Lever Guns with Mags

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:03 am

I grew up shooting lever guns (my first real rifle was a Marlin 39, golden mountie), and I have owned several Marlin and Win 30-30's over the years, but after getting my 2nd Browning BLR (first one I owned was a .270, this one in .308), I have to wonder why Marlin and Win do not change their Lever guns over to Mag fed from Tube fed, or at least offer a mag fed model. It just gives the shooter a much wider range of ammo options and as everyone is talking about how great the performance of Leverevolution ammo is, it would seem like a natural move. Were the two big lever gun mfgs to offer mag fed guns, capable of shooting pointed ammo, then I believe the popularity of lever guns would sky rocket.

Or am I just off base and would the traditionalists in the lever gun community just shun the idea?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:10 am

I doubt the "traditionalists" would give them a second thought.

We've had the:
Winchester 1895, Mdl 88,
Browning BLR,
Savage 99,
Ruger 96,
and I'm positive I've forgotten a few.

These sold at the same time as the tube magazine lever guns. Note which ones are still in production. The only one that held any interest for me is the Winchester 1895. It had a box magazine, but at the same time it had a traditional type action.
The others were just too different for me.

And then there's the fact that most hunting where a lever action just works so well is up close and personal and you just don't need the longer range capability of the pointy bullets.

Joe

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:10 am

The Winchester 1895 could use spire point bullets, it was even chambered in 30-40Krag, 30-06, and the newer ones in 270.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:15 am

I, for one, would LIKE a 'pointy-bullet' levergun, and WITHOUT having to use special polymer-tip ammunition, and WITHOUT that lingering worry of 'I know it's supposed to be safe, but there is STILL something pointy against the primer of those OTHER 45-70 rounds in the tube...'

Seems like you could even engineer something that would allow the option to swtich feeds on a given gun, if the magazine shelled the rounds out backwards into the action like a tube gun.

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:35 am

I doubt the "traditionalists" would give them a second thought.

We've had the:
Winchester 1895, Mdl 88,
Browning BLR,
Savage 99,
Ruger 96,
and I'm positive I've forgotten a few.

I know that they have come before (owned one Savage 99 in .243 years ago), but in the past they were always significantly more expensive (at least in my experience), and w/o the production numbers, so less available, than the tube fed guns. Were that not the case today then I feel that many more folks would be shooting them.

These sold at the same time as the tube magazine lever guns. Note which ones are still in production. The only one that held any interest for me is the Winchester 1895. It had a box magazine, but at the same time it had a traditional type action.
The others were just too different for me.

And then there's the fact that most hunting where a lever action just works so well is up close and personal and you just don't need the longer range capability of the pointy bullets.

Joe

I agree that lever guns are very good in close quarters, but using pointed ammo, with better ballistics, they are an excellent option to shoot from 10feet out to 300 yards. I have done plenty of brush hunting, but it is still nice to be able to take that 300 yard shot from the top of the ridge with the same quick handling rifle that you stalk hunted that pine thicket in the bottom with.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:48 am

You can shoot "pointy" bullets in any levergun chambered in -
.30-30 - .32sp. (soon) - .35 Rem. , 444 Marlin , .450 Marlin , .45-70 ,
.44 Mag. , .357 Mag. , .22 mag. and the .308 Marlin Express right now!
Can you say Hornady???

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:55 am

You can shoot "pointy" bullets from them all now, one chambered and one in the tube. Two shots should be plenty

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:57 am

I know that they have come before (owned one Savage 99 in .243 years ago), but in the past they were always significantly more expensive (at least in my experience), and w/o the production numbers, so less available, than the tube fed guns. Were that not the case today then I feel that many more folks would be shooting them.

Well there you are then. They cost more than their perceived benefits over the tube fed guns were worth to most people. So the manufacturers did not make as many and the cost kept rising.
As you said it's the same today. Browning made a run of Mdl 1895s and they sold, but not like hotcakes. Then they had Miroku make a run for Winchester and they sold, but again no like hotcakes.
They are specialty guns. Heavier, costlier to buy, costlier to feed, and for most hunting situations, not needed.

I agree that lever guns are very good in close quarters, but using pointed ammo, with better ballistics, they are an excellent option to shoot from 10feet out to 300 yards. I have done plenty of brush hunting, but it is still nice to be able to take that 300 yard shot from the top of the ridge with the same quick handling rifle that you stalk hunted that pine thicket in the bottom with.

Ahh yes, the old one size fits all argument. To that I refer you to my sig line.

J

e

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:09 pm

Anybody remember the old Remington pump rifles with the spiral grooved tube mags? IIRC, Models 14 and 141, in .25 and .30 Remington. They were made to shoot pointy bullets.
No reason that the same style magazine wouldn't work on a levergun.

