30-30 bullet performance

[Old Savage]

At what range or velocity do 30-30 bullets reliably open on game.

[O.S.O.K.]

Not sure of the why behind your question, but I'd think velocity is the way to go for the answer. Range would have to have a caveat of which caliber you're talking about - 30-30, .307 Win, or other 30 caliber cartridge.

For the 30-30, I don't worry about it as I don't take shots beyond 200 yards but am confident that they will do the job with good placement.

And of course, that's the other variable - shot placement - a shoulder shot will open a bullet more reliably than a rib shot between the ribs....

Sorry - that's not much of an answer.... I do recall an article in Handloader or Shooting Times ? I think it was Rick Jameson - so ST, but anyhoo he tested a whole bunch of 30 caliber bullets for expansion at a high and low velocity - and I think IIRC that he included some 170 grain fp bullets - the rest were 180...

[1886]

Assuming 2200fps max. muzzle velocity with a 170gr .30-30 specific bullet, at 200yrds that bullet is roughly traveling 1800-1600fps depending on manufacturer and meplate design. Approx. figures but close enough. 1886.

[Old Savage]

OSOK - the why is I have tried to hunt with most of my rifles but the not used the 30-30. No one does out here. But if you know the performance range you can tailor your efforts in areas that it will be fine. So many here have a range of experience but I haven't heard this addressed. I have shot this rifle much more after being here for the last couple of years. It has over 600 rds through it but all at the range.

I read the Jamison article and may have it - don't recall the 170s - I thought it was all 180s. I was surprised to see that the Win PP was one of the top performers across the range of velocities.

[runfiverun]

your regular bullets perform very well at regular velocities.....
the makers of bullets are actually good at designing a bullet for cartridges , the hard part for us is figuring out what cartridge they were meant for.
like the speer 8mm 200 gr bullet it was designed for the 8mm rem mag not the 8mm mauser.
you can use it in the mauser but it needs good velocity to upset so it is a short range proposition.
as if you use it much past 200 yds it will penetrate very well but do no damage as it passes through.

[Hobie]

IME, to at least 150 yards. As with other guns there are variables but I haven't had or seen any problems. Placement is the key though, always is.

[Bigahh]

According to the Nosler manual, the Nosler Partition 170 grain 30-30 bullet will reliably open up at 200 yards with a muzzle speed of 1900 fps. That bullet must have a thin jacket up front.

[Old Time Hunter]

Hey, didn't Teddy Roosevelt say that the .30-30 was just fine for taking deer at 300 to 350 yards? Maybe they made 'em different back then.

Seriously though, if you know the section density and property of material, you can figure out the force needed to displace the form. Then you can judge the distance by relating the energy vs. the velocity which decreases as the distance increases. Or to make it simpler, how fast do you have to swing a hammer to squish that bullet against an object with the density of an animal. Betcha' it isn't as much as would think.

It is definately sub-sonic....probably closer to half that speed with soft lead, thin jacketed soft point bullets.

'Course penetration is another thing all together.

[woods-walker]

I have never had a .30wcf bullet failure from Winchester/Hornady/Speer/Remington. In fact, never heard of a good rifleman speaking of a problem with these bullets on game.

[86er]

All the 150 and 170 gr bullets I have seen that were made for the 30-30, and recovered in game, expanded at least somewhat. With that in mind I can't think of a shot that was over 150 yards. Now if you want to shoot pointy 110's or cast 195's at 2000fps and 1500 fps respectively, like I've been doing, who knows what you can expect. The 110's seemed to open up on the shoulder shot and stay intact on the soft tissue shots. That's just one animals though, and the range was about 30 yards.

[El Chivo]

I was reading on the Chuck Hawks site that he uses 150's because they open up better on deer, i.e., the extra velocity makes a difference.

I don't know that from experience, but that stuck in my mind.

Starting Tuesday we have to be using those copper things and it's my understanding they have to be going faster to open. However Barnes says they open reliably right at the hide.

[O.S.O.K.]

Here's a handy site - Remington's ballistics information on their 30-30 loads: http://www.remington.com/products/ammun ... ire&cal=27

As already mentioned, I stick with 200 yards or closer. If you sight in for 2.5" at 100 yards (above the bull), it will zero at about 175 and only be a couple of inches low at 200.

