Finally got my 1876 Win back, but not happy at all
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- Levergunner 3.0
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Finally got my 1876 Win back, but not happy at all
Well, its been about 19 months that my 76 was gone for. Just a little back ground. I received this rifle for free from a friend of the family. He got it from his grandfather who passed down along with hundreds of others. Before leaving for a hunt in Canada together, I spotted it on his wall. I asked about it the whole trip to see what he was going to do with it. He told me it was missing parts and that his sister wanted to make it into a lamp of all things.
Well after the hunt was over, I got a box from the UPS. Sure enough, there was the 76. Well, it had a 28 in round barrel and was in pretty good shape. It looked like someone already tried to restore it at one time with cold blue, but didn't look good. The bore was a sewer and their was some wood shrinkage. So I decided to get her restored.
Now, I looked at Turnbull, but didn't want ( or couldn't afford)to put that much money into it. So I shopped around and found Wind River Rifle. The same company that makes rifle barrels for Brownell's and others. I checked them out and really liked their work. What can I say, I took it at face value. I talked to the owner on the phone and email to let him know what I wanted. I was clear. I wanted just the metal done with new barrel, hammer, lever, internals and receiver Color Cased.
Well, I was reading on the forum one day about JDad and his problems with Wind River Rifle. Over a 10 month period, I was told it just need to be assembled and it would be ready. I got the same asnwer over and over everytime I asked. I decided enough was enough and contacted them. My only concern at this point was getting my rifle back at all cost. I repeatedly emailed stating that I want my rifle back and a 19 month was enough time. Never heard a word. I called and finally got someone to answer. I stated I wanted the darn rifle back by 24 Dec, or we are going to have problems.
Well, today the UPS man arrived and there was a box . I was happy asa a little boy on X-mas until I got all of the bubble wrap off. I ordered a new round barrel just like the original. It now has a octagon that has an unfinshed muzzle. There is no blueing on the muzzle end and it looks like a couple small specks of surface rust is starting.
I ordered a color case receiver (really upset about this) and got a blued receiver. Everything else including the butt plate is CCH.
I wanted the original ladder site and got a full buck horn.
Lets just say I have smoke coming out of my ears. 19 month wait and $1200 dollars and all I get is disappointment.
I will give them credit. The edges are all still sharp and so is the lettering. Thats about it. Needless to say, they will be getting a phone call on 26 Dec stating that they will refund my $$$. I will have to wait and see how far I get. I sure as hell will never do business with them again and they will never touch that 76 ever again. Some may say I brought it upon myself for not doing more reasearch. But it still makes me mad.
So if you ever get the desire to have something like this done, I would stay clear . Here are some pic's. There is still alot of oil on it, its not rust. The wood is also the original and has shrunk. It to is getting replaced.
Well after the hunt was over, I got a box from the UPS. Sure enough, there was the 76. Well, it had a 28 in round barrel and was in pretty good shape. It looked like someone already tried to restore it at one time with cold blue, but didn't look good. The bore was a sewer and their was some wood shrinkage. So I decided to get her restored.
Now, I looked at Turnbull, but didn't want ( or couldn't afford)to put that much money into it. So I shopped around and found Wind River Rifle. The same company that makes rifle barrels for Brownell's and others. I checked them out and really liked their work. What can I say, I took it at face value. I talked to the owner on the phone and email to let him know what I wanted. I was clear. I wanted just the metal done with new barrel, hammer, lever, internals and receiver Color Cased.
Well, I was reading on the forum one day about JDad and his problems with Wind River Rifle. Over a 10 month period, I was told it just need to be assembled and it would be ready. I got the same asnwer over and over everytime I asked. I decided enough was enough and contacted them. My only concern at this point was getting my rifle back at all cost. I repeatedly emailed stating that I want my rifle back and a 19 month was enough time. Never heard a word. I called and finally got someone to answer. I stated I wanted the darn rifle back by 24 Dec, or we are going to have problems.
Well, today the UPS man arrived and there was a box . I was happy asa a little boy on X-mas until I got all of the bubble wrap off. I ordered a new round barrel just like the original. It now has a octagon that has an unfinshed muzzle. There is no blueing on the muzzle end and it looks like a couple small specks of surface rust is starting.
I ordered a color case receiver (really upset about this) and got a blued receiver. Everything else including the butt plate is CCH.
