OT - Browning Hi-Power thoughts -

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:11 pm

My Brother and I were discussing Hi-Powers and the pros and cons. I'm of the school that if I were to own one, it would be a pre WWII version, with the tangent sight and the butt stock option. any thoughts on Inglis vs Belgian, vs ...., over the years they transitioned from internal to external ejectors - any thoughts there? anyone own one? What are your thoughts of the older design vs newer, the Hi-Power vs more modern firearms etc?

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:23 pm

I DO BELIEVE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS WRONG. THE OLDER BR.HP'S ARE OKAY TO LOOK AT AND SHOOT WITH REGULAR 9MM AMMO BUT THEY WERE BUILT TO SOFT STANDARDS AND MODERN 9MM+P LOADS CAN BEND THE SLIDE SLICK AS YOU PLEASE INTO A SWAYBACK. I HAVE DONE THIS !!! IF YOU WANT TO SHOOT A BR.HP BUY THE MODERN ONES MARKED MKII [ OR MKIII ] MADE IN PORTUGAL. THE HEAT TREAT WAS CHANGED TO HANDLE MODERN AMMO AND QUITE FRANKLY THEY'RE BETTER MADE THAN THE OLDER ONES.
REMEMBER, THE BR.HP ALWAYS HAS AN ALMOST SKELETINIZED FRAME AND IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE WITH THE MODERN HEAT TREAT YOU WILL BE IN FOR A BIG SURPRISE DOWN THE ROAD A PIECE.
SAVE THE PRE-WAR, INGLIS ETC ETC AND OTHER EARLY GUNS FOR THE COLLECTORS OF SUCH ARTIFACTS. FURTHERMORE, I'VE HAD SEVERAL WITH THE TANGENT SIGHTS AND THOSE WERE A SINGULAR PAIN -IN-THE- *** ALSO, PARTICULARLY IF THEY HAD THE INVERTED V FRONT SIGHT. I'LL TAKE A MODERN MADE BR.HP WITH THEIR MODERN SIGHTS TOO. IF I WANT ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS I WILL ADD THEM LATER.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:35 pm

I have one of the Hungarian clones, tricked out.
Great gun, John Browning design, will keep it and stay away from the wondernines.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:38 pm

I think Terry is, as usual, correct (and glad to see he posted). A MK III is what I got and it has the benefit of being found for less money!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:57 pm

I guess i am an old school guy --- and if i were to get a hi-cap 9 mil., it would definitely be a HP. Heck, the design is almost as old as the 1911

JB · Post by JB » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:18 pm

I have Nazi marked FN's and Inglis in my collection, but pick a newer one for regular shooting. I have an FEG copy as well that's a pretty decent gun for the money.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:32 pm

I have one made in 1980 (Made in Belgium assembled in Portugal) and I shoot pretty stout 147gr ball ammo out of it with no issues or problems since I bought it.

A friend of mine who lives in San Diego, CA has a Browning High-Power made by Inglis and all the markings on it (proof, cliber, etc.) are in Chinese. It was picked up on the field in Viet Nam.

Something to remember -- The 9mm ammo that we use here in the states is somewhat milder than the European 9mm ammo. Several people knock the 9mm but I'd bet if you asked all those killed by a 9mm round, they'd tell you the 9mm was plenty enough to get the job done.

I agree with Terry to some extent and I'm certain that some of the issues he brought up are valid but I think Terry was just a bit too harsh on the Browning HI-Power.

Just my .02¢

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:37 pm

Mike,

Mr. Murbach nailed it.

At one time I had about two dozen Hi Powers: Belgian, Canadian, Argentine, etc.
Great pistols and just fit my hands perfectly. Got tired of them sitting around and sold all of them for a couple Winchesters.
For a everyday shooter get one of the newer MKIIIs you won't be dissapointed. That's the one I wish I'd kept.

jb

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:06 pm

The Brit SAS love them!
I never did get a try before the ban but somehow they do look rite to me.