I choose the 170's because they penetrate a bit better from odd angles - and as you can see, they retain velocity better out past 100 yards.

The bullets used for the 30-30's are designed to upset at very low velocities - they are only loafing along at 1600 fps at 200 yards but will open reliably anyway.

And note - the retained kinetic energy is just a hair below 1000 foot pounds at 200 - and then drops quicky.

All that is why I say 200 yards.

I can make 200 yard shots on deer sized game quite easily from a field supported position too - with the standard sights. It should be cake if you're using a 2 or 4x scope.

And I recommend practicing that way - get off of the bench at the range and shoot from sitting or bring a matt and lay down and shoot off of a small pack like you'de use while hunting.

If you are hunting from a blind - practice resting the your forehand on the front rest and unsupported in the rear - just off of your shoulder like you would in a stand.

I think you will be hunting with a 30-30 more often after you give it a try.

The kick is mild, the report is mild, the leverguns are very light and it is very effective.

[w30wcf]

A friend of mine's daughter killed a doe several years back at around 250 yards with a scoped .30-30. She shot the deer in a field in front of their camp using a rest. My friend said that he told her aim the crosshairs to "show a little light over the top of the back". The deer folded at the shot. He told me that the bullet performance was very good at that distance.

She was using either Rem or Win factory ammo. I don't know what gr. bullet.

w30wcf

[L.F.Combs]

It depends on the bullet design. A Winchester 150 grain Power Point will open, and stop easier than say a 170 grain Nolser Partition. I use a great deal of the 150 grain power points, but I work my loads to the job at hand. They are cheap in bulk, and work good. The three absolute best I like are Nosler Partition- they will work in most any situation. Hornady's round nose, and Sierra Pro Hunters. As long as you place the shot right, and don't try a foolish shot like 400 yards these three will do the job just fine. I use the 180 grain Pro Hunter Sierra in one of my favorite .30-30 loads. You can get more indepth on each individual design, but let's face it these three will be the best all around bullets.

[Griff]

I load my 150s to around 2200fps. The other load I absolutely love is the one I keep for coyotes. Sierra's 125 HP loaded to around 2500fps. These S-M-O-K-E! I used to worry about how they'd hold together, or would they destroy hides. Well, one morning about 0530 while in the shower I noticed a coyote at the plum tree. Gorgin' himself on the ones on the ground; I got dressed, grabbed a .30-30 and loaded up a few rounds, snuck out thru the garage, the front of the house, and raised up over a brick wall extension at about 25 feet. Pulled the hammer back to full and let 'im have it. Picked him up, did a couple of flips and plop! DRT. Bullet was inside the hide on the far side, but it'd scrambled his insides. I've also taken 'em at around 125 yards with nearly the same effect. I tend to limit myself to 125 yards on coyotes as they can be fairly small targets, (I don't like to miss) But, on deer, with the 150s, 200 ain't unreasonable with good sights. I use a tang peep and a globe with a very fine "T" post for a front sight. With open sights, that 125 yard range is my personal limit. Not to say I haven't misjudged in the past... but I won't EVER do that again... yea, right!

And, hey... Mr. Combs, 400... foolish... do I have a story for you!

[Don McDowell]

Hate to break the internet protocol and speak from experience , but I have seen the factory offerings in 150 and 170 from Hornady, Remington, Winchester, and Federal work at 200+ yds , and even witnessed a couple of deer die from one of them almost foolish yardage shots.
For the most part if you use factory loads or reload component bullets made for the 30-30, they'll work just fine for about as far as you can make a good hit in hunting conditions and shooting positions with them.

[O.S.O.K.]

Speaking from experience... how many deer have you seen wounded and run off after being shot "at" with a 30-30 out past 200 yards?

Read you're own description of an event - "aim the crosshairs to "show a little light over the top of the back"." - I bet he knew the range exactly and was absolutely sure of that...

Lets be honest guys - its really best to stay within the intended range of the rifle/cartridge to increase your chances of a good shot.

And this is not some dis on the 30-30 - the fact of the matter is that most hunters really shouldn't be taking shots past 200 yards with any rifle.... not that I'm saying that about anybody here.

Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should - speaking from experience.

