Ammo price. Who buy's it?

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sun May 10, 2009 3:50 pm

Like most of you, I get the monthly rags from Midway, Midsouth etc etc. I don't buy much, if anything from them most months, and certainly not their ammo. Actually, I have never purchased any ammo since I started shooting 20 plus tears ago, with the exception being 22llr by the brick, and millsurp when the price was reasonable.
Taking a look at a recent rag from midway I looked at the price for 44mag, which is $27.99 for 20 rounds of 250gr supreme platinum tip hollow point. Winchester 308 supreme at $39.99 per 20. 375 winchester at $40.99 per 20.
Nosler rifle ammo is between $2 -$3 per round.
Hornady is over a buck per round for rifle ammo.
If you want to play, you gotta pay.
My question is this. Do you or anyone that you know actually buy this stuff? I dont know of anyone that does, and I don't see it used at the range.
Are the ammo manufacturers cutting their own throats, and killing the hobby-sport?
I used to ask the same question of property in the area in whick I live. Who can afford all these $800,000 dollar homes? We now know the answer. Not many or nobody.
What do you guys think ?

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sun May 10, 2009 3:53 pm

I do not recall buying centerfire ammo in the last 25 years and maybe longer, and I shoot thousands of rounds a year. I run through an average of 5000 rounds a year of .22 LR and most of that from Wallyworld. I cannot imagine anyone doing any factory ammo centerfire shooting with todays centerfire ammo prices being what they are.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun May 10, 2009 3:55 pm

I certainly don't buy it. I only have one friend that does. He buys the good stuff for his 300 Win Mag and 300 Ultra. Of course he only shoots a few rounds a year. A box will last him two or three years hunting. He doesn't believe in "wasting ammo" to just go out shooting for fun. He says when he was a kid his father would send him out with a 22 rifle and five cartridges, and he'd better bring home six squirrels.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sun May 10, 2009 4:33 pm

I don't know who can afford to shoot the stuff either.

I saw some 41 Magnum at $27.99 per 20 - which works out to almost
$70 for a box of 50. I think I reloaded my last box of 50 for something
around $6. I simply couldn't afford to shoot at their prices.

I know metal prices went up a coupla years back with the all of the
speculative madness, but that stuff's gotta be coming out of the pipeline
by now. Even still - $27.99 per box of 20?! For a pistol caliber?!

How do they justify these prices?

"Are the ammo manufacturers cutting their own throats, and killing the hobby-sport?"

I dunno, Flatnose - or are other forces at work here to help destroy it? I can
see that the current run on gun stuff could leave the manufacturers with backorders.
Whay haven't they caught up yet? Is the demand still THAT heavy? Are they reluctant
to expand in the current economy because they'll be left with excess capacity when
this unprecedented run on ammo cools off? Is Uncle Sam buying enough to ensure a
shortage in the regular citizen's market in order to try and price the average Joe
out of shooting? A combination of all of these factors?

-Stretch

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sun May 10, 2009 4:38 pm

If people would just stop paying the outrageous prices, the whole "ammo shortage" and "primer shortage" and overpricing scene would be over and back to normal in 60 days. People cant walk on you unless you lay down on the ground for them.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun May 10, 2009 4:43 pm

I've never purchased loaded ammo from any mail order or on line site. I used to keep a box of factory ammo around for each caliber I shoot. But that has come to an abrupt stop. The prices of this stuff has gone beyond my purchase point. I'll load my own center fires and buy .22 rim fires from now on.

Joe

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:14 pm

I haven't purchased anything I could reload for some time. Did pick up some PMC .40-65 ammo when Track of the Wolf had it for $10 a box. Can't pass up a deal like that!
I've bought a lot of reloading supplies for the last 35 years, but not much brass, just primers, powder, and molds to cast. Used to buy a lot of reloading supplies at gun shows, or from friends who were weeding out, but that all seems to be drying up with recent demands on reloading supplies.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:48 pm

Gentleman,
We have to stop ascribing enough intellect to the " government " to be capable of driving up the prices of ammo, there is simply not enough intellect there; and the way they like to talk, someone would have spilled the beans by now.
It is simply a bunch of Yuppies, realizing what they have done, now paniking and trying to assure they " have thiers ", after years of being woefully unprepared.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:50 pm

I can't tell you how many people I've sold ammo to including enough ammo that merely reloading the brass from that one purchase one time would pay for their reloading equipment. It is amazing to me.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:20 pm

So Hobie,
I take that to mean that I am right, these are first timers, afraid they got in the game to late?

