Hunkering down and preparing for Obamas first 100 days.

[DavidF]

My wife has a tendency to sometimes question my rantings on the 2nd amendment and the erosion of our rights as political paranoia. I don't hold it against her though, as I sometimes question it myself. However, thanks to the vigilance of many members like Old Ironsights and the Ysabel Kid, who diligently scour the net for the truth behind the issues, and post countless Political threads in the face of strong member opposition against the lack of levergun topics. She is finely beginning to see the writing on the wall. Last night I read out loud crs's post on Pat Buchanan's prediction for the first 100 days, and today she called me suggesting that it might be a good time to purchase that black rifle she usually thinks is so evil.
My sincerest thanks

On that note, I am now shopping for an AK as I don't have the funds for an AR, spouse approval or not. I have been looking for a forum classified section so I could arrange a face to face purchase in the Dallas Ft Worth area as I won't buy another firearm through an FFL. I found AK.net and there are a few possibilities there, but I thought you guys might have some other ideas. I will be at the Ft Worth gun show this weekend cash in hand in case a deal walks by.

[mescalero1]

I don't know as I have no interst in the AK line, but could you not do a kit type thing?

[alnitak]

Here are some other classified sites to check out:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/for ... y.php?f=14
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=38
http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=7
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewfor ... cac5386a85
http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdispla ... 5f7e8&f=39
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.p ... 0c350&f=21
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... t/Board/14
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/350601935
http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/forum ... 92da4&f=10
http://www.gunshowonthenet.com/page14.html

Also, try Gunbroker and AuctionArms.

[alnitak]

How about a Mini-14? It fires both .223 and 5.56, and is about half the price of an AR. I have one, like new with several mags, for sale.

[DavidF]

I am looking into that, but to complete a kit you have to purchase a receiver which requires an FFL, or purchase an unfinished receiver which has to be bent and than heat treated at 1600 degrees which might be a problem.

[mescalero1]

Like I said, I did not know about them; just a suggestion.

[Idahoser]

I too like the idea of asking the opinion of this crowd on unrelated things. I recently decided after quitting cigarettes that I didn't want to be a 'anti-smoker' and the idea of smoking a cigar occasionally would help me feel connected.

Well as you can imagine there are sites for that, but the problem is, you get flooded with help. Everything there is, is recommended to you. You don't know enough yet to weed through the info to find what applies best to you. So in other words, you haven't really learned anything.

Here, on the other hand, there will be a few folks who have developed a sense of what a new cigar smoker might enjoy, and some reasonable recommendations were made to get me started. MUCH more useful info than I got over at the other site dedicated to the subject.

And it's because I trust these guys that this is where I came. I've learned that trust from the many conversations I've read and unfortunately the many I've participated in (I'm realizing slowly that I don't know everything).

I also have little interest in an AK, anymore. I built an AR-15 from a parts kit and added a stripped lower reciever for a total cost of about $500. I recommend building your own anyway.

http://www.sarcoinc.com/m16.html
Little more than halfway down the page
AR209 AR15/M16 Parts Kit, minus lower receiver (Included are stocks, G.I. handguards, new A-1 barrel, A2 type upper receivers, and all internal parts) $434.50

Price went up about $35 since I got mine. I got a Stag stripped lower for $100 at a gun show. You need some basic hand tools and a couple of specific ones that I didn't include in the price, maybe $50 if you go minimal. Or a friend may have them to loan you, or surely somebody on here would send you the tools either for shipping cost or in exchange for something.

I'd do it again. In fact I did, though the second one was more in line with a compact truck gun with telescoping stock and light, 16", mid-length gas system barrel. I paid more for that. I got exactly what I wanted though, and the confidence I could build it from the first one. And tools left.

[Coldfingers]

Good Luck on your search and I hope you find a good one.

I have been pretty content with my old "liberty" barreled Mini. It has been very functional, reasonably accurate for what it is, and easy to feed. For me, the money I would spend to upgrade is better spent on feed for the ol girl.

