33 Winchester.

[tj3006]

In a position to buy another old levergun. Have a few opertunities that are prety apealing.
One of the rifle is a Model 1886 33 winchester.
I looked a Midway and they have brass a 2 bucks a piece, but no bullets at all.
Hornady used to make one but no longer does.
There has to a commercial casting company out there who make somthing ?
I have other rifles available I would like so its not that criticle, I don't mind spending a few bucks on the brass, as its reusable,
Any body got a clue ?
...tj3006

[tdoor]

I too have a 33 Win 1886.

I form brass from 45-70 cases. I first run them through a 40-65 sizer, then run them through a 33 Win sizer (RCBS), cases well lubed, of course. You can skip the 40-65 sizer if one is not available, but you may lose a few more cases, and sizing effort is increased.

I annealed the 45-70 cases near the mouth, although this may not be necessary.

I've used Remington 45-70 cases, both new and once fired. One has to trim the formed 33 Win
cases to proper length (the same length as 45-70, 2.105" if my memory is correct). Since it is usually just a few thousanths, I have done it with a chamfer and deburring tool.


For bullets, I use exclusively the RCBS 33-200 FN, cast of wheel weights and a little tin. I got 33 caliber Hornady gas checks from Buffalo Arms. I seat them in a Lyman lubrisizer with a .338 H&I die, lube is the classic 50/50 bees wax/Alox formula (my bore slugged .338- I often size maybe .001 larger than groove diameter, but it hasn't been necessary in my case, saving me the effort of reaming out an H&I die).

When seating the bullet in the case, I gently bell the mouth with the Lee Universal case expanding die the minimum needed. The load I have been using is WLR primers and 39.0 grains of Varget. I have never encountered any leading, and the load is certainly enough to tip over a white tail.

At least for the first few firings, I check the case mouths for incipient splits (maybe 1 in 20 cases in my experience develop small crack on the mouth in the first couple of firings, which I believe is an artifact of the case forming operation). These incipient slits have never been anything serious, but I discard the cases anyway. After this infant mortality, case life has not been an issue for me.


Your gun, should you get it, may of course differ and proper load development practices should be followed. I found loading and dimensional data in a Hornady loading manual from the early 1980's (not the Varget load, of course). Good luck
tdoor

[Gun Smith]

tdoor is right. It's easy to make 33 W.C.F. from 45/70. LOTS cheaper! You may lose a couple of cases doing so, but still less costly. I do the resizing in two stages with the 33 die, lubricating between each stage. I haven't needed to use a second die. Annealing the neck will help to save a few cases too. And as he said watch your overall length as some chambers may be a tad short and you need a bit of clearance to avoid hard chambering and/ or pressure problems. I like to shooting my 33 as the recoil is modest compared to other '86 calibers.

[M71]

I just recently purchased some 38-56 brass which has the same basic case size as the 33 winchester. The benifit of using it over the 45-70 is you can bring it to the 33 winchester size with one pass throught the size die. The only option that I see for jacketed bullets is the cut the .338 225 grain spitzer bullets off from Hornaday achieve the flat nose; it worked well for me when cutting them in a lathe. Hope this helps. M71

[Leverluver]

I think Hawk makes a 338 flat point if you need to go that way. I'm not a terribly big fan of Hawk but it would be hard to tear up a bullet at the velocities you are working with.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I'm not a terribly big fan of Hawk but ...

I was considering some of the Hawk 348 bullets ... I'd be interested in your opinion and if you've had some specific issues with Hawk. As I understand, their main difference is that their jackets are pure copper instead of a guilding alloy.

[jnyork]

In my experience, .33 WCF brass can easily be made from 45-70 without any forming dies. I just lube 'em up good and run them up in the SEATING die first, then the full length resize die. Works as good as any except dont try it with Starline brass, that stuff is TOUGH!!

For jacketed bullets I just use the Hornady 200 grain spire points and single load the gun. I have been using some 200 grain gas checks I get from a commercial caster, they work just fine. You can make your own flat point jacketed bullets, using the 225 grain Hornadys. Just run them up in a .30-30 trim die and nick off the ends with a file. Takes a little while, but you are retired, arent you?

