Way off topic. A philosophical question.

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:19 pm

I have been contemplating this topic for some time and I am not sure exactly how to put it. In my travels over this great nation I have been able to compare and contrast geographic regions. One of the things that I have noticed is that in other parts of this great land the people seem to have a greater zest for life. Of all places, Alaska stands out as having the most lively people where as southern New England seems to have a great amount of social malaise . I've noticed people in the Rocky Mountain States as well as the High Plains states have this as well. Has anyone esle observed this? Could it be just my own personal prejudices or inaccurate views? Please feel free to comment.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:32 pm

Define "social malaise". You tryin' to say we'uns is lazy?

Bearhands · Post by **Bearhands** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Being a born and bred Pennsylvanian aka "gun clinger"..... I've traveled the US also (most of the states) and I've noticed that the rural midwest has the most relaxed group, the Rocky Mt types are really nice, the far west don't seem to care about much but they're really helpful! By far the most nervous and aggressive folks seem to be from the most urban areas like New Jersey, NYC and Boston. Texas is in a mindset of it's own it seems. I've only traveled by plane over most of the southeast so I can't comment. Here in Pa we have a very diverse group. People who have migrated from New Jersey etc and hope to find some peace, lots of rural country folk who just like it the way it is and then there's the Pennsylvania Dutch(I'm not talking Amish or any sect thereof)..... They not only like it the way it is, but will downright shun anything that isn't to their liking...hard working people with a hard-set way of doing things that has trickled down for generations. I like it here but also love to travel and meet people from anywhere.

Dislaimer:
I do not mean to offend anyone from any particular part of this great country. The United States is a great place to be and I'll do my damnedest to defend any legal citizen in any part of it.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:23 pm

I like the southwest,people just seem more relaxed.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:51 pm

It is the "mountain life style", lots of exercise, fresh air and adventure. This extends to the Southwest too. Those people in the cities and on the coast don't have a clue, most of them spend their free time at sfjacks.com.

Dave

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:53 pm

I've traveled a bit, and have some opinions about various regions (good and maybe less than good in each instance).

But since I'm an elightened Californian, I am not at liberty to comment. Something I say might be taken in a manner that might remind me of something that feeds some neurosis that in turn necessitates another expensive visit with my Beverly Hills shrink. Or it may have some adverse effect on our environment, encourage somebody to do something that unknowingly endangers a few species that nobody has ever heard of, or be interpreted by somebody as politically incorrect (something worse than violating all 10 Commandments at the altar of a crowded church on Sunday).

Whoops - I mentioned church - I've already offended somebody. Now look at the trouble that you have caused.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:04 pm

Well, I live in CA and unlilke "JohndeFresno" I don't mind commenting on people in other parts of the country. I've was born in the West (OK) and have lived in the South (Atlanta, GA), the North (Chicago, IL), Eastern Seaboard (NC), Washington, D.C., Alexandria, VA and a lot of other places. Lots of good people in all of those areas and plenty of zeal/zest for life there too.

We just had a rousing thread on the Civil War here and the pros and cons of both sides but all involved in the thread were upright guys -- just some different views and some touchy feelings.

Now, I want to make the disclaimer that as said above, I live in CA -- "The Land of Fruits & Nuts". Lots of good guys here too -- just look at "MikeD" and "Jeremy" when he isn't off visiting Indiana.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:44 pm

While I'm not a world traveler, I have been around a bit here in the lower 48 and have lived 54 years--here are my observations on people:

Here in S.E. Pa., people used to be friendly, but are fast becoming nasty.

The big cities all have nasty people (well, not all

)

Upstate Pa. in the mountainous areas, people are good, friendly, outgoing, helpful, with a few low-lifes thrown in.

The Rocky Mountain States I have spent time in. (Colorado, Wy, and Utah) the people are very similar to our Pennsylvania bred UPSTATE MOUNTAINOUS people

Income level does not appear to have an effect on the goodness of people----its where they come from.

