I always figured I should be able to disassemble anything someone assembled, and I learn by using my hands . . . but I'd like to mention a trouble-shooting principle that helps me, and that is to never change two variables at once.... trouble shooting requires systematic investigation, one thing at a time. it might mean restoring a spring to its previous state to double-check. I know it's a pain sometimes, but alterations can compound issues. this is true with cars and boats and planes and electronics and stuff, i hope this is useful

† grizz

[Pisgah]

Maybe I have just been unique in my experience, but every one of the several dozen leverguns I have owned thru the decades has had the exact same "problem" when I was not being careful loading. Simply put, there's only one way a cartridge will go in, and while the way is easier to hit with some rifles than others, it'll still jam if you're not paying attention. Look at it closely; the cartridge sort of needs to "turn a corner" going in, and if you're not going at the correct angle, it'll get stopped.
Trimming springs, etc., is best saved for after you've diagnosed any other problem you may have.

[RIDERED350r]

I have noticed that my Henry 45-70 can sometimes be just a little fussy about loading through the side gate. My Winchesters (modern 1886, modern 1892, three 1894s of various eras and a Uberti 1876) seem to be more forgiving.

I've seen it said far and wide, including by my brother who owns one, that the Rossi's are sometimes lacking just a little bit in finishing touches. I wonder if there is something in the loading port that might not be beveled to the same degree as a Winchester? Just a shot in the dark guess on my part, but I don't have any issues loading 45 Colts on my modern Winchester 1892.

[bcraig]

Might have a burr on the mag follower or in the tube itself. Possibly a small dent in the mag tube under the forearm is putting a bind on the follower, or the tube might not be perfectly round, but a bit egg shaped and is binding the follower. I would pull the mag spring and follower and run it down the mag tube a few times and check for a bind.

Good idea.
Plus ... the Rossi's I've worked with have a plastic follower. I would replace it with a metal one. I have done that to my Rossi leverguns. I found I had to sand and polish the last metal one I used before it would slide smoothly through the tube.

Would you go with a steel follower or an aluminum Follower ?
Thanks Jim

[bcraig]

Might have a burr on the mag follower or in the tube itself. Possibly a small dent in the mag tube under the forearm is putting a bind on the follower, or the tube might not be perfectly round, but a bit egg shaped and is binding the follower. I would pull the mag spring and follower and run it down the mag tube a few times and check for a bind.

I have tried that now and do not notice that it has any binding on the follower

[bcraig]

Did the feeding issue exist before you cut the spring? Did you put the cut end up or down into the follower? Put the cut on the muzzle end.
I agree you should check the mag tube, follower for dents, bumps, dings and burrs.

Get a dummy round or three and completely color case and bullet with a sharpie marker and try loading. The sharpie will scratch where there is contact with something. Could give you an idea of what/where the interference is.

Yes it was like that before

I checked and it is real hard even with a magnafying glass to tell the difference but I am pretty sure that that is the way I put it back in

I will do the sharpie thing next and see if that discloses any thing

Thanks

[bcraig]

I had the very same problem with a new 38/357. I was working up bullets and lengths, trying them in the rifle for function. Well sometimes I could load one leaving the rim extend out so the second would push in. The second one had a problem jamming itself. The first bullet went in but second hit something and stopped. This also happened later in the feeding series. But the bullets I accepted and decide to use fed in and out nicely, I made certain of that. Then I went to the range, well it occurred at the range when the rifle sitting on the shelf. I had to work to get that live shell to come out the gate.

It took about 2 min to finally figure out what was different from home and decide what was going on. What I decide or noticed was that in inserting at certain times I would angle the cartridge to the left (if rifle was on a flat surface) or up (when loading while holding the rifle).

The real solution is to make certain the cartridge is loaded straight or centered when pushing into the action. At least it was that simple for me. Never had another issue loading a cartridge when I concentrated on this.

I will keep this in mind
Thanks

Not saying that a stripping and cleaning won't hurt any of the Rossi 92's for better functioning but......

[bcraig]

Kudos for the hands-on approach. I always figured I should be able to disassemble anything someone assembled, and I learn by using my hands . . . but I'd like to mention a trouble-shooting principle that helps me, and that is to never change two variables at once.... trouble shooting requires systematic investigation, one thing at a time. it might mean restoring a spring to its previous state to double-check. I know it's a pain sometimes, but alterations can compound issues. this is true with cars and boats and planes and electronics and stuff, i hope this is useful

† grizz

Thanks

[JimT]

Would you go with a steel follower or an aluminum Follower ?
Thanks Jim

I have always used steel. Didn't know anyone made an aluminum one but I never checked ....

