45 Colt Lever gun / revolver thread

[J Miller]

In other threads I've noticed an almost paranoia about owning guns in the same caliber that have different strength levels. A good example of this might be my Iver Johnson's Cattleman (Uberti) and Ruger Blackhawk. This paranoia also seems to flow over to owning rifles and handguns of different strength levels in the same caliber.
Such as IJ and a Marlin 1894.

The worries some folks seem to have is that the owner will invariably load or buy hot ammo for one that will find it's way into the weaker of the two. This of course causes a KABOOM that ruins the gun and causes the shooter to mess their pants. They act as if every body is a moron with no self control or control over their personal actions.

I wonder why this paranoia. I've lived with the .45 Colt cartridge chambered in a variety of guns for 35 years. I've shot every kind of factory ammo I could get my hands on, and hand loaded uncountable thousands of my own rounds to various pressure levels. I have yet to KABOOM any of my guns.

Today I own guns in three strength levels: Colt SAA level, S&W 25-5 level, Ruger level ( includes the Win 94AE and Marlin 1894).
Most of my ammo is loaded to either factory levels or slightly higher levels that are safely usable in all of them. Only a small fraction of my ammo is loaded to the Ruger only level. I do not worry about it. I acknowledge there is a difference in these loads and am careful not to put the Ruger only loads in the Cattleman.

What I'm failing to understand is why the appearance of fear and paranoia in some folks. It's as if they feel that if a +P load is in the same county with them it will find it's way into their gun and blow it up. This is an unnatural and bothersome behavior to me. It intrigues me and yet makes me worry about these people.

Maybe it's because I was born when people acknowledged that life is not safe. Everything is potentially dangerous if care and common sense is not used. I take personal responsibility in all my shooting activities. I'm aware that things can happen, but I'm not going to be the one who does it.

Here are a few things I do that help with this:
I have a color code I sometimes use on my ammo:
GREEN = SAAMI spec, safe for all guns.
BLUE = More than SAAMI, but not at Ruger level, safe for all good shape guns.
RED = Much more than SAAMI, RUGER ONLY
BLACK = Black powder, for any gun when the mood strikes.

It's been a while since I color coded any ammo, but I do color code my custom made labels when I make them.

I know my bullets.
If my ammo has a Lyman 454190 in it or similar, then it's SAAMI spec.
If it's got a Keith SWC in it then it's either slightly over SAAMI or a Keith load.
If it's got a Speer 250gr SWC in it then it's SAAMI level
If it's got a 270gr WFN or a 300gr LTCFN it's RUGER ONLY
If it's got a jacketed bullet in it, then there's good chance it's RUGER ONLY.

I label ALL my ammo.
I do not leave ammo around that is not identified. Sometimes it's boxed with labels on the box, or sometimes it's in a zip lock bag with a label either on or in the bag. Regardless of how it's contained all of it is identified.
If I take a hundred rounds from the larger bulk supply I label it.

I pay attention to what I am doing.
When I pick up a gun to load I pay attention to which caliber it is. I do not just grab some ammo willie nillie and stuff it in the chamber. That just doesn't happen.

No exceptions.

Common sense and care are all it takes. Paranoia is unnecessary.

This is my take on things and is not meant to reflect on any specific person alive or dead, weather or not they are a member of this or any other on line forum I'm currently or an ex member of.
Nuther words don't get your knickers in a bunch .

Joe

[86er]

What's to stop someone from using Cor Bon, Buffalo Bore, or other hot load in a "not safe for" firearm? If you don't know better and got the ammo free, on sale or whatever you should at least see the warning on the box. I don't worry about mixing hot ammo - I know what factory loads are appropriate and I put handloads in a Box marked with the load. I don't think it is something to obsess over. A regular dose of common sense should be more than enough to keep you straight.

[Old Ironsights]

FWIW... that's another reason for the SP101 vs almost any other 5-shot .357...

It will handle my Rossi Loudenboomers...

[adirondakjack]

If ya have a magic marker or two, no problem. I used to color-code "Red for rifle" , "black for BP", everything else was "safe smokeless" regardless of gun used. Just a marker swipe across the bottom. Not brain science or rocket surgery.

[JustaJeepGuy]

A regular dose of common sense should be more than enough to keep you straight.

Yeah, but we all know about "common" sense, don't we?

[J Miller]

A regular dose of common sense should be more than enough to keep you straight.