My ultimate conclusion--People are people wherever you go---its the congestion & fast living of the big cities and congested areas that make people nasty and defensive. As people, the overwhelming majority of us need space between us. As soon as I leave my little 4 acre homestead and venture out 10 miles down the road into traffic and congestion, I'm ready to fight---I come home and am fine again

---------------Sixgun

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:48 pm

BwanaDave wrote:It is the "mountain life style", lots of exercise, fresh air and adventure. This extends to the Southwest too. Those people in the cities and on the coast don't have a clue, most of them spend their free time at sfjacks.com.

Dave

Okay, look. If you reference a website in a post, with no amplifying information, you have to presume that some people are going to go there out of curiosity. So, maybe next time, you should GIVE ME A F#$&ING WARNING!!!

Excuse me, I have to go shower now. Where did I put that steel wool?

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:21 pm

Otto wrote: Okay, look. If you reference a website in a post, with no amplifying information, you have to presume that some people are going to go there out of curiosity. So, maybe next time, you should GIVE ME A F#$&ING WARNING!!!

Excuse me, I have to go shower now. Where did I put that steel wool?

Uh...ok - thanks for the warning. I won't click there. Apparently, "It isn't prudent."

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:25 pm

JohndeFresno wrote: Apparently, "It isn't prudent."

The "sf" stands for San Francisco. Should I elaborate?

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:13 pm

Otto wrote:
BwanaDave wrote:It is the "mountain life style", lots of exercise, fresh air and adventure. This extends to the Southwest too. Those people in the cities and on the coast don't have a clue, most of them spend their free time at sfjacks.com.

Dave
Okay, look. If you reference a website in a post, with no amplifying information, you have to presume that some people are going to go there out of curiosity. So, maybe next time, you should GIVE ME A F#$&ING WARNING!!!

Excuse me, I have to go shower now. Where did I put that steel wool?

Well Otto, I've gotta say that you pushed the envelope so-to-speak. I went to "sfjacks" and they had a disclaimer on the first page saying it was for those that were 18-years old and older and that the content of the site was sexual in nature. Seeing that, I collapse the site and returned here. BUT you just hadda peek didn't ya???

How long did you hesitate before ya hit the "Enter" button to access the "sfjacks" site?

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:49 pm

If you crowd rats, they eat each other. If you create a political system where politicians can change the rules arbitrarily to favor their friends, you get people (who aren't among that elite clique) who experience depression, anger, and resentment. They lash out with raw violence, if they have no other skill set, or with lawyers and review boards and committees and legislators, if they are more brain than brawn. Those of us caught in either type of crossfire suffer.

You get all that in cities, or in states where most of the population is 'urban' in outlook. From an 'economic' point of view, it is the inevitable result of Keynesian vs. Austrian ('free market') policies, the latter ones NEVER forcing a person to do anything or spend any money for what they don't perceive as a favorable 'deal', and thus not fostering the class warfare and materialism which 'socialism' escalates. The self-anointed who often run things socially and economically in those cities assume that they are more sophisticated, more worldly, and more broad-minded than the hillbillies in 'fly-over-country', and are using their superior abilities and good intentions to build a more 'peaceful' and 'tolerant' society. Funny but sad, and as culturally isolated as many urbanite yuppies are, they have little opportunity to realize the irony that their 'progressive' and 'enlightened' social engineering is destroying all the very things they claim to want, and creating a permanent welfare class of downtrodden people who feel hopeless, when the 'evil' free market would have given those same people true hope and opportunity.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:08 pm

Doc,
Your a smart guy

You said it right.

I do get tired of analyzing why people from all backgrounds are weird. Its most likely why my friends are down to half the number of fingers on one hand-----lots of associates I see all the time, but friends----few. I dislike people more as I grow older.------------Sixgun

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:18 pm

Modoc ED wrote: Well Otto, I've gotta say that you pushed the envelope so-to-speak. I went to "sfjacks" and they had a disclaimer on the first page saying it was for those that were 18-years old and older and that the content of the site was sexual in nature. Seeing that, I collapse the site and returned here. BUT you just hadda peek didn't ya??? How long did you hesitate before ya hit the "Enter" button to access the "sfjacks" site?

Um, NO, I did NOT "peek". I saw the warning, and unfortunately, I have a vague awareness of the kind of depravity associated with that particular town...

Dammit, I just barfed on my keyboard.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:25 pm

What can I say, I'm a native California nut who raises fruit.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:36 pm

Mike D. wrote:What can I say, I'm a native California nut who raises fruit.