[Don McDowell]

Speaking from experience... how many deer have you seen wounded and run off after being shot "at" with a 30-30 out past 200 yards?
.

Not a single one. Elk and antelope neither.
Now if you want to start in about "experience" and nasty blood trails and lost game from folks that think just because their darn guns cartridge has a belt, premium bullet,kicks like a bay mule, and a 500 dollar scope mounted on top we can take a few minutes.

You like ballistics tables, maybe you can tell us which cartridge carries more energy, and has the bullet with the better sectional density, the almighty 44 magnum hadgun or the piddly little 30-30 and its 150 and 170 gr bullets? Give you a hint one of em has more good numbers going for it at 100yds than the other does at the muzzle.
The 30-30 hasn't been in continuous production since 1895 simply because its maybe a 100 yd gun

[t.r.]

I found that 150 grain Winchester SilverTip expands explosively at close distances, up to about 75 yards or so. But at 150 yards, it behaves like any other bullet.

The 170 grain bullets by Remington produce fairly narrow wound channels at 150 yards or farther. The 170 grain hollow tip by Remington was not as impressive as I thought it would be. Seems like a very shallow hollow tip design compared to revolver bullets. In contrast, 170 grain Winchester Power Point makes large holes at all distances.

FEDERAL Classic ammo in 170 grain is quite accurate and a good choice, too. Wound channels are about the same as Remington core-lockt.

I really like the 150 grain Remington core-lockt bullet BEST of all for accuracy and performance. I've only shot 3 mulies at or beyond the 200 yard mark with my 30-30 carbine. In each case, I deliberately shot into the shoulder to strike bone as an aid to bullet upset. The animals didn't get away.

I hand-loaded Sierra 125 grain pointed bullet for use as a single shot for safety. It does shoot flatter than anything else I've tried but doesn't really match my style of hunting. I'm no fan of the single shot handicap. The two 'lopes I toppled with this oddball ammo went down fast.

Hornady's new pointed bullet is reported to expand quite well at 200 yards and beyond but I have zero first hand experience to relate.

This is my Winchester Legacy with AE feature. A genuine KEEPER!!

TR

[Pete44ru]

[the fact of the matter is that most hunters really shouldn't be taking shots past 200 yards with any rifle.... ]

A much sadder fact is that most hunters I've queried over the last fifteen years couldn't reliably tell the difference between 200yds and 300yds, without either pacing it off or using a rangefinder.

A few years ago, in Maine, I jumped a huge buck in a thick brushy mess right next to an open, plowed, 200yard-wide field, that the buck took off across - right near where I had posted an older gentleman with a .30-06, for just that eventuality.
I heard him shoot once.
When I came out to congratulate him - no deer.
It turned out that he missed, because he "had to hold too many feet over the deer's back, being about 600 yards away ! "

I, too, am returning to the .30-30 for the bulk of my deer hunting.

I have friends that like to perch where they can see game pass, miles away - but I'm not there for sight-seeing, and prefer hunting where game must be within 100yds to even be seen.
And that's the territory of the ole thutty-thutty, fer sure !

[L.F.Combs]

Well it seems I angered a few with my comment. I am sorry, but I stand by what I said that 400 yard shot with a .30-30 is a foolish shot. After 300 yards a .30-30 is going to be loosing steam, and is not 100% at taking an animal. Now with the new leverevolution rounds I would take a shot at 200 yards, but I would have to have a scope on the rifle, and that would be a max. distance. JMO

[44LVR]

the why is I have tried to hunt with most of my rifles but the not used the 30-30. No one does out here.

I find that surprising. Around here it is not just popular and used regularly for deer, but for elk also.

44

[Nath]

Well Old Sav I can not believe you ain't used that 30wcf yet on a critter Shame on you
Just go and whack someink with it (after a little practice ofcourse).

Nath

[TomD]

Obviously 400 yards is a bit crazy. A good rifleman would be pushed to shoot iron sight from field positions within 3 minutes of angle. That pretty much uses up the whole cushion on deer without factoring in any other sources of eror, like range misestimation, wind, etc...

The thing with rifles is designing the performance envelope. You can probably have bullet performance at 500 yards, but it may overdo it at shorter ranges.