[bcraig]

Might have a burr on the mag follower or in the tube itself. Possibly a small dent in the mag tube under the forearm is putting a bind on the follower, or the tube might not be perfectly round, but a bit egg shaped and is binding the follower. I would pull the mag spring and follower and run it down the mag tube a few times and check for a bind.

Good idea.
Plus ... the Rossi's I've worked with have a plastic follower. I would replace it with a metal one. I have done that to my Rossi leverguns. I found I had to sand and polish the last metal one I used before it would slide smoothly through the tube.

Both good Ideas

I also think that I probably need to remove the forearm and the magazine tube itself to see if there is a major burr or a sharp edge on the the entrance to the magazine tube,If not I will just put it back .
Are there any things I need to watch out for when disassembling or assembling the tube to have a looksee ?

[Grizz]

for finish work i start with 400 or 600 grit wet or dry paper and use popsicle sticks and dowels to help keep the contours, and small files, some with diamond grit, for getting the shape in shape. do you know blue fitting? it works with sharpies, but there is a dye that machinists use. it shows the high spots on wearing surfaces. like those breech block pins that show wear.

as far as followers, i quite like the orange ones, they are very informative. i have steel ones in the guns that came with them. but i don't swap them because orange ones have never had a hitch and they seem to slide very well. if they never fail they will get to stay in there past caring.

†

[bcraig]

I had the very same problem with a new 38/357. I was working up bullets and lengths, trying them in the rifle for function. Well sometimes I could load one leaving the rim extend out so the second would push in. The second one had a problem jamming itself. The first bullet went in but second hit something and stopped. This also happened later in the feeding series. But the bullets I accepted and decide to use fed in and out nicely, I made certain of that. Then I went to the range, well it occurred at the range when the rifle sitting on the shelf. I had to work to get that live shell to come out the gate.

It took about 2 min to finally figure out what was different from home and decide what was going on. What I decide or noticed was that in inserting at certain times I would angle the cartridge to the left (if rifle was on a flat surface) or up (when loading while holding the rifle).

The real solution is to make certain the cartridge is loaded straight or centered when pushing into the action. At least it was that simple for me. Never had another issue loading a cartridge when I concentrated on this.
QUOTE

I just sat down and went very slowly and while I was pushing the shell into the the loading gate I wiggled the end of the shell to the left and the right while applying forward pressure to the shell and by doing so was able to put 9 of the 38 Special shells into the magazine but the something is still catching and the rear of the shell has to be wiggled after 4 rounds or so.

The good is that I can load the carbine without very much trouble

The bad is that it is slow and something is still catching the shell somewhere.
I need to find out what that is and fix.

BUT, I am for right now able to fully load the Carbine without a lot of trouble and able to load without having to dig the round back out of the loading gate.

Thank you much for telling me about this





I will keep this in mind
Thanks

Not saying that a stripping and cleaning won't hurt any of the Rossi 92's for better functioning but......

[GunnyMack]

for finish work i start with 400 or 600 grit wet or dry paper and use popsicle sticks and dowels to help keep the contours, and small files, some with diamond grit, for getting the shape in shape. do you know blue fitting? it works with sharpies, but there is a dye that machinists use. it shows the high spots on wearing surfaces. like those breech block pins that show wear.

as far as followers, i quite like the orange ones, they are very informative. i have steel ones in the guns that came with them. but i don't swap them because orange ones have never had a hitch and they seem to slide very well. if they never fail they will get to stay in there past caring.

†

DYKEM but it tends to be a bit thick and can sometimes give false readings.

[bcraig]

Would you go with a steel follower or an aluminum Follower ?
Thanks Jim

I have always used steel. Didn't know anyone made an aluminum one but I never checked ....

I found one Made by 'Ranger Point' but upon closer look although it fits The Rossi 92 they dont have one in 38 /357
So Stainless it will be !

Thanks

[mickbr]

my second 357 needed serious thumb power to load until a smith friend of mine addressed a burr in the mag tube. The sharp load gate was also contributing to the issue. I left the springs tight on all of mine. Not sure if shortening them can affect loading but as mine disgested every COAL so well I didnt want to mess with it

[Pat C]

Couple things not making since , one the mag tube edge is protected from the counter bore it sits in.Rounds never touch the tube edge. The follower steps down and passes through the smaller bore .

If your hitting tube edge it's either damaged/dented, or not seated against receiver counterbore. The old Rossi's had steel followers exactly like the original. You should never have to cut magazine spring.

