OT- Relic 1851 Navy

[Mike D.]

On Saturday, while excavating an 1870s privy pit in search of antique bottles, I pulled out a rusted hulk of a Colt 1851. All that was recognizable were the brass trigger guard and grip parts. You could tell what it was by the hammer shape, but what a wreck that thing was. Sorry, but I forgot a picture. The homeowner whose yard we were doing the dig in was really excited to see that relic come to light, so I gave it to him. I even got him to pull the bucket for me for a while. If anyone cares, I'll get a photo next weekend when we return to dig a couple more pits. Actually, guns, especially pistols are often found in privy pits. I suppose that when they wore out, or became obsolete, they were tossed out with the rest of the trash. Aside from their more obvious use, privys were simply receptacles for everyday household garbage.

[dr walker]

That is really neat.
Did you find any good bottles?

[Griff]

Yep, I'd find it interesting...

[Mike D.]

Yes, many bottles, but the great ones were broken by the depositors. The hole was very small and hard to deal with. It was only a bit over 7' deep, so not the worst we've done. We did two more yesterday and took home over 150 local embossed beer, liquor and pharmacy bottles. Several turn of the century quart milks, too. All hand made and from the early 1890s to right around 1900. We cover the area around the pits with tarps so to make it easier to fill and clean up. When we are done you pretty much can't even tell we were there.

Here are some beer and whiskey bottles in context. Lotta dirty fun and keeps us off the streets.

[20cows]

Pretty coll stuff!

[morgan in nm]

Looks like a crappy job Sorry, I couldn't resist.

To be brutally honest, I wished I lived closer to some older encampments so I could dig around. The closest thing I have ever dug up was in an old building I bought years ago that had a hidden room all sealed up. When I broke through the wall one day, I discovered an unmentioned "cat" house with beds, lanterns, signs, and tokens. It had closed down in the 20's and it was a dirty secret for the small town. I didn't find much money there but a few bottles. I sold the building to a fellow who started remodeling it and he found a fair quantity of coins under the floor.

[Mike D.]

Yep, it certainly is "Poop". Century old "deposits" are nothing more than seed filled soft soil. No harmful bacteria remain whatsoever. What is there are whatever bones and assorted items that were used to prepare meals, and the residue of a family's everyday life. Boy's marbles and girl's dolls are found in nearly every pit. This tells us that sibling rivalry is nothing new. The bones and seeds give insight to what they preferred to eat, and the glass hints to their affluence, or lack of it. Turkeys were not ordinary table fare in the 19th Century, but chickens, ducks, geese, pigs, deer, antelope and elk sure were. By the 1890s all local big game, except deer, was gone and market hunting was decimating the waterfowl. The huge appetites of large cities like San Francisco caused the depletion of most anything edible within a day's shipping of those locations. The introduction of ice to rail cars only served to encourage the slaughter. Miller and Lux, a huge ranching complex in the Fresno and Kings County areas, was responsible for saving the resident elk population from certain extinction, but it was too late for the antelope and big horn sheep. Even the mighty grizzly was hunted into the ground, with the last one killed near Vallejo in 1922. My Grandfather remembered seeing them on the Putah Creek ranch as late as 1911. The "good old days"? Not really.

[kirkwood]

Spore-forming bacteria can last for hundreds of years below ground in contaminated soil. Those privy pits could easily harbor tetanus and anthrax spores. Anthrax may or may not be rare, but tetanus spores could be very common in a privy pit. I hope you are up to date on tetanus innoculations in particular.

[Bullet Bob]

Most interesting post I've read anywhere in a while, thanks.

[AmBraCol]

That reminds me of an cartoon I saw - YEARS ago. A cowboy, holding the reins to two horses, standing outside an old outhouse. He was doubled over, laughing, and the caption read "You gotta be joking! You mean your brand new 45???" or words to that effect. One can only imagine... Maybe this is where that happened and the cartoonist got the caliber wrong...

[Gun Smith]

Several years ago I identified a Colt SAA in 38/40 for a friend that had been found in an outhouse behind a bar down the alley from my home. (I lived in a commerical building loft.) Of course it was a solid mass of metal, but the grips were perfect and could have been put on another gun.