I'm shooting the 150 barnes, and expect good performance out to 150 and beyond.

[O.S.O.K.]

Speaking from experience... how many deer have you seen wounded and run off after being shot "at" with a 30-30 out past 200 yards?
.

Not a single one. Elk and antelope neither.
Now if you want to start in about "experience" and nasty blood trails and lost game from folks that think just because their darn guns cartridge has a belt, premium bullet,kicks like a bay mule, and a 500 dollar scope mounted on top we can take a few minutes.

You like ballistics tables, maybe you can tell us which cartridge carries more energy, and has the bullet with the better sectional density, the almighty 44 magnum hadgun or the piddly little 30-30 and its 150 and 170 gr bullets? Give you a hint one of em has more good numbers going for it at 100yds than the other does at the muzzle.
The 30-30 hasn't been in continuous production since 1895 simply because its maybe a 100 yd gun

Wow - 300 yard shots at those game and they all dropped at the shot right? The 30-30 is a magic caliber that defies physics and is weilded by extraordinary individuals... OK. And where in my replies did I mention any of the paper tigers you put up to knock down? premium bullets? - no, belted cartridge - no, 500 dollar scope? - 44 magnum? - no, saying that the 30-30 is a 100 yard gun?-- again, no. WTF?

What's the point of responding if you're just going to bring in things so that you're argument looks good, regardless of the fact that I didn't mention any of it?

Kinda makes you look like you don't really have a good response... although I do agree mostly with what you said following the first sentence, it doesn't matter given the point that I was making.

And I still stick by it - it is best to stay within 200 yards with the 30-30 if you want the best results.

[Don McDowell]

Hey boy, how did you take from my saying that I've seen 30-30 bullets work well at distance, to turning it into my running around crippling lots of animals? Best you go back and reread what I wrote to start with.
No son I don't believe I'm the one with the attitude problem.

[O.S.O.K.]

attitude? I didn't say that you 'boy" made crippling shots at distance. You go back and read. I think I'm spot on to the posts and replies and you're the one that's off... And I doubt you're old enough to be my father...

You sir are the one that implied that those advocating keeping the shots to 200 yards had no experience and were talking out of our rear ends. So you get a response to that and you're surprised?

OK then...

[Don McDowell]

Get back to me someday pup when you've actually used a 30-30 ok?

[O.S.O.K.]

There you go again. "pup"? Where do you get off?

And the very first deer I ever shot was taken with a 30-30.

The question might be "how many types of rifle and calibers have you hunted with?"

Have a good 4th!

[Don McDowell]

I'll just bet it was.....

[O.S.O.K.]

I'll just bet it was.....

That's pretty much your answer to everything that you can't defend - insult the other guy.

Sad.

[Last Spike]

My take on this is that the manufacturers got the design and alloys right with the 30-30 with the sweet spot for speed 1600-1800 fps at about 75-125 yards, give or take a few yards or so.

I'm satisfied with the performance I'm getting.

[Rusty]

Marlin's add copy sez:


Model 336XLR

Chambered for the 30/30 and, new for 2007, in 35 Rem., it features a 5-shot tubular magazine, 24" stainless steel barrel, along with stainless steel receiver, trigger, trigger guard plate, magazine tube, loading gate, and lever. It has a pistol grip, swivel studs, Ballard-type rifling and a precision fluted bolt. It also features a solid top receiver with side-ejection, adjustable folding semi-buckhorn rear sight, a ramp front sight, and is tapped for scope mount. LEVEREVOLUTION® ammo has turned the venerable 30/30 and the potent 35 Rem. into 250+ yard deer rifles!

I know this is with this set up but it makes ya wonder how much a pointed bullet and 4 extra inches of barrel could be worth?

[Travis Morgan]

I load my 150s to around 2200fps. The other load I absolutely love is the one I keep for coyotes. Sierra's 125 HP loaded to around 2500fps. These S-M-O-K-E! I used to worry about how they'd hold together, or would they destroy hides. Well, one morning about 0530 while in the shower I noticed a coyote at the plum tree. Gorgin' himself on the ones on the ground; I got dressed, grabbed a .30-30 and loaded up a few rounds, snuck out thru the garage, the front of the house, and raised up over a brick wall extension at about 25 feet. Pulled the hammer back to full and let 'im have it. Picked him up, did a couple of flips and plop! DRT. Bullet was inside the hide on the far side, but it'd scrambled his insides. I've also taken 'em at around 125 yards with nearly the same effect.

