OT-What do you think of slug guns?

[Jason_W]

Lately I've been intrigued by them. The technology for rifled slug barrels and sabot slugs has come a long way in recent years. Seems like they would be hard to beat for close to medium range stopping power and now materials are available for DIY sabot slugs which could cut down on costs.

The most obvious drawback I see is that manufacturers largely turn out dedicated slug guns with 22"-24" barrels which is fine if you're sitting still, but such a long gun can be cumbersome if you're on the move in thick brush.

[Hobie]

They are no longer than my "short" flintlock musket used in such cover because it allows me to get within range. I have a smoothbore slug gun and a rifled (which I do need to get out and shoot).

[Jason_W]

They are no longer than my "short" flintlock musket used in such cover because it allows me to get within range.

I guess I'm spoiled after carrying Marlin carbines for a few seasons.

[TedH]

They're not much of a disadvantage anymore with all the new technology. I have no use for one though. The Dixie slugs do interest me, but I have no real use for them either.

[Old Ironsights]

They're not much of a disadvantage anymore with all the new technology. I have no use for one though. The Dixie slugs do interest me, but I have no real use for them either.

Biggest disadvantage is a heavy gun that is only good out to 200yds max that kicks like you were shooting a .470 NE...

But that's just me...

They have their place, but unfortunately that place is usually the result of idiotic gun control laws/hunting regs... But they are good for busting down doors.

[Modoc ED]

OI - You need to catch up on slug guns. Too lengthy to go into in a thread/post but the dedicated slug guns with 20" or so barrels are not that heavy. Certainly no more so that a Remington 700 bolt gun in say .30-06. The new rage in the deer hunting and other hunting circles that use slug guns is the 20GA slug gun.

If yer kick/recoil shy, get one of the newer style gell, recoil pads fitted to yer gun or a gell, slip on, pad for yer gun. Or just "man-up" and shoot it like it comes. The kick/recoil isn't much more than a .30-06 anyway.

I have a Remington 12GA 870 with various barrels. One of the barrels is a 20" Rifle Sighted, fully rifled barrel that will put sabot slugs into 2" groups at 100 yards all day long when using a scope and 3" to 4" groups at 100 yards with it's iron sights. Another barrel I have is also a 20" Rifle Sighted smooth bore barrel but takes screw in Remington Chokes. It too is an accurate barrel with a Modified Choke and Winchester Super X Forster type slugs.

For the fully rifled, iron sighted or scoped barrels, good accuracy and clean kills out to 225-yards to 250-yards are the norm (common) now-a-days -- not the exception.

I shot a hog last year that went about 200-pounds (undressed) with my 870 outfitted with my fully rifled slug barrel using a Remington Copper Solid Sabot Slug at about 75-yards and it literally lifted the hog off it's feet and flipped it over backwards. It completely took out the hog's shoulder, tore through the vitals and exited the other side.

Slug guns are great and are here to stay. Many guys are using them even in areas that allow rifle shooting.

[KirkD]

I had one .... a Remington 870 with rifled barrel, 12 Ga. The thing that I don't like about rifled barrels is the cost of the ammo to feed them.

As one who hunts with old Winchesters with octagon barrels, some guns of which weigh almost 10 pounds and have 28" barrels, I'd say these modern slug guns are too light ...... a fellow just doesn't get enough exercise carrying them, and the light gun kicks like a mule.

[Tycer]

I'll agree in the heavy gun/heavy recoil thing. I used sabot slugs in a M500 for several years until I got a lighter gun that shot flatter farther. The sabot slug is around 475 grains of lead and has about a 9" drop at 100 yards. You gotta shoot a bunch to know your POI at various ranges and shooting a lot at one sitting sucks for me. OO Buckshot is a joy in comparison.

[Modoc ED]

I had one .... a Remington 870 with rifled barrel, 12 Ga. The thing that I don't like about rifled barrels is the cost of the ammo to feed them.

As one who hunts with old Winchesters with octagon barrels, some guns of which weigh almost 10 pounds and have 28" barrels, I'd say these modern slug guns are too light ...... a fellow just doesn't get enough exercise carrying them, and the light gun kicks like a mule.

Kirk -

You've got that right about the cost. I've got three boxes of Remington Supreme Copper Solid Sabot Slugs (5 per box) coming from Cabela's and the cost for them was $14.99 per box. That figures out to $3.00 per shot!! Two years ago when I made my last order from Cabela's for them they were $9.75 per box of 5.

As for the recoil, I guess I'm just not that sensitive to recoil. It doesn't bother me -- at least not in the field -- but at the bench, that's another story. That's why I use a slip-on gel pad at the bench.

There was an interesting article in one of the gun-rags a month or so ago that said that the 12GA Sabot Slug matched the performance of the .45-70 out to 100-yards.