[Modoc ED]

Mike -

I've got a nephew in Augusta, GA that digs for bottles. He digs in privys, in old camps, etc.. He has managed to raise a family of 4 throughout the years and lives quite comfortably on his finds and sales. He's also found guns and other things.

Up here in the Alturas area (Alturas, Newell, Captain Jack's Stronghold) peopel search the lava flows for antique items. There were alot of Indian and U. S. Army conflicts in the area along with some immigrant trails (Fandango Pass for one) and people find all kinds of items from the old west times.

[Mike D.]

Mike -

I've got a nephew in Augusta, GA that digs for bottles. He digs in privys, in old camps, etc.. He has managed to raise a family of 4 throughout the years and lives quite comfortably on his finds and sales. He's also found guns and other things.

Up here in the Alturas area (Alturas, Newell, Captain Jack's Stronghold) peopel search the lava flows for antique items. There were alot of Indian and U. S. Army conflicts in the area along with some immigrant trails (Fandango Pass for one) and people find all kinds of items from the old west times.

Ed, I used to hunt on the Flournoy ranch down by Likely and they had a battlefield on the place called "Infernal Caverns(?)", I believe. One of my dad's classmates was West Williams, whose family also ranched near Likely. We found lots of bottles and Indian arrowheads down there, back in the '60s. I have also dug bottles at Eagleville and Cedarville, but mostly go there in search of arrowpoints.

[Mike D.]

Spore-forming bacteria can last for hundreds of years below ground in contaminated soil. Those privy pits could easily harbor tetanus and anthrax spores. Anthrax may or may not be rare, but tetanus spores could be very common in a privy pit. I hope you are up to date on tetanus innoculations in particular.

I have dug privy pits for close to 50 yrs, and have yet to encounter any known harmful bacteria. Valley fever is prevalent in the drier soils of the San Joaquin Valley and points south, but is not a problem up this way where alluvial loam prevails. I exercise caution when digging and will not open or enter a pit without gloves. Usually, kevlar gloves are worn when the potential for serious cuts is encountered. Broken glass in a privy pit makes for some especially nasty wounds the take some time to heal. I have not been cut in many a year and certainly do not plan to. If the matter is extremely dusty and dry we wear masks to prevent the inhalation of harmful materials that can be suspended in these conditions. This time of year, the soil is very moist down to at least 5 feet, making the dig more enjoyable and less likely to be harmful.

[Modoc ED]

Mike -

Like you, I'm not exactly sure of the name "Infernal Caverns(?)" but there was a running battle there between the Modoc Indians and the U. S. Calvary across the Likely Plains/Tables and the Calvary made a stand in the foothills to the West of Likely. There are I think 4 graves of some of the Calvary men on the hillside. After the battle, the Calvary Troop proceeded North to Alturas where their Captain died from his wounds. They buried him along banks of the North Fork of the Pitt River just before it joins with the South Fork of the Pitt River to form the Pitt River. There is a headstone for the Captain along the river bank but his body is actually buried just west of the headstone and the grave is marked with a faint cross scratched into a rock formation. They did that so that the Indians could not find the grave and desecrate the body.

[Mike D.]

Despit our being back in the area digging more bottles last weekend, I completely forgot about the relic Colt until this afternoon. A local walked up to us while we were deep in our excavation and asked us if we were the guys that found the gun. It seems that the owner of the propeerty where it was found has been sharing with his neighbors. That is a good thing because more of them have given us the green light to invadse their yards. Anyway, I had him bring the gun out and I took a couple of photos of the thing. He hasn't touched it, but some of the rust is beginning to crumble as it dries. There is even a tiny vestige of the wood grip evident. This is what we found in that privy. It could be a '62 Police, but I haven't really examined it closely.

[awp101]

Is the barrel bent or is it the camera angle?

Of course a bent barrel is the least of it's worries...

[J Miller]

Mike,

Did you ever find any guns in old privys that were dropped in loaded? If so what happens to the ammo or power and balls?

Joe

[Sixgun]

Mike,
Very interesting post! Thank you. A little smelly, .....but interesting. -----------Sixgun

[Mike D.]