I wanted the original ladder site and got a full buck horn.
Lets just say I have smoke coming out of my ears. 19 month wait and $1200 dollars and all I get is disappointment.
I will give them credit. The edges are all still sharp and so is the lettering. Thats about it. Needless to say, they will be getting a phone call on 26 Dec stating that they will refund my $$$. I will have to wait and see how far I get. I sure as hell will never do business with them again and they will never touch that 76 ever again. Some may say I brought it upon myself for not doing more reasearch. But it still makes me mad.
So if you ever get the desire to have something like this done, I would stay clear . Here are some pic's. There is still alot of oil on it, its not rust. The wood is also the original and has shrunk. It to is getting replaced.
- Old Time Hunter
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- Old Ironsights
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I hope you have physical records of the Work requested.
Being able to show a Contract for X when you got Y will help tremendously.
It is pretty, though, even if the situation sucks.
Being able to show a Contract for X when you got Y will help tremendously.
It is pretty, though, even if the situation sucks.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
- marlinman93
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I sure am sorry for what happened Mich Hunter. But I do disagree with one thing. That muzzle is just as it should be. No finish, and definitely not crowned! It looks just like the way the old guns were done at the muzzle end of te barrel to me.
But aside from that, it sure seems that Wind River has got some real issues lately with charging big money, not completing on time, and not really doing the work to the satisfaction of the cutomer!
But aside from that, it sure seems that Wind River has got some real issues lately with charging big money, not completing on time, and not really doing the work to the satisfaction of the cutomer!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
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- Levergunner 3.0
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Standard coloring on the 76 was a blued receiver with case colored lever and hammer. So I think they did a proper "restoration" with that. You do have 2 gripes IMO, and that is that your original sight is missing, and the round barrel is now Octagon. As for the crown, you laid down an ultimatum, so don't expect a finished product. I agree that 19 Months is a very long time, but you would probably wait longer for a new Shiloh Sharps.
You managed to get a 1876 Winchester for just $1200 dollars. I would think of the bright side of that. Considering that you have a new barrel that will probably shoot quite well I think you ended up with a very nice rifle for that kind of money.
You can dwell on this forever, and forfeit any good relationship you will ever have with this rifle, or you can look overall at what you have and appreciate it.
Someone once told me that the best way to get over something bad is to find a way to turn it good, and that will make you feel good about it. If that means even giving it to someone who will appreciate it more than you do (and you would then feel good about it), or just going out and making meat with it and appreciating what it is, then you have succeeded.
Years ago, I had a possession which was linked to something that always angered me. It was a very costly item. After hearing the above statement, I gave it to someone who has and will cherish it the rest of their life. Funny thing...I am the better person for it, and can feel good about it again.
Ed
You managed to get a 1876 Winchester for just $1200 dollars. I would think of the bright side of that. Considering that you have a new barrel that will probably shoot quite well I think you ended up with a very nice rifle for that kind of money.
You can dwell on this forever, and forfeit any good relationship you will ever have with this rifle, or you can look overall at what you have and appreciate it.
Someone once told me that the best way to get over something bad is to find a way to turn it good, and that will make you feel good about it. If that means even giving it to someone who will appreciate it more than you do (and you would then feel good about it), or just going out and making meat with it and appreciating what it is, then you have succeeded.
Years ago, I had a possession which was linked to something that always angered me. It was a very costly item. After hearing the above statement, I gave it to someone who has and will cherish it the rest of their life. Funny thing...I am the better person for it, and can feel good about it again.
Ed
- Ysabel Kid
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- Advanced Levergunner
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I think it is very nice. I understand your dissapointment but go ahead and do the stock work. she will be wonderous!
I once had a top rated stock maker in Portland OR. stock an 1100 trap gun for me. It took him almost a year. I would drive over to his shop on Sat. and he would get it down and start on it, I came back the next week and it was in the same stage as last week. This went on for months. I started to do my own after that. The only one I can complain to is ME!
I once had a top rated stock maker in Portland OR. stock an 1100 trap gun for me. It took him almost a year. I would drive over to his shop on Sat. and he would get it down and start on it, I came back the next week and it was in the same stage as last week. This went on for months. I started to do my own after that. The only one I can complain to is ME!