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:32 pm

Hobie,
is the $30 to $60per box of 20 stuff selling, and in any great demand?

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:48 pm

Not at the current prices.

My last purchase of factory aside from 22lr was 9mm . I believe I paid about $250 for 6 cases a few years ago. It's the only reason I don't reload for it; too cheap to bother with. And I've still got more than 75% left.

I did buy some factory Magtech 357mag from MidwayUSA. It was 50rd boxes for $9.00. I bought 10 boxes an still have them.

I'm thinking at the current prices I could sell all my ammo and and have enough to buy a couple of new levers. I've been wanting a nice Trapper in 45colt.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:28 pm

I have personally witnessed many large buys of ammo. One guy bought $800 worth at Millers gun Shop last week. My buddy Tom at Targetmaster is selling 3 to 4 PALLETS of ammo a week at his store. Good, I'm glad to hear the gun people are doing great business. The more money in our industry's pocket, the more money we have to fight the lefties.---and the less money there is to spend on Hollywood movies and peep shows.------------Sixgun

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:50 pm

mescalero1 wrote:So Hobie,
I take that to mean that I am right, these are first timers, afraid they got in the game to late?

Nope. I've been in the game for some time and a couple of years ago saw this coming down the line. So did Hobie. That's why instead of buying 3 to 6-months worth of reloading supplies at a time as I used to, I have been purchasing 3-to 6-years worth of reloading supplies at a time. Now you can call that panic-buying, hoarding, or whatever you like but I call it smart buying.

If I see factory loaded ammo at a reasonalbe price, I'll pick up a box or two or maybe three or five.

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sun May 10, 2009 9:20 pm

TedH wrote:I certainly don't buy it. I only have one friend that does. He buys the good stuff for his 300 Win Mag and 300 Ultra. Of course he only shoots a few rounds a year. A box will last him two or three years hunting. He doesn't believe in "wasting ammo" to just go out shooting for fun. He says when he was a kid his father would send him out with a 22 rifle and five cartridges, and he'd better bring home six squirrels.

bogie

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun May 10, 2009 9:41 pm

Life often goes in a circle. When I first starting shooting a lot of centerfire stuff I immediately got into reloading. Hard to do a lot of shooting when you are a teen, making minimum wage (back then $2.75/hour), and buying factory ammo - especially for the mighty .44 Magnum. Reloading was the only way I could afford to shoot. Bricks of .22's were about $10. Years later, many years into my career, bricks of .22's were still about $10 on sale, and I bought a bunch. Glad I started stocking up early. Got to the point where it was easier and almost cheaper to go ahead and buy factory 9mm's or .38's rather than reload them. I reloaded then just for the enjoyment of doing so. Fast forward to today, and I'm glad I kept all my brass, and stocked up on powder. Need more primers and bullets though. The circle has come around again, and one has to reload to afford to shoot.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Sun May 10, 2009 9:55 pm

How about Winchester Silver Tips in 170 Gr. 30-30 @ 3 boxes for 17.99, no limit. That was a smidge less than 6 bucks a box, and I cobbled on to many ---many of them. Back about 15 years now. .22 LR for 6 bucks a brick, 45-70's for 14.99. If I didn't drive a truck 90 hours a week for 30 years I probably would have been loading ammo, but it helps to sleep a little so I bought factory ammo. No guilty feelings about it, I still have a pile. Glad those 20 dollar 30-30's didn't exist when I was interested.

shawn45 · Post by **shawn45** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:28 am

I buy lots of 22 lr and mags, but I have revolvers and rifles that I have had some of them for 25 years that have never had a round of store bought ammo fired from them. My son's rifles have never had a round of factory ammo shot out of them. I just refuse to pay the old prices for ammo and I wont be buying any of the new high priced stuff.
I do buy some of the shotgun shells we use but I had to buy a loader for Sammies 410 so we could afford to shoot it.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:48 am

mescalero1 wrote:So Hobie,
I take that to mean that I am right, these are first timers, afraid they got in the game to late?

I'll try to post this again...