Back in the '70s I dig a .45 Colt SA from a circa 1907 privy in a mining camp named Wonder, NV. It was wrapped in old newspapers and had 4 cartridges loaded, but no empties. The gun actually worked. The super dry Nevada soil kept it nearly rust free. I eventually traded it for a .38-40 1873 carbine. We have also dug some other "rust-o-matics" around here, too. A few old H&R .32 and .38 revolvers that were loaded, a Bulldog .44 that I can't tell if it's loaded, or not, and numerous other small revolvers of unknown make. Privy pits often have shotshells and rifle cases in them, too. I have found dozens of Winchester cartidges and cases, most of which are thrashed but readable. An outhouse is really a potpourri of the daily lives of the users.

[Rusty]

I was talking to one of our store managers not long ago who grew up in South Tampa. The area where he grew up was one that was used by the Rough Riders as an encampment before they were shipped over to Cuba. He said as kids digging as kids will they found all kinds of bottles and other camp junk.

[octagon]

MikeD: I used to go to a place in N.Ca on the ocean that used to be a beer joint way back. They tossed the bottles out back. 1-2 a year We would go there after a good storm and the bottles were sticking up everywhere --all kinds. I would collect the ones with thick glass in the neck, zip em up with a wet saw and make guitar slides - fantastic sound from the thick glass!

[Gun Smith]

Pistols that have been found in privies may be, more often than not, a result of dropping your pants with the gun in a pants pocket or waistband.

[Modoc ED]

This has been a good thread Mike. Thanks for posting it.

[Mike D.]

The dropping the pants and the pistol idea has been running crazily around my head for years. Too funny. Actually, it had to be the case with coins, too. We found what was once a small leather purse in a deep Sacramento saloon privy. With it were two 1857 S 20 dollar gold double eagles. We were whooping it up like maniacs, but it wasn't over. There were FOURTEEN more of them trickling down the wall of that privy. Holy Moly! We each got five of them and flipped 'em for the last one. I lost, but I could care! Besides the coins, that privy yielded a LOT of valuable bottles. Not the best one we ever dug, but close.

[Modoc ED]

The dropping the pants and the pistol idea has been running crazily around my head for years. Too funny. Actually, it had to be the case with coins, too. We found what was once a small leather purse in a deep Sacramento saloon privy. With it were two 1857 S 20 dollar gold double eagles. We were whooping it up like maniacs, but it wasn't over. There were FOURTEEN more of them trickling down the wall of that privy. Holy Moly! We each got five of them and flipped 'em for the last one. I lost, but I could care! Besides the coins, that privy yielded a LOT of valuable bottles. Not the best one we ever dug, but close.

THAT was a lot of money back in the times it was dropped Mike. Had that been my money, I may have just had to do some "privy diving" to try to recover it.

[Mike D.]

That was our thought, Ed. $320 was quite a sum, but not considering the expense of goods during the Gold Rush. Even the waning years saw exorbitant prices, and much gold trading hands. A $20 might only purchase a shovel, or a dozen fresh eggs. Sacramento was a booming metropolis, the hub of the Central mines, and gold was the preferred currency. Until 1854, all world coinage, be it silver or gold, was legal tender in the west. The opening of the San Francisco Mint, in that year, put an end to the common exchange of foreign coins and the private mintage of gold coins. Huge amounts of CA gold was shipped to the mint and the first years' saw large mintage numbers of all denominations, hence their relative lesser value than the lower mintages of later, post Gold Rush and Civil War years. Regardless, finding such things makes for an exciting time, sort of like the 49ers hitting a good strike.

[marlinman93]

That old Colt might even clean up a bit better once it's dried out enough to carefullyy remove the excess rust and gunk. Never be shootable, but maybe clean enough to figure out what it is for sure. I love dug up guns! I've got 4 old Marlins that are all dug up guns.

[Ben_Rumson]

On a place I rented for a couple of years..I found a pit of debris dug on a side hill that I never did get to the bottom of.. It subsequently turned out (through research) that the place had originally been part of a Spanish land grant, and had been occupied since the 1700s.. The original adobe was felled in the SF 1906 earthquake...I figure they must have just pushed the wreckage over the hill into the pit.. We found all manner of BROKEN & bashed up household items.. dishes ( did they come around the horn?) oil lamps galore, coffee pots, boots, shoes, wood stove range.. even found reins and a horse harness!... But once we got past all that "new" stuff and got into the bottles and ordinary trash items the misery/fun really started..spending an hour caefully scraping out a bottle the books say is worth a bundle only to find it busted off at the neck!...Or pulling one out that was worth the good bucks! Big Fun! Then again seeing broken bottles that were very rare, while a bummer, just kept us going..Every time we jumped in that dump, the adventure would begin anew.. just a little deeper ... off to the side..never know what you might find.. what a blast! Like I said we never did get to the bottom of it or edges.. so who knows what else is down there! .... I still have a few bottles.. mostly the ones with best colors.. and a few med bottles that have humorous writing on them..