Any chance you'd share that load?

[Jaguarundi]

I load my 150s to around 2200fps. The other load I absolutely love is the one I keep for coyotes. Sierra's 125 HP loaded to around 2500fps. These S-M-O-K-E! I used to worry about how they'd hold together, or would they destroy hides. Well, one morning about 0530 while in the shower I noticed a coyote at the plum tree. Gorgin' himself on the ones on the ground; I got dressed, grabbed a .30-30 and loaded up a few rounds, snuck out thru the garage, the front of the house, and raised up over a brick wall extension at about 25 feet. Pulled the hammer back to full and let 'im have it. Picked him up, did a couple of flips and plop! DRT. Bullet was inside the hide on the far side, but it'd scrambled his insides. I've also taken 'em at around 125 yards with nearly the same effect.

Any chance you'd share that load?

+1 I would luv to know your loading data also rifle make.

[Old Savage]

I believe it was in the green Nosler manual on the 30-30 that the author wrote about having a Ruger #1 in 30-30 and not wanting to publish the velocity of 125 gr. BTs but he seemed to favor it as a varmint rifle.

[6pt-sika]

Well Old Sav I can not believe you ain't used that 30wcf yet on a critter Shame on you
Just go and whack someink with it (after a little practice ofcourse).

Nath

I live in central Virginia and many folks use 30-30's around here still !

My self I had never owned a 30-30 until I was maybe 39 . I've killed a very decent number of deer over the years , but had never killed a deer with a 30-30 until I was 40 . And of the ones I've killed , one was done in with home cast bullet (my first with the 30WCF) , the next was killed with a Winchester 150 grain Silvertip in my 336Y and finally the third was killed using the Hornady rubber tipped stuff in my 336XLR .

In my own situation it isn't a matter of liek or dislike a particular caliber , I usually have a couple others laying around that I want to try ! In many other calibers !

I used to hunt almost exclusively with my little Remington stainless synthetic Model 7 in 260 REM , killed close to 40 deer with this little rifle . But I have not had a chance to use it in the last 3 or 4 years from wanting to try other things !

[Old Savage]

Like this one?

[Nath]

OOoooh you should not show me pics of model sevens, thats cruel. I fancy one in 223. No stop me, slap me.....

Nath.

[Old Savage]

You'll love it. I had to bed this one to get it to shoot better than about 1 1/2" - now quite accurate. I think in a test I read the 223s were more accurate out of the box.

[O.S.O.K.]

I just finished a Swede 94 sporter (bought already chopped and in needy condition) - it's got a 17.75" barrel - in 6.5x55 of course. Kind of a milsurp Model 7

I loaded up some 129 grain Hornady spire point loads to test just a short time ago. Boy does this rifle have a long lead - I seated the bullets out .005" off the lands and they're way out of the case.

I'm not sure what kind of velocity I'll get with it - maybe 2500-2600 fps with these bullets. That's plenty though.

Savage -that's a nice rifle. Is it also chambered in .260 Rem?

[Old Savage]

Mine is a 7-08. 130s shoot very well with good velocity. Yours is right on with the Model 7. The boys here like the 120s for the smallish deer around here in the 260. I am sure yours will great though. Let me know what they chronograph. The Gunshop owner here and his son and grandson all shoot 260s.

[Don McDowell]

OS those model 7's like yours and in 260 are pretty popular in this part of the world for starting younger shooters, and ol folks that like the lite weight as well. A friend of mine got his grandson one in 260 a few years back, and that young feller has a wall full of trophies that lil rifle has collected.

[6pt-sika]

Like this one?

Yep thats what I've got except with a 3-9 Swarovski on top !



The 260's on the bottom , my 300 RSUM which is also a Model 7 is just above . I have a 7mm RSUM also just like the 300 but no picture I can find right now , but on the outside it looks no different !