The first timers seem more attuned to the tax increase and control concerns. Current shooters seem more worried they won't be able to get ammo for a particular hunting season. Current reloaders are MOSTLY trying to load for the current season because they didn't plan ahead. THAT surprises me because as a reloader, one of the biggest reasons to reload was to get ammo when it wasn't to be had. Heck I started reloading the 7.65x53mm Argentine in NORMA cases. It seems a no-brainer that you would build up a supply to last at least through the one presidential term.

We don't mark up too much so high prices on any particular box indicates higher cost to us, NOT an attempt to get what the market will pay. Still, prices shock some people (unless they've been to one of our nearby competitors). Many old shooters haven't bought ammo for 2 years! I started "hoarding" 2 years ago.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:58 am

I buy stuff when i see it at a decent price , or if i can justify it because it adds to my brass stockpile too. Federal and Remington both marketed generic SP hunting ammo for "regular" cartridges like 30-30, .243, .270 and the like for perhaps 13 or 14 bucks a box. I have also purchased some of the Leverevolution rounds before the components became available.

I have also bought .223 in bulk quantities, as reloading components are harder to come by for those now unless you already had a stash -- which i didn't. But those average around 8-9 bucks a box.

My .300 Weatherby and 45-70 likely wont see a factory loaded round, due to the prices of the factory loads.

I recently joined the 1911 circle, and had no .45 ACP brass at the time, so i picked up a few boxes of that ---as well, i have to make sure they run on factory ammo before i start messing with handloading for them --- but i have looked around and paid no more than 21dollars for a box of 50 FMJ's.

I have probably blown through 2 grand on ammo and reloading supplies combined in the past 6 months -- maybe a little more if i really sat down with the calculator, but , i look at it this way, a firearm is nothing more than a pretty club without anything to feed them.

My goal is to have plenty of loaded ammo , either factory or reloads, for the "fun guns" (semi-autos and pistols), plus at least 50-100 rounds apiece for the hunting rifles ---- 100 rounds of .270 or .300 mag is likely a lifetime supply for me. .30-.30 would take a bit more, as i consider my 30-30's to be double duty - fun guns and sporting firearms at the same time

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:00 am

Sixgun wrote:The more money in our industry's pocket, the more money we have to fight the lefties.---and the less money there is to spend on Hollywood movies and peep shows.------------Sixgun

I've never been too impressed with the gun 'industry' as a pro-gun engine; they certainly seem to cave to the regulators whenever convenience or government contracts make it attractive, or even if they can engineer the regulation to selectively encumber their competitors...

Post by **Hobie** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:04 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Sixgun wrote:The more money in our industry's pocket, the more money we have to fight the lefties.---and the less money there is to spend on Hollywood movies and peep shows.------------Sixgun
I've never been too impressed with the gun 'industry' as a pro-gun engine; they certainly seem to cave to the regulators whenever convenience or government contracts make it attractive, or even if they can engineer the regulation to selectively encumber their competitors...

Dittos. "They" have often taken the self-serving route. That said, I am VERY glad for every additional billion rounds of ammo in the hands of private citizens.

shawn45 · Post by **shawn45** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:42 am

I have been reloading for 30 years because it was the only way I could afford to shoot, now it is the only what I can afford to let the wife and kids shoot(they can shoot a lot), I cast my own bullets, make my own 50/50 bullet lube, use military surplus powder and have enough primers to last a normal person a lifetime, I just what till the price is right and buy. I won't ever run out, barring a fire or gooburment confiscation.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:33 am

It's sort of like the oil/gasoline bubble we had last year. When demand skyrockets and prices along with it, there is no incentive for the manufacturer to increase production. Why purchase new equipment and facilities at millions of dollars when everything your current machinery churns out is scooped up immediately and at an inflated price? All bubbles eventually burst, however.

Since we're currently in a borderline economic depression, I can't help but wonder where some people are getting enough cash on hand to buy ammo and reloading components in extreme bulk, not to mention now inflated prices on military style hi-cap firearms. Sure, a portion of them could simply have a savings they are cutting into, but given the almost universal American tendency to spend money we don't have, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of credit cards were being maxed out.