Nath.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:52 pm

I read that the older HP's had forged frames, which was claimed to somehow contribute to the warping issue. Newer ones have cast frames, and apparently no warping problems. Terry's explanation makes more sense though.
My HP is a Mark III, 9mm FN model, with the SFS (Safety Fast Shooting) kit http://www.cylinder-slide.com/sfsarticle.shtml This unique and really cool safety was designed and manufactured by FN, but is also sold by Cylinder and Slide gunsmiths. It's also available for the 1911.
The ergonomics of the HiPower are very comfortable, and the pistol points naturally for me, much like the 1911. Recoil of the 9mm cartridge is negligable in this pistol.
A side note: the ambidextrous safety and the slide release for the SFS are extended, and are a huge improvement over standard HP controls.
Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBmNkz12S_0
More info here: http://hipowertalk.com/forum/default.asp
And here: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HiPowerComments.html

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:08 pm

I FORGOT TO MENTION ONE OF THE NICEST "BR.HP" PISTOLS I EVER HAD WAS A MAUSER. IT WAS A MODERN MADE PISTOL OF EXQUISITE QUALITY, BEAUTIFULLY FIT AND FINISHED. IT SHOT LIKE A MILLION BUCKS EVEN THOUGH THE TRIGGER PULL WAS AKIN TO KICK STARTING A HARLEY TO MAKE IT GO "BANG." IF MEMORY SERVES I FINALLY TOOK OUT THE MAG SAFETY WHICH GREATLY IMPROVED THE TRIGGER PULL. I WAS GONNA KEEP IT BUT WAYNE NOVAK , THE PISTOLSMITH OVER IN WEST BY GOD VIRGINIA HEARD ABOUT IT, CALLED ME UP, AND TALKED ME OUT OF IT FOR HIS BR.HP COLLECTION. I CANNOT REMEMBER IF I TOLD HIM AT THE TIME BUT ALSO STAMPED ON THAT BEAUTIFUL PISTOL IN AN OUT-OF-THE-WAY PLACE WERE THE TINIEST OF LETTERS, feg [ IN CAPITALS THOUGH ]. YEP, THAT GORGEOUS HP WAS MADE IN HUNGARY BY THE REMNANTS OF THE COMMUNISTS WHO OBVIOUSLY HAD NOT FORGOTTEN HOW TO MAKE QUALITY GUNS.
ABOUT TEN OR TWELVE YEARS AGO I MET AN SAS TROOPER AND WE HAD A JOLLY GOOD GAB ABOUT GUNS , THE BR.HP IN PARTICULAR. THIS FELLOW HAD ONE OF THOSE FUNNY ENGLISH ACCENTS [ COCKNEY...? ] AND SOMETIMES I HAD A HELL OF A TIME UNDERSTANDING THE WORDS THAT WEREN'T SWEAR WORDS. HE SWORE MAGNIFICENTLY TOO !!! " WE HAD DRAWERS FULLA THOSE "F....OOOIN BROONING SLIDES" ALL BENT TO SWAYBACK 'ELL AND GONE...." ETC ETC ETC. LOL !!! IF MEMORY SERVES [ AND I CANNOT REMEMBER WHAT THE 'ELL I HAD FOR BREAKFAST THIS MORNING ] HE ALSO NOTED THAT THE BROWNING COMPANY TIGHTENED UP THE HEAT TREAT ON THE HP PISTOLS IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO THE PROBLEMS THE SAS HAD EXPERIENCED.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:09 pm

Way back when I used an Inglis made Hi Power. I was enamored by the high capacity magazine. Events unfoled that convinced me to go back to the 1911. Remember, I could only use the available ammo, and it was all FMJ. It was reliable, and if you can find one that cycles reliably with some of today's better JHP's it should suffice for just about any purpose it was designed for.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:15 pm

Nath wrote:The Brit SAS love them!
I never did get a try before the ban but somehow they do look rite to me.

Nath.

Hey Nath, just a little jab (good heartedly) here, but the British military has a tendancy to use a firearms design well past it's expiration date (think Enfield rifle). Good design, but outdated after WW I. Not that we Americans would have done anything like that. Oh wait, we're still using an AR design rifle that was less than well concieved about 50 years ago.