I have done some minor customizing to mine that makes it a little better accuracy wise. It was sure death on running wolves back when we could shoot from the SuperCub

[Lastmohecken]

OK, I am going to lend some advice. And you know what other people's advice is often worth. However, I was in your siduation not that long ago. I had not owned an AR-15 in quite a few years and had also previously sold my SKS's, and an AK 47 that I had, being mostly interested in blued steel and walnut leveractions and nice shotguns for a long time.

However, this year, I began to see more writing on the wall, and figured that If I thought I would ever want a so called semi-auto military type rifle, with some good magazines, again, then it was time to get off of the pot, and do something.

After a lot of asking around, on the net, and with my shooting buddies who were already into AR's, I decided to get a Bushmaster M4 style, AR-15. This is a pretty good gun for the money, however I didn't stop there and I also ended up with another Bushmaster, and I also have built a complete Lower using a DPMS receiver, and a Rock River parts kit with a Rock River 2 stage national match trigger. I have not purchased an upper for this gun yet, but I have test run it on my other guns and it works great.

Anyway, you can read everything on the net, and end up not knowing what to do, as everyone has an opinion. Here's my suggestion, Forget the AK-47 for now, as there are plenty of pit falls there, also, and you will spend nearly as much. Drag out the plastic if you have to, or put one layaway, but just go ahead and get a Bushmaster AR and get one with the removable carry handle, so you can add a scope more eaisly, later if you want to. You don't have to get an M4, actually one with a light 16 inch barrel and medium length handguards would probably make a fine first AR.

Buy some MagPul 30 round magazines, they are plastic, but very tough, and reliable. You can add other magazines later, but get a few of these first, they probably won't let you down. You can get 5 for around a hundred dollars.

Then you need some ammo. Once again everyone has their opinions here. I would say buy a couple of cases of Russian Brown Bear steel cased ammo, and then you can consider getting some better quality brass cased ammo, or try loading you own, if you really want some good hunting loads.

Don't get all caught up in all of the AR-15 Brands Arguments. And people will argue over everything I have said here. But the bottom line is there are several brands that work pretty good, and some still think the real deal Colt is still the best, but that can be agrued also.

The reason I said don't get an AK-47 is because there is a lot of AK junk out there right now, the old ones we used to get had chromed chambers and bores, I don't see that now, same with the SKS's. However, I am not saying that the AK-47 is not a reliable arm, but I do question the quality of quite a few I see now days.

Also, be sure your AR-15 says 5.56MM on the barrel, somewhere. There is a difference in chambers, and lots of people will say different, but just to play it safe, get a gun that has a 5.56 chamber instead of a .223 chamber, and it will still shoot .223 ammo, but will also shoot the 5.56 military ammo. A whole chapter can be written on this subject alone, just do it, for you first one.

[Lastmohecken]

Also, IMHO, you should have already purchased at least one AR and some ammo. If I didn't already have one, I would at least get one on layaway somewhere before the weekend, because Heaven forbid if the worst one gets elected, you might see a real run on some guns, and a quick spike in prices, the next day.

Good Luck

[Idahoser]

Ammo: AR's don't like steel cases, from what I understand. I bought a case and then sold it, unopened, and got good Winchester and Federal. Would have bought a crate of milsurp our local store had stacked all over the store, but when I went back to get one they were all gone.

Otherwise- I don't have a problem with Bushmaster. I'm just glad I built my own, now I understand how easy it is. They're all modular, this part works with that part and you can change your mind later and do something else.

It's beginning to be a bad time to buy, though... if everybody thinks like you the price could be artificially inflated for this next week. Although if it goes the way we're told it will, I guess that'll seem cheap.

[O.S.O.K.]

You want a good rapid fire rifle? SKS. That'll leave more money for ammo and using 10 round stripper clips they are very rapid to reload - and more accurate than an AK.