There ya go Mike!!!

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:55 am

I've been to California . I think anywhere you live in a compact area you are suppressed in many ways. The area around Truckee Pass is nice as well as the road down to Sacramento. Another nice area is the Davenport area on the coast. One thing that would bother me is the hunting issue. It seems opportunity is very limited.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:18 am

You are right, I should have given a warning. A trip into Pelosi Country is not something for the unprepared.

Dave

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:55 am

bigbore442001 wrote:I have been contemplating this topic for some time and I am not sure exactly how to put it. In my travels over this great nation I have been able to compare and contrast geographic regions. One of the things that I have noticed is that in other parts of this great land the people seem to have a greater zest for life. Of all places, Alaska stands out as having the most lively people where as southern New England seems to have a great amount of social malaise . I've noticed people in the Rocky Mountain States as well as the High Plains states have this as well. Has anyone esle observed this? Could it be just my own personal prejudices or inaccurate views? Please feel free to comment.

It's been my experience that the further south you go the more laid back of an attitude you will discover. In areas with warmer climates there is less need to rush things in order to beat the weather. This translates into a slower pace of life. When I began hanging out up in Sudbury, Ontario I quickly discovered that if I didn't bust butt on outdoor projects I would soon find myself working out in the cold and snow. Back in Oklahoma this wasn't an issue.

As a trucker I get to see and talk with folks from all over the US and Canada. Normal folks working in factories, truckstops, etc. For the most part most people are friendly and easy to talk with regardless of what part of the country I'm in.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:21 am

bigbore442001 wrote:I've been to California . I think anywhere you live in a compact area you are suppressed in many ways. The area around Truckee Pass is nice as well as the road down to Sacramento. Another nice area is the Davenport area on the coast. One thing that would bother me is the hunting issue. It seems opportunity is very limited.

Nope, not true. If you want to hunt deer in CA you can get a tag every year if you want. The most desireable areas (i.e. X Zones) are more difficult to draw but there are over-the-counter deer tags to be had for a good part of the state. Wanna hunt bear? All ya gotta do is get a Bear Tag. No drawings involved. Just pick up a Bear Tag when you get your hunting license. Elk and Antelope tags are more difficult to get but they are available. And they ya got yer coyotes, bob cats, squirrels (bushy tailed and ground), turkeys, hogs, ducks, geese, pheasant, and all manner of other game. If I wanted, I could go hunting everyday of the year. CA has great hunting opportunities along with some great hunters who are filled with zest and zeal.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:36 pm

Dabbin' my big toe in the pond to see just how cold the water is... Regionally, folks are slightly different in their approaches to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but... overall they are just folks. That is to say, they desire those same 3 things. However, culturally, we ASWP have changed our views of what those consist of based on our social circle. Hence, the urbanite desires security as part of his LL&POH, yet the rural customer has a feeling of security based on his understanding of his surroundings and experience. Which is far less likely to include the haphazard applicaion of senseless violence perpetrated by his fellow rural dweller, but is fully cognizant of the haphazard violence wrecked by nature, over which only his reliance on his own skills and possibly those of his neighbors will see him thru.

I don't buy into the inherent laziness or "zest for life" based on region or locale. I believe those are wrought of individual tendencies, sometimes mistakenly imbued with regional indiocracies. Again, that would be stereotyping, something that IS true, but hard to apply in specifics. Raised in CA, I believe that I'm not only tolerant, but willing to allow others to rise to the ocassion. As a high schooler my secondary goals were catching a wave, or a cow... truly diverse activities that outside of HI, would only be found in SoCal.

What expectations are placed on us as children by our parental units have a far more impact on our acheivements than the social climate of the region of this country we found ourselves raised in.

Just my $.02, YMMV.

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:47 pm

The farther I get from population centers, the nicer the folk. Region of the country doesn't matter, and I've "been around."
Said another way, the closer to the earth, the better.

Just my experience.

Q

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:56 pm

I will jump in and nod in agreement with some of the other replies. But here is a bit deeper a jump. So run now or take a deep breath and here we go.

