OT: .45 Colt Loads

[jd45]

Joe, If ONLY we could rely on the factory specs, I'd be on the bandwagon! But I 've heard & read that these carts have been "lawyer-proofed" in that their velocities have been reduced. On my list of things to do is clocking these factory standard .45 Colt loads, & if I get around to it, I'll be sure to post the data, bet on it. jd45

[jd45]

Here's the data on the Winchester Silvertip:
225@920 422 ft lbs ME

[J Miller]

Jd,

Lets skip the lawyer thing for right now. Recently I checked either the current Winchester ammo site or their latest printed catalog and their data now says 860 fps from a 5.5" Vented test barrel.
Before it was just a 5.5" barrel.
How this affects velocity I have no idea. I do know that I have fired more .45 Colt factory ammo than any other handgun caliber and from my experience, non of the Winchester or Remington standard loads has changed any at all.

Of course this is not from a chronograph, just the fact that I've been shooting the stuff for over 30 years. I've grown accustomed to the way it feels.

Joe

[Griff]

Yep, I neglected to list the Winchester 255gr standard load, I was just listing the difference between what they call their "cowboy" load and one that apparently is just in a regular box.

One of the great anomalies is the difference between the .38 Special standard and .38 Special "Cowboy" loads. All manufacturers list the standard (not +P) loads as 158grains @ ~750fps, yet each of their "Cowboy" loads are near or over 800fps. The same is not true of .45 Colt "Cowboy" loads.

Now... none of which applies to the ammo that cowboy action shooters load on their own. But, apparently the ammo manufacturers deem "Cowboy" loads in .38 Special need to be stouter than standard and in .45 Colt they should be downloaded.

[Andrew]

Front Sight says "Any gun will do, if you will." I think there is a lot of truth to that, from what I have seen, and that the most important piece of equipment is between your ears. I can't say wether or not the cowboy loads will "work", but I do beleive a hispanic man proved awhile back(with a sinker) that lead hitting you between the mustach and eyebrows will ruin you day.

I think I'm gonna vote "use what fits you best". What ever gets you pointing and clicking on target the best should be the one you use in your gun.

[JohndeFresno]

[bj94]

I thought today's .45Colt "cowboy" load was a bullet of about 165 grains at about 500-600 fps. A good heavy wool coat might stop that one.

Now a REAL .45 Colt load would be perfectly acceptable, but overpenetration could be a serious issue and I thought most people advised not to use reloads for defense. (Of course there are factory loads in the real cowboy class.)

[jd45]

Hi Joe, I think the "vented test barrel" Winchester now uses would have the effect of lowering the velocity. The vent bleeds off pressure to the bullet base, like the gap between the cylinder & barrel, giving closer to "real-world" results. That's my guess anyway. jd45

[SPROCKET]

Not that I have any practical experience; but my choice for an "off the shelf" defense round is the CCI Blazer. They use the 200gr Gold Dot.

Per CCI's web site

Bullet Test Barrel Velocity, ft/sec Energy, ft-lbs Trajectory (25 yd sight-in), inches*
Caliber Part # Wt, (grs) Type Length (inches) Muzzle 50 yds 100 yds Muzzle 50 yds 100 yds 25 yds 50 yds 75 yds 100 yds
45 Colt 3584 200 JHP 7.26 1000 935 882 444 388 345 0 -1.4 -5.3 -11.8

It should be a bit snappier out of a rifle or carbine

For handloads I use the 250 grain Gold Dot over a warm load of 296.

Either should make any critter sit down and rethink their current course of action.

[Paladin]

The Silver Tips in 45LC should work fine (bigger bullet). The Silver Tips is a couple of shootings here did not penetrate enough to do the job (One in .357 center chest, caused a large surface wound after going through a down vest and did not kill the guy and the other in 10 mm did the same on two different bad guys shot by LEOs) We switched to Gold Dot HPs and they have worked well for the department. Federal hydra shocks and Win Ranger worked well and held together also, used by different departments. I have been carrying 250 grain Gold Dots in my 45 Ruger.

[Old Savage]

Joe, do you have any pics of what these will do? 775fps

[Old Savage]

Actually it is these.