For an AK - the best deal for the money is a Saiga - you then convert to pistol grip configuration - check this:
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

Its not hard and you don't need any special tools.

You may want to consider getting an AK-74 though - for the ammo cost. Bulgarian ammo can be had for $120/1080 count sealed can. Good ammo but its corrosively primed - but no problem just flush the rifle with water, dry and clean as normal.

[Lastmohecken]

Ammo: AR's don't like steel cases, from what I understand. I bought a case and then sold it, unopened, and got good Winchester and Federal. Would have bought a crate of milsurp our local store had stacked all over the store, but when I went back to get one they were all gone.

Otherwise- I don't have a problem with Bushmaster. I'm just glad I built my own, now I understand how easy it is. They're all modular, this part works with that part and you can change your mind later and do something else.

It's beginning to be a bad time to buy, though... if everybody thinks like you the price could be artificially inflated for this next week. Although if it goes the way we're told it will, I guess that'll seem cheap.

The main reason I suggested getting some steel cased ammo, is price and availability, plus the Bushys shoot it pretty good, I have had no problems with mine, using the Brown Bear stuff. Like you I would rather have brass cases but I also don't want to end up without enough ammo put back. Plus I felt better about the steel cased stuff after knowing several people who have shot a lot of rounds through their rifles between cleanings, without issues. I this regard, I believe that the Bushmasters with chrome chambers, seem to tolerate it better then the DPMS chambers but others may say different. Now if we are talking about shooting a .308 Chambered AR or an FAL then I would not chance steel cases.

But I will say that of course my first choice is brass in anything.

[AJMD429]

Remember, the frame ('lower') is the "firearm" - I see DPMS AR-15 lowers for around $120-$140 for sale. Get one NOW.

You can add the stock, innards, and 'upper' (barrel) later, assuming the firearm will be 'grandfathered' - and the loser-anti-gun-fanatics don't usually have the guts NOT to 'grandfather' stuff; they know it would incite serious political drama. (Unfortunately, 79 million of the 80 million gun owners in our nation are too apathetic to get out and VOTE against the anti-gun politicians, as long as they already have THEIR gun purchased. )

At least if you have $130 now you can get your foot in the door EBR-wise. AK stuff and even SKS stuff is good, but AR stuff seems more flexible and plentiful. Aesthetically, the Mini-14 and M1-A are worlds better, but sometimes, 'junk works' - and just like I have to admit the Glock is a durable and useful gun (I sold the only one I had a week after I got it because I didn't LIKE it), those ugly beasts are durable and practical. If you win the lottery, get a match-grade Garand ($1,700) or M1A, but until then, consider getting an AR "lower" - DPMS, Bushmaster, or whatever. Have a dealer you like just order you one (or two); remember your kids may someday appreciate the ability to have one.

[Idahoser]

Remember, the frame ('lower') is the "firearm" - I see DPMS AR-15 lowers for around $120-$140 for sale. Get one NOW.

What he said.

[kirkwood]

My wife has a tendency to sometimes question my rantings on the 2nd amendment....

Remind her that the founding fathers put the second amendment in there to enable all of our other rights to be protected from a tyrannical government. Our Constitution lists the rights of citizens to be free from tyranny. It was never intended to list the rights of a government to turn us into subjects.

She is finely beginning to see the writing on the wall.

There have been many countries throughout history where the people did not see the writing on the wall until it was too late to do anything about it. We're lucky in that a lot of us can see what is happening and can prepare. I have no doubt that if the founding fathers came back to life, they would all be armed and telling all of us to do likewise. We arm ourselves to protect our freedom. If we never use those weapons and yet remain free, they will still have served their purpose.

I hope you find what you need this weekend.

[bobbyjack]

No since to panic(and any AR/15 even an Oly)will gobble steel case wolf like nobodys business,I had a Bushy 16 that didn't like silver bear.