The biggest key is in environment. People were meant to be a part of nature not apart from it. The closer to nature/natural environment you get the closer to life you get, the more alive you are. I have met people who grew up on farms and in rural communities in Mass and Penn who would be welcome and right at home with folks in Ark, Mo or Wisc who are from small rural towns and communities. "Why?" is the next reasonable question. Is it due to their social environment while growing up. Yes, in part it is. Shared ideas of the nature of purpose. (Nature of Purpose could well be another not so "S" of a SA.) But let use delve deeper still, with your kind permission, into the realm of theology for a moment. While my next point(s) will touch on Biblical teaching I could, upon request, site corresponding examples from several other religions.

Basically it is this: The more things you have and possess, the further you distance yourself from nature, the further you are from God/the Divine/ the Creator. For in the Garden of Eden what was the first thing that Adam and Eve did after they introduced sin into the world by disobeying God's command and eating of the Tree of Knowledge? They created clothing to cover their nakedness. Their first act of creation was something designed to put a barrier between them and God and God's Creation. They chose to use something artificial as a way to put distance between them and God. To attempt to hide from God's gaze. All this time later people are still filling their lives with the artificial and in time tend to focus on acquiring more rather than "stopping and smelling the roses". People in crowded man made environments such as the big cities are cut off from the wholesome and life sustaining creation of God and are surround by a world of their own creation. A world of concrete and glass. A world of panic and fear. A world adrift.

(Believe it or not; that was the short version!)

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:52 am

mklwhite wrote:I will jump in and nod in agreement with some of the other replies...

... Basically it is this: The more things you have and possess, the further you distance yourself from nature, the further you are from God/the Divine/ the Creator. For in the Garden of Eden what was the first thing that Adam and Eve did after they introduced sin into the world by disobeying God's command and eating of the Tree of Knowledge? They created clothing to cover their nakedness. Their first act of creation was something designed to put a barrier between them and God and God's Creation. They chose to use something artificial as a way to put distance between them and God. To attempt to hide from God's gaze. All this time later people are still filling their lives with the artificial and in time tend to focus on acquiring more rather than "stopping and smelling the roses". People in crowded man made environments such as the big cities are cut off from the wholesome and life sustaining creation of God and are surround by a world of their own creation. A world of concrete and glass. A world of panic and fear. A world adrift.

(Believe it or not; that was the short version!)

Less is more has become my mantra since my divorce in 2001. Pay cash for the few things I want but attempt to not want anything that could become an idol.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:16 am

Wow, both Griff and AJMD eloquently stated synopsis are great. But it also brings to mind some of the observation that I have experienced over 20+ years of being a road warrior, whether in the trenches or in the board rooms. Back about fifteen years ago I was lunching at a chain restuarant in the L.A area (started with an "A", cheap meat was their forte'...steak and eggs stuff) and got into a conversation pretty much on the philosphical differences between regions. I said that in general the people of southern California seem to have more respect for each other across the economic classes that those in the Bay area or out east, the guy said "that is because people that COME to L.A. feel everyone has the same opportunity to grab the brass ring, sometimes even a couple of times". Turns out, this guy came to L.A. back in the early sixties from Ohio as a hobo, made millions, lost it all, then made millions again. He said without the credentials you need to get your foot in the door out east, you can still make it here. I see that same philosophy carry out in more of the rural areas across the country, yet is stifled in 90% of the urban areas (L.A. exempted). Maybe what AJMD and Griff said contributes to this generalization. As for hunting, California sucks...too many rules and obstacles, same as the upper east coast (in general, Pa seems to have a decorem of sensibility though).

Just my $ .03

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:29 pm

Well, I don't know, I wish I had something concrete to add to this thread, but the more I think about it, the more I am unsure of what I believe. I have met frendly people about everywhere I have been, but also some real jerks.

One thing I do know is this southern country boy hates the large cities, and the older I get the more I hate having to go to one, or pass thru, for any reason. I would rather take a horse whipping then enter a large city. And I don't much care if that city is north or south of the Mason Dixon line, but I sure do hate Chicago, but then again I don't much care for Dallas or Little Rock either.