[Leverluver]

R Mc NJ

I think they are more than fine for the velocities that most of us are concerned with, i.e., traditional lever velocities. My reservations come with higher velocity cartridges. I have used the Hawk 348-250 and 270 in the 348 and was satisfied. I preferred the 250. I got it to 2190fps from my Browning (24") and I was happy with that. Long since I developed those loads, I did a lot of pressure studies on many brands of bullets and found that rarely can you achieve the expected velocities with a pure copper jacket compared to other brands. At least not if you are using pressure as the "apples to apples" comparison point. BTW, Swifts do the same exact thing. It's nothing dangerous or intrinsically bad; just something to be aware of. For instance, in the Hodgdon manual they take a 348-250 past 2300fps. For the sake of you and your rifle, I wouldn't attempt that with the Hawk and truthfully, it really isn't necessary to do so.

[6pt-sika]

There are quite a few avenues you can go with a 33 WCF !

With the brass you can use 45-70 and run it thru 40-65 , then 38-56 and finally 33 WCF sizing dies to get it to size !

You can also do what I did and get 40 pieces of the correctly headstamped Quality Cartridge brass ! Cost me about $60 two years ago ! Also I believe Jamison is making brass for the 33 WCF as well , although I cannot say anything good or bad about Jamison brass as I have never tried any . I can say that all of the Quality Cartridge brass I've used has been first rate .

For bullets you can keep your eyes peeled for some of the no longer made Hornady 200 grain 33 cal flat points . I was fortunate to get 4 boxes from soemone here ! I think Buffalo Arms may still have some though .

You can also purchase a present manufacture RCBS 33-200 mould . They are about $100 and no longer of GC design . If you're lucky and find a used RCBS 33-200GC mould by all means get it as they have become hard to find !

And then there's the other option . Find a no longer made Lyman #338320 200 grain GC mould . I picked one of these up from a mould dealer in california two years ago . I would have known nothing of this mould , but a gentleman here told me about it and I called the guy and we made the deal . This mould cost me $100 if memory serves and I was glad to get it !

For gas checks for the 33 caliber bullets unless you run across old Lyman or Hornday checks at gunshows you'll have to order some checks from "Gator Checks" in Louisianna .

My old 33 WCF is a original Marlin 1895 of about 1912 vintage . I have yet to shoot any jacketed bullets in the rifle , but it does seem to like the Lyman 338320 bullets just fine

[Last Spike]

I took the option of making 33 WCF brass out of 45-70 using RCBS' case forming die set - lightly lubed some Remington cases (did not anneal them) and ran them through the form and trim dies in one pass on the Rockcrusher, then full length sized and trimmed them again.

Buffalo Arms is supposed to have some discontinued Hornady #3315 .338 200 grain flat nosed bullets left. Here in Canada, I located a retailer that had plenty and am set for life. Also got plenty of .338 gas checks when I get around to using cast boolits in my 33. Have the plain base RCBS cast boolit mold, but looking for a Lyman or RCBS GC design. If I don't find one, I'll have Mountain Molds do up a double cavity mold for me.

[Mike D.]

Although I have never shot cast through any of my .33 Winchesters, I have used plenty of Hornady 200 grain FPs, and still have around 1200 of them on the bench. When sizing .45-70 brass using the .38-56 die as the first step is the way to go, followed by the .33 sizing die. If you are not loading the .38-56, a .33 WCF case forming die will be your best choice. Remington brass seem to work the easiest, but the excellent Starline product will make cases that last through many reloadings.

[Gun Smith]

Hey rimfire, did you mean Hawk 338 bullets?

[BigSky56]

Alaska Bullet Works makes a 33 cal FN bullet. danny
http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/albuwo.html

[tj3006]

Thank you guys,
Didn,t realize the .33 was a .338. Makes bullets much easier. If I buy the 33 I might use some 45/70 or similer brass.
But I would probably just bite the bullet (pun intended ) and buy Quality cartridge ,or jamison brass with the proper head stamp.
I found an 1899 manufactured model 92 octagon barrel buttun mag 44/40 I can get into prety cheap, and a very good deal on a 38/40 mdl73.
So, the 86 might have to wait anyway.
Might wait till I can afford to buy one in a easier to load for round like 40/65 40/82
or mabye even 45/70...tj3006