[Mike D.]

I completely understand, Ben. Believe me, I have been totally hooked for most of my life. When the snow clears we hit the mining areas of the High Sierra, too. Research has allowed us to locate claims and mill sites that haven't ben touched since the early 1870s, at the latest. Bottles and other refuse are piled under the pine and fir needles. Little rock walled "cabin" sites are located on all the ridge tops, with only a collapsed chimney evident above the century plus of forest duff. It is amazing the cool relics we come away with. Maker marked picks, steam donkey parts, hydraulic nozzles, and all kinds of amazing artifacts, most of which are WAY too heavy to bring out in our packs. These are super secret sites that belong to timber companies and we have exclusive rights to "play" on them. I missed the last pre-winter hike, where a friend found a decent 1873 Winchester leaning against a rock wall. I have yet to see it, but you can count on pics when I get up to his place. He's kind of a frugle recluse and lives on a mining claim in a ramshacle self built "house". It's dry and clean, and he has a wonderful garden that provides all sorts of vegetables. I hope to make it up there real soon.

[Ben_Rumson]

Neighbor I used to have told me one that really made me drool.. It seems when I-5 went through the outskirts of Sacramento a portion of the road cut through the old city dump.. He was telling me for a couple of bucks they'd let you go in and dig to your hearts content.. He said he hauled many a pick up load out of there loaded with old bottles while it lasted.. I believe him because when I helped him move we must have pulled 20 boxes of bottles and stuff out from under his house.. Lots of cool bottles in them.. he said those were the dregs! Did you get in on that I-5 Sacto fun?
I know what you mean too about finding the old camps & mills.. Had a great adventure one day with the BSA when I was a 12y/o in the early 60s... Scout camp was at Shaver Lake CA.. The lake was so low that all that remained was the original mill pond.. What came to light was the RR bed running to the pond.. We followed it back into the hills .. past downed trestles...we'd lose the bed a while then pick it up again.. Finally found a camp..Most of the buildings were flat.. one still had a couple of walls left... a kid found a 6ft misery whip and others found broken whet stones..other stuff I don't remember now..

[Mike D.]

I missed out on I-5 at Uncle Sam's insistence. Plenty of my friends scored in the project, though. I did plenty diggin' in what is now Old Sacramento, beginning in '60 and continuing until the mid '70s. We still dig in Sacramento on a steady basis, but not since Feb. Other towns have been calling to us, so we've been spending Saturdays elsewhere. I got a call from a foothill friend this morning who found a big Indian camp on his property and he wants to screen for points next weekend. Guess where we will be?

[coyote nose]

Mike, Colt put serial numbers on those brass parts...you may be able to read them and get even more history out of that gun.

[Hillbilly]

Just about any town back east will have old alleys. The alleys were in place to allow a honey wagon to pump privey pits when outhouses were still the rage. Of course these days those alleys in many areas have power line and other service right of ways and easments...Our town gave those alleys back to the lot owners when sewage was installed in the 1920-30 era. They opted to put all the water sewer and power out on the street.

In clay soils... digging a privey up may cause some pent up gasses to release. I'd expect to find more yuck factor in a clay pit with ground water than a pit that was dug in the high dessert out west someplace.

I never found a gun (yet) but we always find something when we dig up a old house lot... Newspapers, buttons, glass...

[Mike D.]

Mike, Colt put serial numbers on those brass parts...you may be able to read them and get even more history out of that gun.

Well, I never though of that. Thanks for waking me up, coyote nose. The brass is still clean and the numbers are probably plain as my nose. Jeez, what a dummy I am. I pulled the gun from the pit and actually thought nothing further of it. The property owner is happy with it, but he'll be just as intersted in finding out a bit of history on it, too. I'll do exactly that.