But what I really hate is when I have to deal with people that move in here from up north, or somewhere and start trying to change our laws to suit their bleeding heart, do gooder, controlling mindset.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:36 pm

"But what I really hate is when I have to deal with people that move in here from up north, or somewhere and start trying to change our laws to suit their bleeding heart, do gooder, controlling mindset."

It isn't just happening in the South, the SouthWest is getting all F***ed up by the same people. First they screwed up the coasts with their thinking, then they moved away from the mess that that thinking created, and now they are imposing it on the rest of us. Look at the budget mess in California. That mess is the direct product of the same type of thinking, the thinking that is now running our federal government. I wish there was some way to keep the perverts and nut cases restricted to their current geographical boundries, a quaranteen of sorts. And what ever happened to state's rights? Now I'm all worked up and P***ed off.

Dave

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:41 am

ok I haven't read all the posts, so this might be redundant, but here is my take. People who have to spend a lot of time indoors due to the weather, and who don't see the sun for months at a time, get grouchy and depressed. Where I grew up in Ohio it was not too bad, winter was cold and gloomy but short. When I moved to Chicago and then Wisconsin, I found the weather worse and the people grouchier.

After coming out to CA I have left all that behind, and haven't felt that annual malaise in 10 years. However, something happens to people that are spoiled as well, they get impatient and selfish. I noticed that Californians hate to wait their turn and will butt in line. Everyone out here zooms through yellow and red lights, they can't accept stopping. Many have rock star mentality, rules don't apply to them. But they seem happier and except for that, more pleasant than people in frozen climates. But I think it's exposure to sunlight that makes the difference.

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:21 pm

I've only traveled a few places.

Southeast - The people are very nice, and eat by far the best tasting food. However, an ordinary 95 degree/95% humidity summer day in South Carolina is more miserable than the hottest day of the year anywhere else in America.
Colorado - The people I met there were great, although nobody was actually FROM Colorado. (???) Beautiful country, even more so in the more forested areas.
Wyoming - Very nice people, indescribably beautiful country. However, I was not impressed by the food. Kinda like England; lots of meat and potatoes with very little taste.
California (coastal) - The most beautiful scenery I have ever seen, and on both sides of the road too! However, nothing else impressed me. The people were somewhat cordial, but only after they had recovered from the shock of realizing that you actually had the audacity to disturb them by saying "hello".
North Carolina (mountains) - The people are just wonderful. The scenery is beautiful. And on the hilltops, there's enough of a breeze to offset the humidity.
Florida (Jacksonville, Daytona Beach) - I was not impressed in any way, but I've heard so many good things about the place that I plan to give it another chance.
Great Lakes region (Wisconsin, Illinois, Pennsylvania) - Possibly the best pro football environment in the country. For the most part, the people were rude...but in a pitiful sort of way. I've never felt so unoffended by such offensive people. Great food in the Amish communities, but only in the Amish communities. Apparently, the states of this region have collectively banned the use of fresh vegetables in public restaurants, opting to go with the many canned varieties.
Alaska - Beautiful country and no people. What more could you want?

bogie

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:10 am

BwanaDave wrote:First they screwed up the coasts with their thinking, then they moved away from the mess that that thinking created, and now they are imposing it on the rest of us.

That's exactly the thought I had about the Californians who poured into Colorado in the early '90s. (I moved here from Ohio for the third time in '91) One of the first things the Californios did was vote in the ban on the spring bear hunt. Then they stated wondering why so many bears started showing up in towns a few years later. They can't seem to make the connection...

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:08 am

Read The Beast In The Garden, it is about how the same thinking caused a mt lion problem around Boulder which cost lives.

Dave

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:04 pm

I did read it. It took place before the flood of Californios. It was in the People's Republic of Boulder, though--no difference, there.

scarville · Post by **scarville** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:19 am

JohndeFresno wrote:Apparently, "It isn't prudent."