A friend of mine who lives in Alaska part time told me that many guides and outdoor service officers carry 12GA shotguns with sabot slugs for bear (all kinds) protection.

[KirkD]

After forking out the cash for saboted slugs, I decided that I will never by a rifled slug gun again. I'd rather use a muzzle loader of some description if the hunting regs only allow shotguns and muzzle loaders. Of course, I cast my own bullets and reload my own ammo for chicken feed, so paying for factory ammo, especially saboted slugs, just doesn't get me up in the morning.

[Modoc ED]

Tycer - Was that out of a smooth bore M500? You'd be amazed at the difference with a fully rifled barrel and a sabot slug.

[Bear 45/70]

Years ago a friend introduced the wife and myself to hunting in Washington's restricted firearms areas. That's shotguns, muzzle loader and revolvers only. I did the smooth bore shotgun thing and even took a deer with my pistol. But some of the areas had 100-150 yard shots so I bought the wife and NEF Tracker II, rifled barrel 20 ga. and it now has Fire Sights. I went with a Mossberg 695 bolt action, rifled and ported barrel 12 ga. with scope. Basicly a 12 ga. rifle. Both guns are very accuate at the necessary ranges and not that bad to shoot. After using the rifled barrel I will never go back to the smooth bores.

[Rusty]

Jason,
Try going to Dixieslugs.com and looking over their website. They also have a pretty good forum.

They claim that the best accuracy can be obtained from their ammo using either a Hastings barrel on a Remington shotgun or an H&R Tracker. They also have stopped some pretty ugly stuff with their rounds. When you have to have penetration a slug is the way to go.
Personally I'm becoming more and more interested in shotguns as time goes on and I love my H&R's. They are as simple and foolproof as anything can be. In fact I've been going over in my mind the last few days about how a 28 ga. would do with slugs. Brush is so thnk where we live that you'd really have to plan to get a shot over 100 yards so longrange pinpoint accuracy isn't an issue.

[Old Ironsights]

My fully rifled 26" M500 shoots quite well. I just prefer to not spend the money required to wring that potential out of it.

All other things being equal (and they really are) I would rather shoot my M92.

To get 4" accuracy with a rifled slug gun you have to buy premium ammo and accept a beating... even with a 20ga... unless you buy a big or "inirtia driven" repeater. I'd much rather roll my own for pennies - not dollars - a shot and be able to practice regularly without becomming a flinch monster.

That is why I fought so hard to get Pistol Caliber Rifles "allowed" for deer in Indiana.

I've also seen an awful lot of folks who are willing to compensate for poor shot placement with a giant slug... another pet peeve of mine.

IMO this whole "Rifled Slug Gun" thing came about specifically as a workaround to get a longer range, more accurate hunting arm where POLITICS decided that metalic cartridge rifles were bad &/or too efficient or some BS. (The Indiana slug gun regs were written back during the Pumpkin Ball Smoothie era as a method of keeping the harvest low...)

Now, there is very little that a big honkn 1oz hunk o copper or brass out of a stubby smoothie can't deal with. But as a general Hunting Arm, I'm again' it - except where forced by "law". IMO it just playes into the hands of the Antis who, as in Russia, said "a shotgun is enough"...

[AJMD429]

I've had three:

20 ga heavy breakopen I got for the kids (before leverguns were legal for deer). Shot saboted slugs into 3" at 100 yards with a 3-9x scope, but kicked and cost alot to shoot (I haven't reloaded slugs - yet).

12 ga Mossberg 500 with cantilevered scope on barrel. Also 3" groups, kicked about same, but was clankier and heavier (not bad for an adult who is careful getting into the stand with maybe a little rag stuffed under the forend handle).

12 ga Ithaca smoothbore with bead/adjustable sights. Rifled slugs gave me 3" at FIFTY yards, but the gun really is unpleasant to shoot; enough so I'll never change the sights because I don't want to re-zero it! Paid $30 for it, though...

But...since Indiana legalized leverguns for deer (short cartridges only), I can't see any advantage of the 12 or 20 gauge slug guns; the 240 grain .44 Mag bullet is the SAME BULLET my rifled shotguns usually shot, and with less recoil, and evidently about the same velocity (and no, I don't understand that in terms of 'physics' but maybe I should say 'perceived' recoil...). Leverguns work fast, although I've never had to shoot a deer more than once . They're lighter and handier and cheaper to buy factory rounds for and so at this point the only reason for a 'slug' gun would be to heave 1 oz. chunks of lead through a bedroom door if someone is kicking it in (not that the .44 Mag wouldn't do, I guess...).

[Bear 45/70]

My fully rifled 26" M500 shoots quite well. I just prefer to not spend the money required to wring that potential out of it.

All other things being equal (and they really are) I would rather shoot my M92.