- KirkD
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Marlinman is right about the muzzle. Winchester left the muzzles of their '76 barrels 'in the white' (i.e., not blued). Personally, I think you got very nice rifle there. I prefer octagon, you got nice color casing, and the receiver looks very nice. I'd take an octagon over a round '76 any day. You do have a legitimate issue with the wrong rear sight, and the wrong barrel and the amount of time it took. However, I think you got a very nice rifle out of it and $1,200 is not out of line for the work that was done. In fact, that seems to be on the low side of things (I talked to a few restorers this past summer about a '73).
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Mitch
You're disappointed because you didn't send it to me..... OK Kidding
First that restoration was dirt cheap; I would have charged at least $1000 more, and I’m pretty reasonable.
I charge $700 for my76 barrels, which means the restoration was $500, I don't know anyone who can do a proper restoration for that little. And just because Brownells carries their barrels doesn’t mean they are good at anything and everything.
As previously stated muzzles are in the white
Looks like they did a good job, edges seem sharp, so it wasn't a buff and blue job.
As to the CCH Frame, well they may have been uncomfortable with that, a 76 is a large frame, takes a very large crucible, and lots of chances to warp if not properly blocked.
Call them up tell them your concerns, hopefully they will fix it to your expectations. My warrantee is customer needs to be happy..period. If they won’t CCH your 76 frame have them pay to have another reputable firm to do it.
As to barrel, yup they screwed up…you decide if you can live with it.
And read previous posts about Wind River….Good reputations are earned, bad ones are gotten
Mike Hunter
www.Hunterrestorations .com
You're disappointed because you didn't send it to me..... OK Kidding
First that restoration was dirt cheap; I would have charged at least $1000 more, and I’m pretty reasonable.
I charge $700 for my76 barrels, which means the restoration was $500, I don't know anyone who can do a proper restoration for that little. And just because Brownells carries their barrels doesn’t mean they are good at anything and everything.
As previously stated muzzles are in the white
Looks like they did a good job, edges seem sharp, so it wasn't a buff and blue job.
As to the CCH Frame, well they may have been uncomfortable with that, a 76 is a large frame, takes a very large crucible, and lots of chances to warp if not properly blocked.
Call them up tell them your concerns, hopefully they will fix it to your expectations. My warrantee is customer needs to be happy..period. If they won’t CCH your 76 frame have them pay to have another reputable firm to do it.
As to barrel, yup they screwed up…you decide if you can live with it.
And read previous posts about Wind River….Good reputations are earned, bad ones are gotten
Mike Hunter
www.Hunterrestorations .com
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Mich Hunter, I understand completely, you ordered "A" but received "B". I do like the blue on the receiver tho. My only concern is who has the original sight now? They are expensive items on ebay. Also, did he keep the original round barrel? Those are expensive too, and for the BP cartridges they can be relined. The gun cannot be undone now without greater expense. I would devote the time on the phone to getting the original barrel back and the original sight back. Heck, selling those 2 at a gun show or online would probably generate 400 or 500 dollars towards your expenses, then you would only have 700 or 800 in the restoration. If you fight him for some money back it probably wont happen. And if somehow they DO agree to pay some back how much would they offer? A few hundred tops? The missing items are worth more than that, so I would concentrate on obtaining them. They mat be more willing to part with those than part with cash.
You may want to letter the gun, may find out it was blued originally.
Then i would use it, get my own "character marks" (as I call scrathes and wear) on them from many hunting trips and shooting sessions, where as the years go by they will become reminders of pleasant memories.
BTW, what caliber was it? What caliber is it now?
You may want to letter the gun, may find out it was blued originally.
Then i would use it, get my own "character marks" (as I call scrathes and wear) on them from many hunting trips and shooting sessions, where as the years go by they will become reminders of pleasant memories.
BTW, what caliber was it? What caliber is it now?
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
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I hope you paid with a credit card. My first call would be to the credit card company to dispute the charge. State your position and let them handle the refund.
A deal is a deal.
Anytime I spend a large sum I go plastic for just that reason. President Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."
Quinn
A deal is a deal.
Anytime I spend a large sum I go plastic for just that reason. President Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."
Quinn
We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other.
General George C. Marshall, 1942
General George C. Marshall, 1942
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- Levergunner 2.0
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If you go on and do the stock work, while you have the gun apart I would be glad to checker the hammer for you, as a personal favor.
let me know,
engravertom@frontiernet.net
Tom
let me know,
engravertom@frontiernet.net
Tom
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The gun was originally a round barrel in 45-60. The barrel was a sewer and had alot of pitting at the muzzle. The outside of the barrel was also pretty bad. I mean deep pitting. All in all, they did a hell of a job. All lettering is crisp and looks brand new. All edges are sharp and they is not one small pit at all. The gun looks just like it came from the factory.