"Prurient" is much closer.

geobru · Post by **geobru** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:29 am

I have spent most of my life in Washington, with a 5 year stint in Oregon, 3 years in Idaho and 2 years in Minnesota. The biggest contrast occurs everywhere between urbanite and out of towners, although the pace of life speeds up when ever you are anywhere close to large metro areas. I realized this when I moved to Minnesota from a small town on the I-5 corridor half way between Seattle and Portland. In Washington, I was always hurrying to get something done, somewhere. When I moved to Minnesota, I lived about 20 miles west of Duluth. It was a very cold place, but the people were very friendly, and they were NOT in a hurry. I found this out one day while in a checkout line at the grocery store. I was about the fifth person in line and the checker was BSing with the customer she was checking out. At first I was annoyed, but when I looked at the people in front of me, not a one was acting like they thought anything of it. I remember thinking that maybe this was going to be a more layed back place to live than where I had come from. As the line moved forward, that checker talked to every one as they came up, including me, a complete stranger! I was impressed, and that was pretty typical of the people I met there.

They did tend to be clannish at times. One of my co-workers told me not to worry about ever being considered a local. He lived on a road named after his family, and was the second generation to live there, and he wasn't considered a local!!

I live away from the hustle and bustle of the I-5 corridor now and it is a slower pace here.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:23 am

[quote="scarville"][quote="JohndeFresno"]Apparently, "It isn't prudent."[/quote]

"Prurient" is much closer.[/quote]

Prurient implies inducing arousal or desire, somehow a group of guys sitting around "pleasuring" themselves doesn't do it for me, in fact it has the opposite effect. I guess it is a case of different strokes for different folks.

Dave

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:13 am

I live in central Maine now, but grew up in SE PA (Furlong to be precise, Sixgun!).

I spent 7 years in Boston. Most of the people there seem to be hyper-aggresive, rude, and
generally nasty. There are exceptions - my landlady and her two sons were great people. My
wife and I still get Christmas cards from her - 15 years on. Living there was a necessary
part of my life, I suppose, but I'd never go back. Evah..........

People in rural Maine are much more laid back, and much more willing to help out. They also
tend to be pretty polite. People from southern Maine and the rich coastal sections tend to
be liberal A******S - lobstermen are the exception here! They are a breed unto themselves.
The economy is more fragile up here, and folks tend to find themselves stuck in the
snow or without power more often, so they tend to help their neighbor more.

SE PA has changed an awful lot in my lifetime. Bucks County used to be quite rural, but is
now mostly suburbia. And the traffic is appalling! Lots more brown people doing service work,
too. It used to be an event to see a black person in town, but now a LOT of the service jobs
are done by minorities. Things seem to have gone upscale, too. Last time I was visiting my
folks, I had a hard time finding an auto parts store. Really! That wasn't a problem when I was
a kid......The demographics have totally changed.

I agree with most of the folks above - the more rural people are, the more laid-back they seem
to be.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 am

I'm personally boycotting Maine products until you folks dump the two traitors you call senators.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:05 pm

Having lived in upstate NY (more cows than people), NW FL (more gators than people), central CA, and the US Virgin Islands, and having travelled the caribbean and most of the US, I think environment is key to culture.

It is no accident that Northen Europeans (to include Britain) have advanced our lifestyle by eons over anything created in warmer places. if you take the Europeans, to include US, Canada, Australia, we have created the world as it is. If you live in Mexico, Most of Africa, The caribbean, or the SE US, there is less NEED for technological breakthoughs and the "nervous and agressive" attitude that comes from living where the growing season is JUST long enough to grow corn (and maybe not), where ya have to heat your shelter much of the year (stockpile money or wood), etc. Ya gotta hustle or yer gonna be hungry, cold or dead.

This leads to an aggressive mindset. As one fellow I know, an Ethiopian educated in the UK and US put it, (my) people looked at mountains for eons and wondered what was up there. (European and American) people GO THERE. (my) people looked upon the moon forever, Americans WENT THERE. (My) people walked, Europeans and americans built trains, trucks, cars and airplanes.

That same NYC or London "nervous agression" built the darned world we live in, including the guns, the iron stoves, the cars, the medical breakthroughs, etc.

Most of us feel the wear of such a life and yearn for simpler existence. I know several who have "chucked it all", bought boats and sail the seas, living a quiet, slower-paced life UNTIL they get sick or old, then they come back to the "rat race" for heart surgery, retirement villages, etc....