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:57 pm

I own a 79 or 80's HP made in Belguim, assembled in Portugal, it fits my hand great, points well and never has failed to fire and chamber a round. I would buy another one except they jumped in price! A little big to carry conceled but I love them.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:36 pm

I have an mismatched Inglis Hi-Power with tangent sight and slotted grip frame. It wasn't very reliable until I got a new Mec-Gar magazine and now it works just fine. You can't beat the feel of a Hi-Power in your hand but the safety is harder for me to use than a 1911. The trigger geometry is pretty Rube Goldberg- the trigger moving a bar that moves something else that finally moves the sear. I own the Hi-Power and a 1911A1. In a sticky situation, I'd prefer the 1911. Fewer rounds but more powerful. Using the rim of a cartridge to remove the grip panels and the point of a .223 or .308 round to push out the mainspring housing pin, the 1911A1 can be taken completely down for maintenance. With a Hi-Power you can just field strip it, squirt oil on it and hope for the best. I use my Hi-Power for rattlesnakes, using Speer snakeshot.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:41 pm

I have a 80's HP in 40 S&W. it is one of the best ot the Modern 1911 types I have ever owned.

It was JB's last design before he died.

Forget the 9mm, get it in 40S&W.

When I got my HP-40 I sold my 1911-45's.

It fits my hand where the 1911 did not. I also have the Ceiner 22LR conversion for the piece.

silverbuzzard · Post by **silverbuzzard** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:37 pm

I carried one in the late 70s as a second gun when I was with the Sheriffs dept here. Great gun. Had it loaded with ball and figured it would punch holes in cars etc if needed.
Got in a head on with 2 perps @ 3am , we was raiding a chop shop. Dang pistol flew out of my waistband [ no holster] and went up under the firewall/dashboard. ! I got busted up bad with leg and back breaks but wasn't gonna leave my honey. Took me 5 minutes to find out where it was.
We used to go to a local junk yard and shoot up cars and auto glass. That ball ammo did a decent job outa that Hi power , figured I was well served , least till I could get a mini into play.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:45 pm

I have one of those Hungarian ones, it's nice.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:49 pm

I like my Glock. I enjoy my 1911. I LOVE my BHP!

I have one of the SFS models like homefront posted.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:19 pm

I used to have a fancy Browning two tone finished combat model with ambi-safety, commander hammer, and adjustible sights. It was a fine gun, and I shot IDPA competition with it, some, in the Enhanced Class. I removed the silly magazine safety which improved the trigger pull, a bunch. However, I did notice that my HighPower, needed to be kept cleaner then my 1911's to be 100% reliable, and I also noticed while serving as range officer, when it was my turn that, the boys with the 9mm Highpowers had more jams then any other gun, that I witnessed used in IDPA competition.

I had some problems with mine, also, during one cold night shoot, but I had been shooting it, quite a bit, and it wasn't that clean. I finally sold it to a friend, and I think he still has it. One of the reason's I sold it was that IMHO, it needed a dehorning job, and I didn't want to spend the money on it, to get it right.

I later purchased a very nice FN HighPower in 40 cal. This gun has been customized, right. The previous owner had sent it off to Cylinder and Slide, where it was dehorned, had some reliability work preformed, and the magazine safety was removed, and the slide spring was replaced with a heavier one, and the hammer spring was replaced with a lighter one. Which is one of the main bitches I have with any Highpower, they have way to heavy a hammer spring, and too light a slide spring, which makes them less reliable, IMHO. This gun is not going anywhere, it's a keeper.

However, regarding a stock Browning HighPower with the stock springs, magazine disconect in place, and no dehorning work done, personally, I have no use for one, and will take a stock 1911 instead, any day.

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:47 pm

I'm not sure of the year but sometime after WWII(could have been in the 50's or 60's) they went from the internal extractor to an external extractor due to reliability issues. I did not read every post in detail here so s/one may have mentioned it. There were some made a few yrs ago with the tangent sight. Try to find one of those if you like that set up. They won't be cheap, though!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:48 pm

I have one of the Hungarian ones as well, and it works like a charm - plus it was almost 1/3rd the price of a Browning! I also have a "Commander" length one made in Argentina, and it is the cat's meow. Small enough for concealed carry - it is my favorite hi-cap 9mm by far.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:00 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:I have one of the Hungarian ones as well, and it works like a charm - plus it was almost 1/3rd the price of a Browning! I also have a "Commander" length one made in Argentina, and it is the cat's meow. Small enough for concealed carry - it is my favorite hi-cap 9mm by far.

Wow! I never knew they made a commander length version. I can see why it would be your favorite. Nice grips, too.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:05 pm

Esmeralda's ("Exotic Grips By Esmeralda"; http://www.esmeralda.cc/) - I highly recommend her work! Tycer bought a pair right after I did - I'm sure he'll agree!