Yeah, but we all know about "common" sense, don't we?

Mm hm, it ain't so common any more.

Joe

[Hobie]

Shooting carries many implied responsibilities including knowing which ammo is appropriate to the firearm used and being able to identify it. Attention to detail!

[Don McDowell]

Common sense and care are all it takes. Paranoia is unnecessary.

Very wise and profound words Joe.

[Str8man]

I've never have a problem keeping my ammo seperate but I shoot 357's amost exclusively.
I load nickel cases and Brass cases differently but I only shoot the Winchester 145 grain silvetips out of my rifle for deer so it's easy to keep things organized.

I was out shooting with a friend though who had a 73 Uberti Winchester in 45 Colt and two stainless Ruger Vaquero's in 44 magnum. He was pumping off rounds out of the 73 when he got a REALLY loud one.
He stopped and ejected the case and it was a full house 44 magnum.
The case expanded to the 45 colt chamber and split a little but otherwise did no real harm.
I thought him very lucky considering the strength of the 1873 uberti rifle and a full powered 44 magnum.
He is a lot more careful now.

My big oops moment was I bought some jacketed soft point 357 magnum ammo at an auction once and they were in a Remington box and appered to be factory ammo.
They weren't.
I realized it after the first round when my full sized octagon barreled 92 rifle stung my shoulder with the first shot.
I don't know what whoever loaded them was shooting them in but they were HOT rounds.
I'm lucky I shot it in my 92 first instead of My SA Colt.
I pulled the rest of the loads and reloaded the brass.
I should have known better than to trust an open box of second hand ammo no matter how good it looked.

[Old Savage]

Let's see - do I cut the red wire or the blue wire????

[Ysabel Kid]

A regular dose of common sense should be more than enough to keep you straight.

Yeah, but we all know about "common" sense, don't we?

Mm hm, it ain't so common any more.

Joe

+1

Good system Joe!

[meanc]

I've bypassed all that confusion.

Every pistol caliber firearm I own is a recent production Ruger, Marlin, or Winchester.

So no fear of touching off one of those "Ruger Only" loads in something that can't handle it.

[CaptainFinn]

I load my .45 Colt revolver loads with a Keith SWC and use a 300-grain flatnose GC for my rifle loads in my Rossi Leverguns. I cleverly thought this would keep me from confusing the two loads...

On christmas eve afternoon I took my little sister up on our uncle's mountain to show her the treestand we'd be hunting on the following morning.(She was visiting from out of state).

At her suggestion, I grabbed my rifle (Rossi 24" .45 colt with a Marbles' Peep) and my revolver (.45 Ruger Bisley Vaquero), because she said I'd feel like an idiot if we hiked up to the treestand and there were a bunch of deer there and we were unarmed. Prophetic words !

We didn't even make it up on the mountain. We hiked maybe fifty, sixty yards down the hollow and suddenly a trio of does made their presence known, about seventy yards or so up on the side of the mountain, in amidst a bunch of scrub trees, mostly oak and poplar four to six inches in diameter.

She handed me the rifle and I braced, took a bead on the least-obscured doe, and fired. No response from the deer. Muttering a few choice words, Ilevered the gun and fired again. One deer sort of jumped and the three does moved about ten yards up the side of the mountain, and stopped to look abck down in our direction.

I fired a third time. One of the does fell, scrambled, and then they all seemed to vanish up the hill.

I cleared the chamber of the Rossi, lowered the hammer, and reloaded the magazine with three fresh rounds. I handed my sister the rifle, checked my pistol, and started to climb up the hill. I had her climb slightly in front of me as we moved up the rather steep incline.

Fifty yards or so up the hill we reached a sort of 'shelf' about ten yrads wide and about forty yards long. I stopped to catch my breath and Carly blurted, "Hey, I see it !" She raised the rifle, levered a round, and fired. I came over and looked where she'd pointed, and there lay a deer. We walked over and examined it. One shot, just below the back of the skull, about three inches down on the neck. Spine was shattered, in and out. I was puzzled, as there were no other wounds on the deer, and I was certain I'd hit it. I stood up and looked around. This didn't look like the exact spot where I'd fired at the deer, so I moved about ten or fifteen yards down the 'shelf' looking for tracks or sign...

About twenty yards to my right lay another doe, this one kicking slightly.