My prediction is that within the next year, creditors will come calling and the market will be flooded with "like new" used firearms and a lot of unopened boxes of ammo and components that people are desperate to resell.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:47 am

Jason_W wrote:My prediction is that within the next year, creditors will come calling and the market will be flooded with "like new" used firearms and a lot of unopened boxes of ammo and components that people are desperate to resell.

That would be a pretty cool deal for those of us that are ready for a bargain ! I don't have much use for an AK variant and 2000 rounds of 7.62-39 in an oversized Spam can though, and thats what most people in my area seem to be hoarding. When i was picking up my baby 1911 at the gun store a few days ago, i observed a younger gentleman putting a $300 Saiga in layaway (an AK style rifle)

I hate to sound elitist, but if you dont have 300 bucks, ya probably shouldnt buy a new rifle --- A $2500 Sharps, rolling block, or even an uber-expensive AR in layaway i can understand a little more

but at least he didnt use a credit card

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:52 am

I'm actually trying to sell a gun so I can afford to reload for my other guns this year. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only gun not in demand right now.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:43 am

A lot of it is for convenience sake, most people are busy and don't have much time to shoot let alone reload. Also some are afraid to take on something that seems complicated and time consuming. When I got started I was going to just shoot .357 and I tried all the brands, then bought a case of the most accurate stuff.

By the time that case was used up, I had 3 more calibers to feed, and an interest in more accurate, tailored ammo. At the silhouette range my factory loads would knock the chickens over the berm, they were too strong for the situation and why put up with that recoil and noise?

So I decided to reload for .357, but I was still going to use factory for my hunting ammo in 30-30 and 35 Rem. A box a year, why get the dies, and fuss with it? Well, the California legislature decided the condors were at risk from my lead bullets, so I had to develop my own hunting loads. So now I have 3 calibers, 4 kinds of powder, 2 kinds of primers, 8 or 9 types of bullets, etc.

I sort of miss the simplicity of just having that case in the closet, and taking out a box when it was time to go shoot. At the time it was $225 for the case, and that's not too bad if it works for you and lasts the whole year. Now that it's up to $400, the layout for loading equipment is more attractive.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:05 am

In reply to your original question, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:24 am

Well, I've got a problem that I have never been able to shake. I buy all my reloading components and factory loaded ammo and sit an look at it all and then end up giving some of it away.

Just yesterday, I went down to the hardware store to get a gallon of paint so the wife could paint her new flower boxes. As I'm pulling out of my parking spot, a friend and his wife pull in and get out of their truck. I ask the guy if he's been out shooting ground squirrels and he says yes but he's down to only three boxes of .22LR ammo. I said, you mean bricks don't you and he said no, boxes and that he hadn't been able to get anymore .22LR. Well, I pull my truck over, get out, open my crossbed box, take out a brick of Winchester Super X 40gr HP Power Point (the real good stuff) and give it to him.

You guys remember the 2000 .444 Marlin cases I bought a couple of months ago? We have about 5-guys that I know of that are active .444 Marlin shooters in my area. I was at the range one day when two of them were shooting and I heard them remark that they were running low on .444 Marlin components -- mostly brass. So, when I got home, I put 500 .444 Marlin cases in my crossbed box and the other day when I saw them at the range I gave them 250 .444 Marlin cases each.

I have a set limit that I will not go below but I will not see another shooter have to put his rifle away and not shoot it because he can't find or afford ammo to shoot/reload.

I'm not an easy touch as I will normally not give away something if someone ask for it. I like to give stuff to guys that I happen to find out have some problem or run across someone (like the guy at the hardware store) that is facing not shooting because he is running out of ammo.

Anyway, I know where I can pick up 3 to 5-bricks of that Winchester Super X HP 40gr Power Point .22LR ammo so, I'll go down today and pick it up. Even if I didn't know where to get any, I'd of still given that guy the brick I gave him.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:35 am

I just bought a case (900 rounds) of Romanian 8mm JS ammo for $225. This is for fun shooting at the range. That's 25 cents per round and so, a typical range session where I will shoot 60 rounds will cost me $15. The same as shooting up a bulk box of .22LR.

That's how I've been spending my ammo money.

For hunting, I reload and purchase components on sale as I find em.

As to who's purchasing $30/box .308 ammo - its the hunters. They need the ammo, don't buy but a box or two and though they don't like the inflated price, they need it to go hunting.... and there's a bunch of em in this country (thank God).