Chris83716 · Post by **Chris83716** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:20 pm

I have one of the Argentine military copies that I like really well. Heavy rubber grips and cheesy black kylon type finish; uglier then sin but nice to shoot. Anyone know what the load is that the sights are regulated for? I’ve tried several 124gr loads but they have all shot low. I was hesitant to up the velocity to p+ levels as I was unsure about the heat treat and durability of these guns.

Thanks,

Chris

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:50 pm

Of all the pistols Ive used the P35 out shines them all, used one for a tour in RVN and used 9mm smg ammo (black tip) in it as I didnt want to carry 2 kinds of 9mm ammo it didnt crack , bend or break any parts you cant go wrong with a HP cant say that about the S&W's I saw . danny

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:51 pm

+1 Danny,
Mine stays with me to the end.
Wish I could do the photo thing.

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:30 am

I also removed the safety trigger disconnect, makes for a mcuh nicer trigger pull.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:37 pm

mescalero1 wrote:+1 Danny,
Mine stays with me to the end.
Wish I could do the photo thing.

E-mail me!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:39 pm

Chris83716 wrote:I have one of the Argentine military copies that I like really well. Heavy rubber grips and cheesy black kylon type finish; uglier then sin but nice to shoot. Anyone know what the load is that the sights are regulated for? I’ve tried several 124gr loads but they have all shot low. I was hesitant to up the velocity to p+ levels as I was unsure about the heat treat and durability of these guns.

Thanks,

Chris

Try some 147 grain rounds loaded moderately. IIRC, these worked for me!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:59 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:I have one of the Hungarian ones as well, and it works like a charm - plus it was almost 1/3rd the price of a Browning! I also have a "Commander" length one made in Argentina, and it is the cat's meow. Small enough for concealed carry - it is my favorite hi-cap 9mm by far.

Ah yes, the M95 Detective. I've though off and on about getting one of those top-ends. Funds and interest never seem to coincide though...

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:02 pm

awp101 wrote: Ah yes, the M95 Detective. I've though off nad on about getting one of those top-ends. Funds and interest never seem to coincide though...

Funds versus interest or opportunity is always an issue with me!

What is a "though off nad" anyway?

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:What is a "though off nad" anyway?

What is it? It's about par for the course for me this time of night...

Wow, YK of all people is proofreading my posts....

BTW YK, do you know the story behind the Argie BHPs?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:14 pm

awp101 wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:What is a "though off nad" anyway?
What is it? It's about par for the course for me this time of night...

Wow, YK of all people is proofreading my posts....

BTW YK, do you know the story behind the Argie BHPs?

"Proofreading" would require some ability to spell - of which I have none!

Nope, not familiar with the story of the Argie's. Can you share?

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:17 pm

Leave YK alone, I think he is going to post pics of my Hungarian for me, at least I hope he does

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:29 pm

I can't find my source right now but as I recall, the Argies had a license from Browning to manufacture the BHP. When that ran out (or was cancelled) they decided they needed more so they kept producing them under the FMAP (IIRC) name, hoping Browning wouldn't notice. They eventually produced the shorter "Detective" model but AFAIK those were only for commercial production and I don't believe any of the full size that have been imported were surplused military items.

mescalero, a blonde Hungarian?

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:39 pm

How did you know?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:45 am

mescalero1 wrote:Leave YK alone, I think he is going to post pics of my Hungarian for me, at least I hope he does

Sorry for the delay - had to go to bed, and with the time difference, you have a few hours on me! Still, with this darn cough, good sleep has not been had for a week!

Here's mescalero1's BHP clone:

Sweet!

Are those the original sights? Mine doesn't sport target sights!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:58 am

Aftermarket, but it sure helps 56 year old eyes.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:25 pm

I will admit to being a HP fan of long standing. No other pistol feels as "right" in my hand as does the HP. However, I just couldn't seem to hold on to one for long. In 2004 I decided to change that, and bought a brand spanking new Browning HP. I chose the model with the adjustable rear sight buried in the rear of the slide. This pistol is truly wonderful and a delight to shoot and own. I shall not part with this one.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:32 pm

Nath wrote:The Brit SAS love them!
I never did get a try before the ban but somehow they do look rite to me.

Nath.

They are the standard issue sidearm for the British, Canadian and Australian Armed Forces. The British SBS and SAS recently adopted the Sig Sauer P226, however, I can imagine the SAS allowing some degree of preference.