My sister and I moved over towrads it. I could see blood spray on the dead leaves and brush, a large area covered by the exit wound. My shot--the deer carly shot was evidently one of the other two does--had hit this deer dead broadside, about two or three inches in front of the shoulder in the deer's front chest area . It exited out the opposite shoulder, in almost a mirror-image to the entry wound.

The deer was kicking, but not much. Later, when butchering it, I found massive tissue damage and I think the windpipe may have been hit. So I drew my Ruger and from about five feet away, put a shot into the back of the deer's skull, just behind the left ear. The bullet exited from the right eye and the deer was down peramanantly.

A great hunt. My sister's first deer, and my doe tag filled on the second-to-last day of the hunting season. So we dragged the does down to the trail and went to get the four-wheelers to bring them back to the house...

I went to unload the guns before putting them in my truck, and to my surprise, I had loaded the hot 300-grain gas checks in both the rifle AND the revolver. This is a pretty stout 'Paco' load, I think 25 grains of H110 under a 300-grain hardcast GC flatnose, the 'dual crimp groove' slug, I think a Lee mould, IIRC. From the rifle it goes about 1800 feet per second. Never tried it from the Ruger before.

My standard Ruger load is a Lyman 424454 Keith SWC over 9 grains of Universal, app 1,000 fps out of the Ruger. Never thought about trying the hot loads in the handgun, as the Keith bullet always handled any chores I gave it.

I didn't notice any kick or difference in recoil shooting the 300-grain hot load through my revolver. I'd almost taken my adjustable-sighted Uberti SAA instead that morning...glad I didn't ! I'm sure it wouldn't have digested that hot load nearly as well !

[Jayhawker]

I've labeled ammo, used different bullets for different power levels and tried to be observant, but sometimes "stupid" pays us a visit anyway. Blowing out 444 brass in a 45-70 is just one example. The brass does look pretty neat, but you're truly minute of barn that way. Keeping things separate is just another way of trying to keep all our fingers and toes attached. For those that haven't done something silly, you're either lucky, anal, or haven't shot enough to have one of those moments.

[Noah Zark]

I circumvent the problem by having one load strength for all of the weapons with the same chambering, and sufficiently light that they are safe in the weakest guns. I don't hunt, so that frees me up a lot. In addition, I like to stock a minimum of SKUs for bullets, and use the same bullet for multiple applications -- e.g., 230 gr FMJ in 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

The only exception is 45-70; I have some "Marlin only" loads that kill at both ends, and those are kept separate with color coding. I also color the primers with a colored permanent marker so as to give them positive ID.

Noah

[J Miller]

I've labeled ammo, used different bullets for different power levels and tried to be observant, but sometimes "stupid" pays us a visit anyway. Blowing out 444 brass in a 45-70 is just one example. The brass does look pretty neat, but you're truly minute of barn that way. Keeping things separate is just another way of trying to keep all our fingers and toes attached. For those that haven't done something silly, you're either lucky, anal, or haven't shot enough to have one of those moments.

Lucky; not really
Anal; somewhat but not to extremes
Not shot enough; yeah right, I lost count of the umpteen thousands of rounds I've fired years ago.

It doesn't take luck, being anal, or not shooting to avoid miscues. All it takes is paying attention to details and the exercise of common sense and care.

As for firing the wrong cartridges in the wrong guns, I have never done so by negligence. However I have done so to provide visual aids to a friend who was teaching a gun / hunter safety course.
We fired a 30-30 in a 303 Brit chamber, that was funny looking.
And we fired a 22 LR in a .22 Magnum, that one didn't even split but it sure expanded.
Neither of these would be dangerous to the gun or the shooter, but it's still the wrong thing to do.

Joe

[JustaJeepGuy]

One question though, Joe--if you were to die tomorrow, would whoever acquires your guns and ammo know to keep everything separate? You know some fool would just put it all together. I can see someone down the line saying, "Duh, It's all .45 Colt, so it all goes together!"

[J Miller]

One question though, Joe--if you were to die tomorrow, would whoever acquires your guns and ammo know to keep everything separate? You know some fool would just put it all together. I can see someone down the line saying, "Duh, It's all .45 Colt, so it all goes together!"

If I were to die tomorrow I'd be upset! As for who gets my guns, that would be my wife. Hmmmm, I'll ask her if she knows the difference, then educate her if she don't.
Any body else is on their own.

Joe

[Scrateshooter]

Grandpa just loads SAA safe loads to the upper end, out of the Rossi they have no problem putting a 255 Keith bullet clean through a 150# hog.