You didn't take the left cartridge guide out did you?
If so you may not have the guide spring in right.

The first round and last round can stick diagonal on any 1892, a thumb is too big to push the cartridge in to capture it on top of carrier against its shoulder.

Best to take first finger and push until the cartridge head is against carrier shoulder.

The 1892 has a nice bevel on each side of the follower bore ,if nose of cartridge hits that it should push follower inside tube and let cartridge go on in.

Open the action stopping before carrier is cammed upward,push a cartridge in and watch where it's hitting.

Few pictures inside action with carrier down may identify the problem .

[black river smith]

bcraig,

Just saw your 'Quote' of my posting and your comments. I am glad it worked 'somewhat' for you. I am still trying to get my rifle apart to check the interiors to see if there are burrs. I can't get the darn lever/bolt link pin to break loss on this rifle. Have not had this much trouble on two other Rossi's. But, I am thankful I did finally buy a 357/38 rifle.

Hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction.
Black River Smith

PS -- Please read around the internet about these new model Rossi 357. Search case bulging on Rossi 357's. Basically, if you use factory 357 loads the cases will have bad bulges that may hinder any reloading. My rifle does show a chamber that is enlarged, I believe this is done to allow easier/faster bullet chambering. People have sent guns back and gotten responses that this is factory spec., now. I downloaded my 357 loads to SASS level (mid-range 357 load) and the brass still had noticeable bulge. Just use this as a warning.

[bcraig]

Couple things not making since , one the mag tube edge is protected from the counter bore it sits in.Rounds never touch the tube edge. The follower steps down and passes through the smaller bore .

Yes I saw that after taking the Magazine tube off

If your hitting tube edge it's either damaged/dented, or not seated against receiver counterbore. The old Rossi's had steel followers exactly like the original. You should never have to cut magazine spring.

The tube is not damaged /dented and is seated flush against the reciever counterbore although it seems like only the front barrel band is all that keeps the magazine tube from moving.
The reason that I took 1-1/2 inch off the magazine is that I referred to numerous soueces that claim that the Magazine spring on the 16 inch barrel is the same as the magazine spring on the 20 inch barrel barrel version
So I figured it would not hurt anything to shorten it a little and hopefully make it easier to load.

You didn't take the left cartridge guide out did you?
If so you may not have the guide spring in right.

No I did not remove either of the 2 guides or the lifter ,although it does appear that the shell is hitting to the left of the Magazine more than it should be from my pics,and that is why it sometimes it feels like it is hitting something solid ,because it is hitting so far to the left of the magazine tube,both with 38 special and 357 Magnum.
Suggestions ?

The first round and last round can stick diagonal on any 1892, a thumb is too big to push the cartridge in to capture it on top of carrier against its shoulder.

I have tried using my thumb,my finger and another shell,the only thing that seems to work is pushing down on the front of the shell when loading it and at the same time wiggling the base of the shell with my thumb of the same hand.

Best to take first finger and push until the cartridge head is against carrier shoulder.

The 1892 has a nice bevel on each side of the follower bore ,if nose of cartridge hits that it should push follower inside tube and let cartridge go on in.
It seems as though the Shell may be contacting the bevel too far to the left of the bevel and that by wiggling of my thumb while pushing forward that the bullets nose gets closer to the centerline of the bore so then the shell goes right in?

Open the action stopping before carrier is cammed upward,push a cartridge in and watch where it's hitting.

I opened the action then pushed the follwer down with a penciland took the pics .

Few pictures inside action with carrier down may identify the problem .

Oictures of Remington 357 Magnum 158 GR Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint after being cycled 5 times through the rifle.
And Pictures of HSM 38 Special 158 Grain Round Nose Flat Point after being cycled 10 times/15 Brinell Hardness.




The pics were taken in order with the Remington 357 Magnum 158 Hollowpoint first then followed by the HSM 38 Special 158 grain Round nose flat point.

Do these pics Help to show what is happening?

[Pat C]

I notice a complete design change over my old Puma , looks like they have changed barrel chamber detail, ejector, carrier, loading port . None of which match my .357 PUMA .

I'm thinking the bullet nose is either hitting that strange shoulder on the carrier or the left receiver wall doesn't have proper bevel at follower bore mouth.

I would take it back down and let's take a close look at that carrier and inside the receiver at the follower bore. It should have a nice bevel on both sides of the bore where the follower enters.

There are usually many machining burrs inside the frame at least that used to be the case.

The other is you need some action proving dummy cartridges to test loading/feeding .

You can compare my older PUMA .357 which is made basically like the WRA small cal 1892 design.