Jack

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:21 pm

I dunno, For my tastes the BLR81 short action fits the bill real nice.
Its traditional in every sense operationally but comes chambered in real high powered rifle chamberings.
But maybe I'm just too easy to please.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:32 pm

The older 1980's BLRs with the steel frame and flat bottom magazine, were the best leveractions ever made, and will rival a Marlin 336 with scope for weight and handling. But they were never real plentiful and always more expensive, and people were into the hot rounds chambered for boltactions, not really relizing how effective a .308 Winchester can be, with less recoil and noise to boot.

They are my favorite all around rifles, capable, with a low powered varible of taking a quick shot or several at close range, or picking a coyote or deer off at 300yds, and when you get back in the truck, you don't have to jack all of the shells through the action.

The older steel framed ones are getting harder to find, I have spend a whole day, walking out the Tulsa Gun Show (biggest gun show in the world) and would sometimes only find a couple in the whole show. People that use them for what they were designed for, and know what they have, don't often trade them off.

The problem with the 88 was cost of manufacture, and they were too far removed from the standard leveraction of the time to apeal to the leveraction people and too much like a leveraction to apeal to the boltaction people. The cross bolt safety was not that well liked by either group, espacally the leveraction people and the trigger pull was not that great.

The Savage 99s were good guns, but once again, many did not warm up to the hammerless design, lever safety, and the action of the lever was an aquired taste. But they sure do make a sweet gun when chambered in 300 Savage, probably the best caliber for this weapon. And by the time the top tang safety models came along, Savage had cheapened the wood, trying to keep costs down, which didn't help. Still they are popular in some areas, even today.

The Sako Finwolf or whatever it was called, never had a chance, I don't think they hardly ever got enough imported to even allow, but a few people to even get a good look at one. However, they probably were a pretty good gun, I have never seen much by Sako that wasn't of good quality.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:47 pm

As far a pointed bullets go, maybe they have some merit in the 30/30 but the way I see it, if you can't take your game with a 150 or 170gr flat point, then I doubt that a pointed bullet will make that much difference.

Now you bump that on up to .308 win class, and maybe the pointed bullet starts to make a real difference. I guess on paper it does.

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:26 pm

Lastmohecken wrote:As far a pointed bullets go, maybe they have some merit in the 30/30 but the way I see it, if you can't take your game with a 150 or 170gr flat point, then I doubt that a pointed bullet will make that much difference.

Now you bump that on up to .308 win class, and maybe the pointed bullet starts to make a real difference. I guess on paper it does.

The primary advantage to the pointed bullet is a flatter trajectory, not bullet size or weight.

You can shoot "pointy" bullets from them all now, one chambered and one in the tube. Two shots should be plenty

Now I have never tried this, but would you not have some feeding issues with this?

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:28 pm

Works for me - 30-06

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:51 pm

Where is the green with envy smilie?

Wow that is a beautiful rifle!

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:48 am

TCB in TN wrote:Where is the green with envy smilie?

Wow that is a beautiful rifle!

Thanks - it's top of my line - my wife gave it to me for our 25th anniversary three years ago (OK - so I did locate and find it - she paid for it) - all she got was a little ring - which she picked out -

I'll admit, it's a nice ring but - after enjoying holding it and showing it to friends - how can it compare to a Hi Grade Winchester 95 in 30-06 I can do those things and enjoy shooting it also - between interruptions of other shooters at the range wanting to see that rifle. Women - gotta love'em.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:52 am

AJMD429 wrote:I, for one, would LIKE a 'pointy-bullet' levergun, and WITHOUT having to use special polymer-tip ammunition, and WITHOUT that lingering worry of 'I know it's supposed to be safe, but there is STILL something pointy against the primer of those OTHER 45-70 rounds in the tube...'

I'm right with you.

Give me a Levergun that takes a 20rd 7.62 box magazine and I'll dump my M4gery faster than you can say "Stoner".

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:06 am

Thanks - it's top of my line - my wife gave it to me for our 25th anniversary three years ago (OK - so I did locate and find it - she paid for it) - all she got was a little ring - which she picked out -

Wow, don't know about you, but after celebrating our 10year earlier this month I have to say that I am soooo lucky to find a woman who could put up with my sorry but for 10 years. I am sure your wife deserves her ring as well! LOL

! Sounds like you both got GREAT gifts.

Give me a Levergun that takes a 20rd 7.62 box magazine and I'll dump my M4gery faster than you can say "Stoner".

Count me in on that one too!

crawdaddyjim · Post by **crawdaddyjim** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:51 pm

Yah done good OJ. I would reckon the Missus would say she got the better end of the deal.

OJ · Post by OJ » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:57 pm

crawdaddyjim wrote:Yah done good OJ. I would reckon the Missus would say she got the better end of the deal.

Yep - she's totally convinced she got the best of the deal - I'm one lucky husband.

Women - gotta love'em