If you have a lever gun(the west was won with them and a shotgun)or a good bolt action(several wars were won with them)and you can hit what you shoot at(remember snipers) if you live through the first skirmish then you will have another gun of your choice!

Just use your good judgment and know when to fight(the fight on the ground is tanks,and the real war will come from the air)never call in the wrath from above! Use what you have.

Bob

[TedH]

I've been pondering the same thing and have come to the conclusion that I will pull out the plastic and buy a Bushmaster now, probably tonight. I think next Wednesday there will be a big jump in demand and price. Then in another few months you won't be able to buy one at all.

[AJMD429]

Given that Ayres and his ilk wanted to round up 'conservatives and capitalists' into camps and even spoke of mass executions, this may give an idea what their vision of a rosy future is.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,444672,00.html

But of course, we're the doom-and-gloomers and bad guys. Not them. They are visionaries and future leaders. Puke....

[O.S.O.K.]

OK, seems like the AR is the favored? I was trying to provide some more economical altrenatives that are just as effective and utilize the 7.62x39 cartridge.

I would recommend assembling your own AR if you want to go that route - rather than buying a complete rifle. .223 ammo is expensive - even to handload...

By doing this, you avoid the excise tax on most of the purchase price. No special tools are required and it takes at most an hour to assemble the rifle.

I have one that I did like that - used http://www.del-ton.com 's rifle kit (which is complete save for a stripped lower receiver) - and bought a Stag lower receiver from http://www.aimsurplus.com

Here's my rifle:



Here's a target that I shot while testing handloads - was shooting for groups - not placement on target - that's been adjusted!



I chose a carbine - chromed barrel, ergo pistol grip, flat top receiver - and as you can see, its got backup folding irons and an eotech scope.

Another place to shop for the kits is http://www.bravocompanyusa.com

Seriously - you will save $200 or more.

[Idahoser]

Go to 44mag.com and buy some combination of mags from Cproducts to make your order ship free, something like $100 is all it takes. 8 or 10 mags will accomplish that.

[O.S.O.K.]

$11 for a quality mag - good find! If I didn't already have all that I need, I'd be all over that. Adding 44mag.com to my favorites - thanks!

[RSY]

Good Luck on your search and I hope you find a good one.

I have been pretty content with my old "liberty" barreled Mini. It has been very functional, reasonably accurate for what it is, and easy to feed. For me, the money I would spend to upgrade is better spent on feed for the ol girl.

I have done some minor customizing to mine that makes it a little better accuracy wise. It was sure death on running wolves back when we could shoot from the SuperCub

I have one of these "Liberty" Mini's, as well (180-series, first civilian year available, 1976). A couple of issues with it are that it's chambered for .223, not 5.56mm; and there are basically no accessories available for the old-style receiver. Aside from that, it's a great rifle.

Scott

[alnitak]

I have one of these "Liberty" Mini's, as well (180-series, first civilian year available, 1976). A couple of issues with it are that it's chambered for .223, not 5.56mm; and there are basically no accessories available for the old-style receiver. Aside from that, it's a great rifle.
Scott

My understanding is that the Mini-14's all have shot both .223 and 5.56 (per Ruger, as I read somewhere in the manual). I know my Mini-14 (serial 183-xxxxx) shoots both and it is specified in the manual. Check out this:
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/ ... als/43.pdf
...it says both .223 and 5.56, civilian and NATO military ammo.

[RSY]

I have one of these "Liberty" Mini's, as well (180-series, first civilian year available, 1976). A couple of issues with it are that it's chambered for .223, not 5.56mm; and there are basically no accessories available for the old-style receiver. Aside from that, it's a great rifle.
Scott

My understanding is that the Mini-14's all have shot both .223 and 5.56 (per Ruger, as I read somewhere in the manual). I know my Mini-14 (serial 183-xxxxx) shoots both and it is specified in the manual. Check out this:
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/ ... als/43.pdf
...it says both .223 and 5.56, civilian and NATO military ammo.