[Old Savage]

Always enjoy these discussions

[Griff]

I use the box color to designate what type of rounds are in it.
Red: BP handgun
Blue: BP rifle
Gray: 1873/Henry smokeless, 100 rnd box=lead, 50rnd box=jacketed
Green: Colt smokeless, 100 rnd box=lead, 50rnd box=jacketed
Yellow: 1892 only
Simple, Griff proof!

[J Miller]

One question though, Joe--if you were to die tomorrow, would whoever acquires your guns and ammo know to keep everything separate? You know some fool would just put it all together. I can see someone down the line saying, "Duh, It's all .45 Colt, so it all goes together!"

JJG,
I asked my wife last night if she'd know the difference and she said: ..."huh, ahhh I don't think so." So I'll have to educate her on my methods. Maybe print out a legend on card stock and post it over my ammo. Either that or just shoot up all the Ruger stuff. Hey that would be fun.

I sure as heck don't plan on croaking today. Yeah, umm you see today was tomorrow yesterday... you know, when you asked. I just wanted to get that straight.


Griff,

Have you taught anybody else your schedule of color coding? I mean what if you were to ........ nah I won't say that..

Joe

Joe

[Griff]

One question though, Joe--if you were to die tomorrow, would whoever acquires your guns and ammo know to keep everything separate? You know some fool would just put it all together. I can see someone down the line saying, "Duh, It's all .45 Colt, so it all goes together!"

Griff,
Have you taught anybody else your schedule of color coding? I mean what if you were to ........ nah I won't say that..
Joe

The wife would only go for her .38s, the son knows what's what. For many years I would carefully label each plastic box of ammo I loaded... but I found myself using the same loads... over and over again. When I started cowboy action shooting it was necessary to keep things simple and reduce the number of different types of loads I used. Since the CAS stuff is all pistol cartridge in main match ammo, I only need two loads, thankfully both pistol and rifle boolits can work with either smokeless and BP, with just a change in lube. Although they say you can use SPG with smokeless... the summers here make me a little concerned about it's migrating into the powder.

Oh yea, the yellow box stuff is stored separately from the CAS stuff.

[JustaJeepGuy]

I sure as heck don't plan on croaking today. Yeah, umm you see today was tomorrow yesterday... you know, when you asked. I just wanted to get that straight.

Okay, I get ya. Glad you didn't die today! Hope not tomorrow either! (today's tomorrow, not tomorrow's yesterday, whatever that means)

[JohndeFresno]

....Not brain science or rocket surgery.

Good one! I'm gonna 'member it!

[JohndeFresno]

[snip]
I have a color code I sometimes use on my ammo:
GREEN = SAAMI spec, safe for all guns.
BLUE = More than SAAMI, but not at Ruger level, safe for all good shape guns.
RED = Much more than SAAMI, RUGER ONLY
BLACK = Black powder, for any gun when the mood strikes.
[snip]
...don't get your knickers in a bunch .

Joe

I share loads with my brother-in-law. He's red-green color blind. Hmmmm...

[J Miller]

[snip]
I have a color code I sometimes use on my ammo:
GREEN = SAAMI spec, safe for all guns.
BLUE = More than SAAMI, but not at Ruger level, safe for all good shape guns.
RED = Much more than SAAMI, RUGER ONLY
BLACK = Black powder, for any gun when the mood strikes.
[snip]
...don't get your knickers in a bunch .

Joe

I share loads with my brother-in-law. He's red-green color blind. Hmmmm...

Well, this is the code I use, and I can see colors fine. For your brother in law you might try using nickled cases for +P and brass for standard. Or just use colors he can see. I bought a multi pack of colored Sharpie markers at WalMart. They gots lots of colors.

Joe

[JohndeFresno]

Two good ideas! I especially like the nickel case idea - very easy to differentiate.

[Old Ironsights]

Go the other way.

+P works the brass more and the nickle will start to flake sooner.

Use Brass for +P and Nickle for standard/mild loads.

[Griff]

Go the other way.
+P works the brass more and the nickle will start to flake sooner.
Use Brass for +P and Nickle for standard/mild loads.

+1

[Old Ironsights]

Go the other way.
+P works the brass more and the nickle will start to flake sooner.
Use Brass for +P and Nickle for standard/mild loads.

+1

Yeah... lesson hard learned on this end.