To get 4" accuracy with a rifled slug gun you have to buy premium ammo and accept a beating... even with a 20ga... unless you buy a big or "inirtia driven" repeater. I'd much rather roll my own for pennies - not dollars - a shot and be able to practice regularly without becomming a flinch monster."...

I would disagree. Both our slug guns will shoot 2 MOA with just about anything you want to feed them. True the real expensive suff is better but we are talking minute od deer her, no less than 6". I just finally got the moulds to cast my on slugs last year, both 12 and 20. They will also shoot 2 MOA or less. The biggest problem is the low grade sights on a slug gun or lack of any real sights. Upgrade to Fire Sights or a scope and that disappears and the accuracy really improves. Oh, and I found the standard rifle sights on slug barrels to be poor at best.

[Jason_W]

I had one .... a Remington 870 with rifled barrel, 12 Ga. The thing that I don't like about rifled barrels is the cost of the ammo to feed them.

Check these out

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=71

I figure some .50 cal pistol bullets could be cast and I could have sabot slug loads for less than $1 a round. I'm ordering in needed materials to give it a try as I can afford them.

[Modoc ED]

Here's a book I bought some time ago while browsing at "Barnes & Nobel" in Reno, NV.

"Shotgunning for Deer" by Dave Henderson. Pretty interesting book.

OI -- You need to "man up" when it comes to recoil and shotguns!! There is absolutely no difference in recoil between a 12GA shotgun (even a 3½" Magnum) and a .444 Marlin, .45-70, or .375 Holland & Holland.

[Old Ironsights]

...OI -- You need to "man up" when it comes to recoil and shotguns!! There is absolutely no difference in recoil between a 12GA shotgun (even a 3½" Magnum) and a .444 Marlin, .45-70, or .375 Holland & Holland.

Maybe... but somehow I'm a LOT more accurate out to a LOT longer ranges with a Hot .45-70 in a light Guide Gun than I am with a 12ga shooting any of the 100yd+ 2-3/4" slugs... never mind the 3"mags.

And I still can't get past the idea of CHEAP ammo being 5/$2, much less 5/$15 or $20... (even the H&H rounds reload cheaper than that.)

I've got one, and I use it when I have to. But IMO it's a sad second best. And like I said - I had to fight some UGLY battles with the FUDDs who are still more than happy to see every other gun run through the crusher... since a shotgun "can do everything"...

It was a hard won and ugly fight and I still have issues with Fudds & Slug Guns because of it.

[Bigahh]

I have a Deer/Turkey combo Remington 870 with a smooth bore slug barrel. It shoots well to about 100 yards, and very well at 50-75. It is a law in parts of my state to use shotgun/muzzle loader only for deer, and as someone stated above the saboted slugs are over priced in my mind. I use the old standby slugs, and if I need the gun it works fine. I use it for Turkeys also, and it works well as my home defense shotgun with that short barrel. My wife shoots it on occasion at pop cans on a stump with some light 7/8 ounce loads I made up so she knows how to use the gun just in case she ever has to in an emergency.

[tman]

if i ever get a few extra bucks together, i'm gonna take my 1887 repro, have the barrel cut back to 18", and install a rifled choke tube. this guns short and light to begin with. my modifications would make it the cat's butt!

[Bear 45/70]

I had one .... a Remington 870 with rifled barrel, 12 Ga. The thing that I don't like about rifled barrels is the cost of the ammo to feed them.

Check these out

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=71

I figure some .50 cal pistol bullets could be cast and I could have sabot slug loads for less than $1 a round. I'm ordering in needed materials to give it a try as I can afford them.

Lee makes shotgun slug moulds and those slugs use standard wads, so they are cheap to use. They work good for me at least in my rifled barrels.

[Tycer]

Tycer - Was that out of a smooth bore M500? You'd be amazed at the difference with a fully rifled barrel and a sabot slug.

No. I have several barrels, 18" with a Herters compensator, 24" rifled, muzzleloader, 28" and 30" screw-in chokes.

I can do 3" groups with Fiocchi Sabot and 4" with WinX Sabot. It's still a 9" drop at 100 though.

I have shot thousands of rounds from that old gun. It's actually my first gun and it's a Western Field 550 from Mongomery Wards.

[Modoc ED]

Well, no matter the likes or dislikes of slug guns I can tell you from my own experience that they make one heck of a "Hog Gun".

I was using Remington's Copper Solids long before any lead bans but since the CA lead ban in some parts of CA, the Remington Copper Solids are the way to go for a heavy, lead free, caliber, gun.

[iceman]

I have been looking for a used 12 ga pump lately. I found a Winchester 1200 with a 28 " winchoke barrel and a 20" slug barrel (smooth bore) for $400 Canadian (about $325 us). If it is still there next week I might pick it up. A Rem 870 Express runs about 350 canadian here. The extra barrel might be handy on a wet dirty day in a cedar swamp looking for deer.