And as for the $25/50 count boxes of .223 55 gr fmj type ammo - all kinds of people are buying that up - the same people that bought an AR-15 for the first time just in case they won't be able to later - and to have a capable homeland defense rifle...

People are scared. I'm very concerned with what's going on myself. I will become scared if things develop like I think they are likely to. I believe that our current POTUS is a committed marxist and bent on destroying our country. He wants to turn it into a good, humble member of the new world government.

That is what I believe based on everything that I've seen him do and what I know of his background and mentors and what I've heard knowlegable people report and predict.

Dick Cheney has been bravely speaking out about the more agregious efforts to weaken our country's defenses and ability to defend against terrorism.

Sorry, this is on-topic as this kind of information and knowledge is what's at the root of the gun and ammo purchases and hoarding. IMHO

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:41 am

Modoc ED wrote:Well, I've got a problem that I have never been able to shake. I buy all my reloading components and factory loaded ammo and sit an look at it all and then end up giving some of it away.

Just yesterday, I went down to the hardware store to get a gallon of paint so the wife could paint her new flower boxes. As I'm pulling out of my parking spot, a friend and his wife pull in and get out of their truck. I ask the guy if he's been out shooting ground squirrels and he says yes but he's down to only three boxes of .22LR ammo. I said, you mean bricks don't you and he said no, boxes and that he hadn't been able to get anymore .22LR. Well, I pull my truck over, get out, open my crossbed box, take out a brick of Winchester Super X 40gr HP Power Point (the real good stuff) and give it to him.

You guys remember the 2000 .444 Marlin cases I bought a couple of months ago? We have about 5-guys that I know of that are active .444 Marlin shooters in my area. I was at the range one day when two of them were shooting and I heard them remark that they were running low on .444 Marlin components -- mostly brass. So, when I got home, I put 500 .444 Marlin cases in my crossbed box and the other day when I saw them at the range I gave them 250 .444 Marlin cases each.

I have a set limit that I will not go below but I will not see another shooter have to put his rifle away and not shoot it because he can't find or afford ammo to shoot/reload.

I'm not an easy touch as I will normally not give away something if someone ask for it. I like to give stuff to guys that I happen to find out have some problem or run across someone (like the guy at the hardware store) that is facing not shooting because he is running out of ammo.

Anyway, I know where I can pick up 3 to 5-bricks of that Winchester Super X HP 40gr Power Point .22LR ammo so, I'll go down today and pick it up. Even if I didn't know where to get any, I'd of still given that guy the brick I gave him.

Wow. Now, I'm not asking for this, but man could I use some 45 ACP bullets.

(just kidding)

Seriously - you are good guy - but don't give away too much! You need to raise your "line below which you won't go". I'm surprised those guys didn't offer to trade or pay for that brass. That's a nice chunk of change!

I'm not as generous as you are - but I do give my buddies ammo and even guns. These are to guys that are nice to me too, so not entirely philanthropic of me...

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:27 am

O.S.O.K. said:

I'm surprised those guys didn't offer to trade or pay for that brass. That's a nice chunk of change!

If they had offered to pay, I wouldn't have taken it and they wouldn't have gotten it. That's the whole purpose of doing what I do. Helping out guys that are in a pinch.

As I said, I have a set limit that I won't go below as to what I require for my own purposes.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:53 am

Somebody's buying it. I was at the range last month and a couple of kids(20's) showed up with a M1 garand and 10 boxes of just bought 30-06 remingtons. As they were shooting I was slobbering over the brass and asked the guy who owned the gun what he was going to do with the empties he said "nothin, why you want 'em" UUUh yeah! I got just under 100 cases and was able to help them out with a problem they were having with the rifle so everybody was happy. He had never heard of reloading ammo. he said they were going back to the LGS to get more ammo but he was surprised so many people shoot, considering how expensive it was. Tom

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:23 pm

It seems that there are really a couple things going on.

Shooters will reload &/or buy some Factory to compare to their reloads/create brass.

Fudds will buy a couple of boxes of Factory ammo per year for hunting season.

Fudds outnumber Shooters by a sizable percentage (if they didn't, we would have far fewer "it don't affect me" "gun laws" than we do now), so there is still a sizable market for overpriced factory ammo.