What bugs the hell out of me is that I gave them every opportunity to get it done. I was told "just needs to be put back together" for 9 months straight. My only concern in life was getting it back. They seen very unorganized and nobody has a clue on whats going on. As far as getting the parts back, probably won't happen. The original ladder sight was probably not salvagable due to heavy pitting. But, it was supposed to be replaced with the same style ladder. This full buck horn is going to come off soon.
I was told about the problems with CCH large frames like this one, but I should have been told if he could not do it. Their communication skills are pee poor. I paid for CCH, not blueing even though it turned out really good.
I doubt that I get anything resolved with them. I know better now to find some one else next time(Mike Hunter). I'm sure I'll moan about it for awhile, but in the end it will be hunted with. I got a new 1876 win original for $1200. Like some other wise men said on this forum, I will just have to add a few of my own character marks
What bugs the hell out of me is that I gave them every opportunity to get it done. I was told "just needs to be put back together" for 9 months straight. My only concern in life was getting it back. They seen very unorganized and nobody has a clue on whats going on. As far as getting the parts back, probably won't happen. The original ladder sight was probably not salvagable due to heavy pitting. But, it was supposed to be replaced with the same style ladder. This full buck horn is going to come off soon.
I was told about the problems with CCH large frames like this one, but I should have been told if he could not do it. Their communication skills are pee poor. I paid for CCH, not blueing even though it turned out really good.
I doubt that I get anything resolved with them. I know better now to find some one else next time(Mike Hunter). I'm sure I'll moan about it for awhile, but in the end it will be hunted with. I got a new 1876 win original for $1200. Like some other wise men said on this forum, I will just have to add a few of my own character marks
Mich Hunter,
I do feel your pain. I paid 50% more for the work they did on my 1897, but they did have to case the receiver and replace the barrel.
They did do a pretty good job, but for what I paid the details matter. I sent a detailed letter, with the rifle, stating what work I wanted done, but.......
1. They put a later (incorrect for the DOM) rollstamp on the barrel. I specifically stated to match the rollstamp.
2. They left the inside of the bolt and receiver rusty, unpolished, and unfinished.
3. Front sight was not reblued or touched up.
4. They didn't polish off the machine marks, on the face of the takedown screw.
5. Several of the screws should have been replaced.
6. They re-assembled the two receiver halves cockeyed, so the takedown screw scratched the case coloring.
The rifle is extremely accurate, under 1" groups at 25yds using the iron sights, with the new barrel. I can live with the issues above.
I consider this to have been a learning experience. I'm over my anger and have let it be history. If your rifle shoots as well as mine, then hopefully you'll let it go too.....as tough as it may be.
I do feel your pain. I paid 50% more for the work they did on my 1897, but they did have to case the receiver and replace the barrel.
They did do a pretty good job, but for what I paid the details matter. I sent a detailed letter, with the rifle, stating what work I wanted done, but.......
1. They put a later (incorrect for the DOM) rollstamp on the barrel. I specifically stated to match the rollstamp.
2. They left the inside of the bolt and receiver rusty, unpolished, and unfinished.
3. Front sight was not reblued or touched up.
4. They didn't polish off the machine marks, on the face of the takedown screw.
5. Several of the screws should have been replaced.
6. They re-assembled the two receiver halves cockeyed, so the takedown screw scratched the case coloring.
The rifle is extremely accurate, under 1" groups at 25yds using the iron sights, with the new barrel. I can live with the issues above.
I consider this to have been a learning experience. I'm over my anger and have let it be history. If your rifle shoots as well as mine, then hopefully you'll let it go too.....as tough as it may be.
- Old Savage
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I understand what you are saying. I think I am with KirkD in thinking that you have a very handsome rifle albeit not what you were anticipating. I would want whatever the correct sights are.
I would let the steam settle and get what you can in recompence and be happy about the parts that are period correct.
Make the best of the situation for yourself considering where you are.
I would let the steam settle and get what you can in recompence and be happy about the parts that are period correct.
Make the best of the situation for yourself considering where you are.
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