You may be right, but I think the 180-series Mini-14s pre-date the 5.56mm NATO SS109 load, which requires a longer leade. Pressure problems are possible when shooting SS109s out of rifles chambered in plain ol' .223 Rem.

Anyone know for sure about these early Mini-14s??? To further confuse things, my 180-series Mini-14 is marked ".223 Cal." not ".223 Rem."

Scott

[DavidF]

Well, I am going to be looking for an AR lower, but I am also planning to pick up an SKS with a tactical composite stock. At less than $300 its hard to ignore the value there. I want to be operational for the least amount of money possible as I still don't have a good bolt action, and little to no ammunition set aside.

[Idahoser]

Okay, I actually looked, and there are good new mags for 9.99 but the free shipping threshold is actually $200, not $100. Full cases ship UPS ground only but they have a choice for other quantities. I found out about this place from a 'group buy' special they did (CProducts I mean) and they used several vendors to sell them, this was the one that had free shipping. I got enough that I'm not worried about a future supply of high cap mags. Case quantity looks like 100 mags, for one brand anyway that I looked at. Maybe a Levergunners group buy of a case... ten people, ten mags each, $100 each, add the actual shipping from the honcho. Or say, 9 people, ten mags, honcho pays shipping to the others and gets his free.

Whatever... just thoughts.

[Idahoser]

You need a Garand, too you know.

[O.S.O.K.]

bam, bam bam bam, bam bam bam bam... ping!

[RSY]

bam, bam bam bam, bam bam bam bam... ping!

My thoughts, exactly.

Scott

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I am going to be looking for an AR lower, but I am also planning to pick up an SKS with a tactical composite stock. At less than $300 its hard to ignore the value there. I want to be operational for the least amount of money possible as I still don't have a good bolt action, and little to no ammunition set aside.

Well, you know, a good man with a good bolt action sporter with a low powered variable scope and back up iron sights in a major caliber, such as .308Win or 30-06 is a force to be reckoned with, and superior to about all of the so called assaultrifles, at any real distance or if you need to turn cover into concealment. Add a good handgun to the mix, and a good Shotgun and you have a pretty effective weapons system. The rest is a matter of tatics and not getting caught with your pants down.

[El Chivo]

it's not the first 100 days, it's the next ten years that'll be the problem.

[Grizz]

I want to suggest another piece of equipment we should be armed with: video cameras. A digital still camera takes great video, they're cheap, and YouTube is our friend and may be our last free-speech opportunity once the unfairness doctrine gets reinstated.

When potential perps approach my door I flank them with my hand on the grip and a running camera in the left hand. Video is great because it's got the sound recording too. Everyone will clearly hear me give instructions, and no one will be able to gainsay my after-action report. There is NOTHING like having an unimpeachable corroborating witness.

Remember to have a spare memory card to swap out so you can keep and MAKE COPIES of whatever your camera captures.

I use mine daily while driving to document agressive and incompetent drivers. If one of them involves me in an accident I'll have a witness. You would be surprised how fast a tailgater will back off when she discovers you're taping them.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, I am going to be looking for an AR lower, but I am also planning to pick up an SKS with a tactical composite stock. At less than $300 its hard to ignore the value there. I want to be operational for the least amount of money possible as I still don't have a good bolt action, and little to no ammunition set aside.

Well, you know, a good man with a good bolt action sporter with a low powered variable scope and back up iron sights in a major caliber, such as .308Win or 30-06 is a force to be reckoned with, and superior to about all of the so called assaultrifles, at any real distance or if you need to turn cover into concealment. Add a good handgun to the mix, and a good Shotgun and you have a pretty effective weapons system. The rest is a matter of tatics and not getting caught with your pants down.

Yes, but a good man with a bolt gun AND an EBR are even more of a force to be reckoned with.