You can see it quite well here in IN where most deer hunting was/is still done with Slug Guns. CHEAP slugs cost .40 ea (5/$2 on sale) and Good slugs run $4+ ea, so very few people actually "practice". If they do anything at all, they just make sure the thing is sighted in a week or so before Season and have at it. (My FiL in MN is the same way... I gave him 5 boxes of Brenneke slugs for Christmas. They will probably last him 3 years.)

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:35 pm

I once read that handloaders are only about 25% (or so) of shooters. I wonder if that figure is still the same. Has anyone heard a different number?

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:37 pm

JustaJeepGuy wrote:I once read that handloaders are only about 25% (or so) of shooters. I wonder if that figure is still the same. Has anyone heard a different number?

Not sure of the percentage you gave but there are a lot of handloaders who have been hibernating throughout the past years that are coming out of hibernation, dusting off their dies, scales, etc. and taking stock of their powder, primer, bullets, and brass they have on hand now in order to start handloading again.

JoeArizona · Post by **JoeArizona** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:07 pm

We are causing our own "shortage" of ammo!

I was talking with one of the nice ladies at the gun counter at the local Wal Mart. She was upset because even she couldn't buy any .22 ammo. She said that every time they got some in, someone would come in and buy all of it before she could even go on break! One person would buy it all!

As long as we have the idea that we have to buy as much as we can before the horders get to it, there will be a "shortage". And the ammo companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:16 pm

Hobie wrote:That said, I am VERY glad for every additional billion rounds of ammo in the hands of private citizens.

A cop who is an FFL I know says the same thing, and for both guns and ammunition.

Widespread and unfettered gun ownership accomplishes two good things - it improves both the safety of our streets, and the stability of our society.

The sheer volume and variety of sources of data supporting both those concepts renders any sheep-like bleating for 'more gun control' nothing more than the mutterings of suicidal fools, or the orders of wannabe tyrants.

Jason_W wrote:It's sort of like the oil/gasoline bubble we had last year. When demand skyrockets and prices along with it, there is no incentive for the manufacturer to increase production. Why purchase new equipment and facilities at millions of dollars when everything your current machinery churns out is scooped up immediately and at an inflated price? All bubbles eventually burst, however.

If the industry felt it would be a sustained increase, though, they WOULD definitely increase production and supply, because their marginal rate of return per additional units sold will be greater than the drop in market price, to the extent their company alone has only a fraction of the market's total sales, and can increase that fraction materially.

Like you said, though, they probably feel it is a 'bubble' so they may hire existing workers to work overtime, or pay inflated material costs, but investing in new production facilities per se isn't too likely.

Of course, under a socialist government, you can't count on anything remaining legal or feasable for more than a moment anyway, so our current micromanaging regimes (both R's and D's) are damaging the citizen and business's ability to plan and act responsibly.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:30 pm

Ruger definitely feels it is a bubble. Despite being backordered on 455,000+ units right now, they are not going to increase capacity and once the bubble ends will produce enough to meet demand and "slowly" build up stock for the next bubble. No huge investments, no knee-jerk reactions. This seems to be the general consensus in the industry.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:40 pm

The only times I have responded to such ads was once to buy some bulk 303 for an Enfield I was shooting and then it was mostly for the brass and the other time was when I was shooting a Schmidt Rubin and it was the only way to get the brass. That was many years ago.

I haven't purchased any ammo but rimfire for a year or two. The last time I looked at ammo at Gander Mt they wanted 26 bucks for a brick. I passed and got it for almost half that at Wallyworld. I have tried to cut down on my reloading purchases as well. Once again Gander Mt stunned me by charging 10 bucks for a shell holder for my 30-40. I havn't graced them with my business since.

Right now I am reading up on casting and I will order the Lyman starter kit from Cabelas shortly with my Cabelas points. It isn't that I am hard up for cash, these prices just rub a tight wad like me the wrong way.

Unfortunately these may be the good old days as I am sure there will be more taxes added to arms and ammo sales in the future. You know, "for the children" or some other BS. Perhaps to help the poor Mexicans with all the problems we have caused by sending guns down there. By the way, I liked Edward Abbey's solution to illegal immigration- ship them all back and arm them at the border, that way they can fix their own country. Sorry, I' wandering.

dave

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:36 pm

Those prices are outrageous. They're for the fellows who take one shot at the range to see if they are sighted in and then go hunting, take three shots at a buck before it runs away, so their total for the year is 4 shots @ $2 each, which amounts to $8 (but no buck). The last box of ammo I bought was about 5 years ago. Been making my own since, and now I even make my own bullets. I still buy my primers and powder.