[Lefty Dude]

Y'all might wanna check out the new Hornandy "Critical Defense" loads. They have added the 45Colt and 45 ACP to the line up. Also just announced a 22 Mag version.

I was at the local Toy Store Yesterday and picked-up some 44 Special "Critical Defense" loads. They use the new 165gr FTX patented bullet. Muzzle- 1150 fps, 50 yds- 1020 fps & 100yds- 935fps.

I had been carrying Winchester Silver Tips in the piece, I just found the replacement.

On Hornandy's site you can read the review Dick Metcalf did for a Gun Rug. Also check out the jell test they did with the various configurations.

I want to get some of those 45 Colts when they are available.

BTW; price is in the same era as Winchester Silver Tips.

[J Miller]

OS,

The only pics I have for the Keith type SWCs are target pics. But a friend and I were rabbit hunting in AZ once with Keith .357s. Using Keith's load of 14.5grs of 2400 (I think that's what it was) they would flat explode the bunnies. Didn't leave much to do anything with.

Lefty Dude,
I'll have to check out the new Hornady stuff. I've been carrying Win Silver Tips but I've heard to many reports like the one Paladin posted above.

Joe

[SJPrice]

Joe,

While you are at it check out the Cor-Bon DPX 45 Colt loads.
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Self-Defense- ... 00/Product
Now those are defensive loads. The recoil is a little stout and takes some practice to get where you can perform quick accurate follow up shots.

Steve

[J Miller]

Joe,

While you are at it check out the Cor-Bon DPX 45 Colt loads.
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Self-Defense- ... 00/Product
Now those are defensive loads. The recoil is a little stout and takes some practice to get where you can perform quick accurate follow up shots.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the link. 225gr bullet @ 1200fps from a 7.5" test barrel. Pretty stout as you said. I don't think I'd use those from a hand gun, but from a Trapper or a Carbine those would be some decent deer and hog loads.
The price is what kills the deal though. $53.75 or there abouts for 20 rounds is more than I can afford.

[Hobie]

If I may interject.

- One doesn't gain much in velocity with most .45 Colt factory ammo when one shoots it in the carbines.
- The Gold Dot is an excellent bullet with an excellent reputation. So is the Silver Tip.
- As David proved on Goliath, placement is everything.
- If you can't get it "it" isn't worth anything. Applies to just about everything in life.

[Old Savage]

Hobie - thanks for that interesting information. The handloads I have were made by CowboyTutt and are comprised of 18.5 gr of H110, a 360 gr custom Keith bullet, Federal cases, a CCI 350 primer. They Chronograph 1350 from a Rossi Hartford 20".



As you found:

"Through it all, the rifle performed as expected. SLICK! All ammo fed without problems except that I short stroked it twice for some unknown reason. The bore must be slick as well, clean up was a breeze. Brass came out with little deformation indicating a seemingly well cut chamber. Recoil should have been stout with my handloads but it wasn't at all punishing. It seemed less so than my old Winchester and Marlin 1894s in .44 Magnum. Both guns weighed more so it must be a happy coincidence of the rifle's geometry and my body shape!"

So did I. One thing with bullet impact, this rifle is more dependent on how and how tightly I hold it with these loads than anything I have fired. It wants to go up and to the right but can be held on by wrapping my fingers up over the right side of the forearm and holding on.

[jd45]

I really wish Winchester would offer those Silvertips as a component for reloading, like they do in the other pistol calibers. I just don't understand why they don't. jd45
OS, I'll bet your custom handloads will beat hands down anything a .44MAG reloader could dream
up! jd45

[Ray Newman]

Interesting thread. I always thought that defensive shooting with a handgun required solid "placement, expansion, and penetration."

Or, am I thinking of something else??….

[getitdone1]

Winchester Silver Tips are my first choice for a 45 Colt load for self-defense against humans. For large, perhaps dangerous game, I'd definitely want more penetration than this bullet will produce. I've tested the Silver Tips, amongst other bullets, and find they expand the best. (The best in relation with the others I had to compare to.)

Don McCullough