[6pt-sika]

I just finished a Swede 94 sporter (bought already chopped and in needy condition) - it's got a 17.75" barrel - in 6.5x55 of course. Kind of a milsurp Model 7

I loaded up some 129 grain Hornady spire point loads to test just a short time ago. Boy does this rifle have a long lead - I seated the bullets out .005" off the lands and they're way out of the case.

I'm not sure what kind of velocity I'll get with it - maybe 2500-2600 fps with these bullets. That's plenty though.

Savage -that's a nice rifle. Is it also chambered in .260 Rem?

When the 260 first came out I had a pair of rifles . The model 7 I have now and a stainless model 700 . Anyway I tried every 6.5mm bullet I could lay my hands on in both of them . And believe it or not they liked everything from 100 grains up to 160 grains .

The model 7 was used the first year with the Nosler 120 grain BT . I killed 3 deer with it the first year with that bullet and then the second year I had one give me problems with that bullet . So I switched to the Nosler 125 grain Partition and have not had an ounce of problem since . To be fair to the 120 BT I think I actually had it loaded a little to hot and shot the deer way to close and the bullet blew up on the shoulder as I was shooting almost straight down on him !

As far as that Hornady 129 grainer is concerned I prefer the 129 SST over the lead tipped one , but thats just me ! I have had really good results with the Hornady 129 SST and Barnes 130 X in a 264 WIN MAG .

[Old Savage]

Batteries weren't included with mine.

[6pt-sika]

Marlin's add copy sez:


Model 336XLR

Chambered for the 30/30 and, new for 2007, in 35 Rem., it features a 5-shot tubular magazine, 24" stainless steel barrel, along with stainless steel receiver, trigger, trigger guard plate, magazine tube, loading gate, and lever. It has a pistol grip, swivel studs, Ballard-type rifling and a precision fluted bolt. It also features a solid top receiver with side-ejection, adjustable folding semi-buckhorn rear sight, a ramp front sight, and is tapped for scope mount. LEVEREVOLUTION® ammo has turned the venerable 30/30 and the potent 35 Rem. into 250+ yard deer rifles!

I know this is with this set up but it makes ya wonder how much a pointed bullet and 4 extra inches of barrel could be worth?

I own one of each caliber they have chambered the XLR in to date .

I have also killed deer with them all and have shot the Leverevolution ammo in them all !
I've used the rubber tipped stuff for deer in the 30-30 , 35 , 450 and 308 EX .
Now let me say to date they work great "for deer" as far as any other is concerned I cannot say ! I also cannot respond to whether or not they are a death ray at 250+ yards . I used them in normal eastern yardages not over grain feilds or green fields or cutovers or whatever .

So I tend to take that 250+ yards with a grain of salt .

Now we have a gentleman on marlinowners that knocked over a couple deer last year at the far side of 350 yards with the 308EX in a couple cut cornfields in Nebraska I believe . And from what I understand they performed very well . Also another guy went to Colorado and knocked over a pretty decent 5x5 bull elk at about 150 yards . So the 308 Express seems to be okay "if you practice restraint" until you get a really good shot .

[6pt-sika]

Batteries weren't included with mine.

For some reason my Nikon Digi Cam sucks the life out of them real quick

And I took a bunch of pics that night

[6pt-sika]

OS , I have killed quite a few deer with the Model 7 in 300 RSUM . And I had another 7mm RSUM a coupleyears ago but never killed a deer with it (about 5 red fox thou). Anyway I picked up a NIB stainless Model 7 in 7mm RSUM about 4 months ago and am really intrested to se how it will perform on Virginia WT's . I am sure it will most likely do about the same as my old Kimber 89BGR in 280 REM did . But still I have never wacked a deer with the 7mm RSUM .

Also have a new to me Remington 700BDL Stainless SYnthetic in 264 WIN MAG that I got about 4 months ago as well . I had one of these before and killed a couple deer with it , but I wanna try this one also !








I also have a little stainless synthetic Model 70 in 25 WSSM that I've had a couple years now that needs to kill something also !




I haven't killed a deer with a bolt action in about 2 years now but 2008 might be the year to return

[Old Savage]

No idea they made them in 264. I do have a 280 Rem in the Classic that shoots excetionally well since I floated the barrel. Seems all those 7s are good with the right bullet.

You do have a very nice colllection.

I see you are testing some of that LeveRevolution.