Halwg · Post by **Halwg** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:43 am

I recently bought a 444 Marlin and purchased 4 boxes of factory ammo to get me started shooting and collecting brass for reloading. At the time, January 2009, Cabela's, Gander Mountain and one of the local gun shops were selling 444 Remington and Hornady ammo for $34/box. I wasn't about to pay this price and I talked to my brother who has a friend who has a gun shop. He told me he had 3 boxes of Remington 240 gr 444's and would give me them at his cost which at the time was $22. I bought those 3. Then I was at a gun show in February and found a box of Hornady for $19. Those are the 4 I bought.

I have since bought 444 brass off of Gunbroker, and I have the dies and bullets and have been reloading since then. I went into a Gander Mountain on Saturday to check the prices and they were up to $39/box, and they clerk told me they are expecting another price increase. Quite amazing. I've been reloading for over 35 years, and even the prices for the components have skyrocketed.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue May 12, 2009 8:57 am

With 54gr of H-322 powder pushing the Hornady 265gr jacketed flat nose .430 bullet, you can duplicate the performance of the factory loaded Hornady Light Magnum .444 Marlin. And that load shoots well out of either the Microgroove or Ballard barrels.

Here's the link for that bullet. They are available. That bullet was developed by Hornady specifically for the .444 Marlin.

https://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#605468__9315__-_

HATCHETTJACK · Post by **HATCHETTJACK** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:27 pm

KirkD wrote:Those prices are outrageous. They're for the fellows who take one shot at the range to see if they are sighted in and then go hunting, take three shots at a buck before it runs away, so their total for the year is 4 shots @ $2 each, which amounts to $8 (but no buck). The last box of ammo I bought was about 5 years ago. Been making my own since, and now I even make my own bullets. I still buy my primers and powder.

thats how i do it... bet i can outshoot those that fire thousands of rounds a year... i get my bucks every year too... lots of wasteful people causing their own shortages, i have no sympathy for em... just cause you shoot alot, it does not make you better...

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:29 pm

if dealer cost is $22, then $39 is a good price. Dealers must be complaining about having to carry ammo and then not making any money off of it. The shipping must kill them.

I remember selling cameras, you'd sell a $300 camera and the company would make $8, you'd sell a $25 case and the company would make $18. Film? forget about it.

I agree that shooting thousands of rounds doesn't make you good. I get sloppy after about 20 rounds. Lately my first group has been the best. I think it IS a good idea to shoot regularly though. I try to stop and pop off 15-20 rounds every week.

Kind of tough when the range charges for the day, and you have to drive a while to get there, it's tempting to make a day of it and shoot 100 rounds or more. I'm lucky to have an indoor range close by and I can stop in for just a few minutes without paying anything extra.

ndcowboy · Post by **ndcowboy** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:11 am

HATCHETTJACK wrote:
KirkD wrote:Those prices are outrageous. They're for the fellows who take one shot at the range to see if they are sighted in and then go hunting, take three shots at a buck before it runs away, so their total for the year is 4 shots @ $2 each, which amounts to $8 (but no buck). The last box of ammo I bought was about 5 years ago. Been making my own since, and now I even make my own bullets. I still buy my primers and powder.
thats how i do it... bet i can outshoot those that fire thousands of rounds a year... i get my bucks every year too... lots of wasteful people causing their own shortages, i have no sympathy for em... just cause you shoot alot, it does not make you better...

That's right - I heard Michael Jordan only shot four jumpers a year in practice and then went out and dominated on the basketball floor

Now this is an internet forum, and I have no way of knowing what kind of shot you are, but there is definitely a correlation between practice and good shooting. The more you practice, the better a chance you have of becoming a really good shot.
Am I saying you can't shoot four rounds a year and get a deer? Of course not. But I am saying the more a person shoots, the more comfortable he gets with his firearm, which leads to better shooting. And these ammo prices are hurting practice, which could lead to poorer shooting and more wounded game come fall.