[Travis Morgan]

But...since Indiana legalized leverguns for deer (short cartridges only

Time to get a .45-90!

[Pete44ru]

Slug guns are as handy as hell, and can be hell on wheels - like the 5 1/4 lb, 38" long H&R/NEF Tracker II 12ga, with a fully-rifled 24" bbl.

http://www.thegunsource.com/DisplayPic.aspx?PIC=30145

.

[madman4570]

Hunting both states(Pa/Ny) I have to say for woods hunting
the slug guns are fantastic.I have a 1972 Ithaca Deerslayer deluxe(I bought new back then) with the 20" smoothbore.It shoots the Winchester superX power points extremely well.440gr@1700fps (Super fast/ quick pointing gun)Raybar sights coated with lime green archery glow paint.awesome in the deep hemlocks.

I have taken aprox 46 deer with it so far.I did buy the Hastings rifled
barrel for it and it shoots the winchester supremes very good also.
(385gr nosler Partitions @1900fps)
The older Ithacas smoothbores were really tapered and I am telling
you they will, at least mine shoots the rifled slugs out to 100yds
deadly.
I still use it or my 45-70 and leave the other high power rifles in the
gun safe when its deer hunting time
Works for me!!!!!!!!.

[CEMENTHEAD]

I think I love Slug guns. What's not to love, short, light, handy, .72 caliber repeating "rifles" that fling an ounce (or more) projectile out at 14-1700FPS. Out to 100 yards I see few, better options when you need some "horsepower". (Excepting the over .35 caliber leverguns of course) My own slug guns are a Remington 11-87 21"smoothbore and an 870 20" rifled. Both of these will stay under 3.5" at 100 yards, 3 shots with Brenneke 3" Black Magic slugs, when I do my part. My .02$, hope it helps. Thanks, Tom

[GonnePhishin]

Jason,

Bye the way, Nice web site.

[Jason_W]

Jason,

Bye the way, Nice web site.

Thanks

[Hobie]

If you've read about the early 20-bore rifles you might get a rush from the modern version. Really, they are just updating old ideas but it is cool. As a tool, the shotgun can be very versatile although it would be nicer if one is restricted due to economic circumstances rather than by law. Been there, in both circumstances.

[t.r.]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/ ... 1238592856

This Pennsylvania young doe was literally knocked down by a slug. Hornady spire tipped bullet encased within a plastic (nylon?) sabot. I often hunt in Bucks County with an old USAF buddy who has land there. It's a shotgun-only zone with unlimited doe permits. A scope sighted shotgun with rifled bore is NOT a handicap at all.

TR

[Old Time Hunter]

I thought slugs were used to fish with, now you can hunt with them too?

[Bear 45/70]

if i ever get a few extra bucks together, i'm gonna take my 1887 repro, have the barrel cut back to 18", and install a rifled choke tube. this guns short and light to begin with. my modifications would make it the cat's butt!

Why get a long one and cut it? Norinco makes a 1887 Coachgun model with 18" cylinder bore barrels but the OD on the barrels is .827" which is thick enough to do the choke thing to.

http://www.colonialarms.com/

[Bear 45/70]

I thought slugs were used to fish with, now you can hunt with them too?

Slugs are a garden pest!

[tman]

if i ever get a few extra bucks together, i'm gonna take my 1887 repro, have the barrel cut back to 18", and install a rifled choke tube. this guns short and light to begin with. my modifications would make it the cat's butt!

Why get a long one and cut it? Norinco makes a 1887 Coachgun model with 18" cylinder bore barrels but the OD on the barrels is .827" which is thick enough to do the choke thing to.

http://www.colonialarms.com/

bear, it's a 20" repro to start with. i already own it. since i'm someday gonna get the tube installed, i'd thought i might as well get it cut down to aide in handling. i'd probably go with remington tubes since i already own an 870 with choke tubes

[Bear 45/70]

if i ever get a few extra bucks together, i'm gonna take my 1887 repro, have the barrel cut back to 18", and install a rifled choke tube. this guns short and light to begin with. my modifications would make it the cat's butt!

Why get a long one and cut it? Norinco makes a 1887 Coachgun model with 18" cylinder bore barrels but the OD on the barrels is .827" which is thick enough to do the choke thing to.

http://www.colonialarms.com/

bear, it's a 20" repro to start with. i already own it. since i'm someday gonna get the tube installed, i'd thought i might as well get it cut down to aide in handling. i'd probably go with remington tubes since i already own an 870 with choke tubes

You're right. I just measured mine and it has 20" barrels. I'm keeping it as is for home defense, with #4 buck in it and I have been considering trying SASS. I already did the 18" with choke thing with a Baikal Coachgun but I had a pair of 45/70 barrel inserts for it.