It ain't all bad.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:21 pm

A good life is whereever and however you make it. Personally, I need my peace and quiet, but also need to be able to attend events that could only be found in the larger metropolitan areas. It's not where people come from, it's how crowed it is when they get to where they are going. Crowds = Liberals

mergus · Post by **mergus** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:54 pm

I too have noticed that there seems to be large regional differences in the way people think and act. I'm originally from a nasty suburban nieghborhood of Wash DC. The area was dirty and each time I stepped out of my yard I was constantly looking over my shoulder to keep from being beat up. When I was 12, my parents moved us to the Eastern Shore of Md, a neighborhood of 1/3 acre homes where your neighbors stood in their back yards and shot geese flying overhead (and nobody minded).

It was there that I discovered what my father had been trying to explain to me in "Southern Hospitality". People who didn't know you said hello when they walked by you. Every pick up driver in the county waived at you when you drove by them (even if they didn't know you).

12 years and one ugly divorce later, I followed a job to Vermont where I was pretty sure I'd fallen into a celestial worm hole and landed in the middle of an alien civilisation. While the hunting and shooting aspect of life wasn't bad, the attitude of the people was/is hard to fathom. Not only does NOBODY say hi to anybody, but the actively avoid looking at you and practicing the most basic of courtesies. I would hold a door open for a women and when one did respond, it was quite often muttering under their breaths. The area is rife with rude NYC people and even ruder Bostonians.

After 24 years in Vt I'm convinced that there is a huge difference in the way people interact between northeast US and people south of the Mason Dixon line. I also firmly believe that the shortened season up here has a lot to do with that difference. The concept of "manana" (sp?) is unknown up here.

In closing, in reading the first post in this string, I'm glad to see its not just my imagination in thinking that there are differences, but that somebody else thinks so too.

Mergus

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Hobie wrote:Define "social malaise". You tryin' to say we'uns is lazy?

jcwaters · Post by **jcwaters** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:24 am

There are some issues with the generalization. For example an unemployed 400lb guy from the plains is probably going to be more miserable than a fit and active 28 year old poetry professor from an all girls school (Bryn Mawr, Moore, etc.). But generally, yes, I agree. There's a number of reasons:

1) I find N.E. cities are much older/dirtier/and crumbling. Years of use, abuse, and disrepair has left the urban northeast awash in rust, broken glass, and accumulated spray paint. There is no real way to fix this, other than some kind of economic or social factor that drives property and infrastructure recovery and reuse.
2) Liberal northern sentiments are poison. Allowing large numbers of the southern population to flow upwards in the 1960's and flourish by suckling at the teet of state welfare may have been seen as state philanthropy in earlier/more economically successful times but now its obvious that it was a huge mistake. No one that I know has never supported yet, yet there it is.
3) Idle hands are the devil's playground: High population density means increased competition for resources (jobs particularly) which means a lot of people have and a lot of people do not. This means higher crime rates, mix in the hoplophobic mentality of many urban northeasterners and you have a dangerous mix of unarmed middle class people and well armed criminals.
4) There is an inversely proportionate relationship between the number of people carrying and the relative abundance of a**holes on the street. After spending a year in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which was totally disarmed after the 2003 bombings, I am sure that this statement is 100% true.
5) Finally, Henry Rollins (anti gun, but still rocks) once described life in the NorthEast as "hard, cold, miserable; with everyone stacked up on top of each other".

The big city is hardly a place for a species built for the open Savannah. I realized this in Saudi, looking out over the endless expanse of the Najdi Plateau; now that my wife and I are back home in the US we will for sure be visiting the plains and west more often. Heck, we will probably end up living there. Throw in the specter of crime, resource contention, the overall terrible attitudes of a certain population of individuals in the city, corrupt local govt, "pride fest", "greek week", revolving door justice, and upwardly mobile shmucks from the suburbs who come in and walk around like the own the place (I am looking at YOU Long Island, North Jersey, and King of Prussia); no wonder people are miserable.

I also think that suburban and urban consumer culture has birthed a beast that can no longer be fed, and I think this has a lot to do with the overall crappy attitudes in our 'urbs and suburbs.

Bear in mind that I have lived over a third of my life in Philadelphia; I am a city boy who has realized that big skies are better than big buildings.

Also, I am a new member to the forums, I'll post an intro shortly after this.