450 Gr in the 45-70 and 45-90

[86er]

CRS provided a bunch of 450 gr Northfork solid bullets in .458. Mike Rintoul of Grizzly Cartrige provided load data. We seated bullets to OACL of 2.54 for the Marlin rifle in 45-70. Using 4198 or 322 we can get 1725 fps and excellent accuracy. With an OACL of 2.75 the cartridges work fine in the 1886EL and the 1886TD rifle. The longer seating allowed for more powder and hence more velocity. We can get 1800 fps and a little bit using the same powders with a grain and a half more. This is the load I used to shoot the Cape Buffalo in the hip and the bullet was recovered in its face in perfect condition with no weight loss. The straight line penetration measure internally when the animal was split in half was measured at 52 inches. I provided the 2.54 length ammo to a neighbor that was going to put down an oxen bull. He shot it in the face at 25 yds and the bullet exited right in front of the hip. I guess he did not shoot it square on but nonetheless the outside measurement from entrance to exit was 54 inches.

In the 45-90 using the 322 powder we were able to achieve 1950 fps with the 450 gr NFS.

I am now loading some 450gr cup point Northforks. The bullet is solid copper but the tip has a 1/10 in deep hexagon hole in it, similar to the old NF style cup points. The idea is that the cupped tip opens up to .60 caliber but doesn not peel back more than the 1/10 in. The weight retention is 100% unless you loose a petal or so. Thus far, it seems the petals open within the first 8 inches of penetration. On most large animals that depth it starting to affect the good stuff. Even if the petals broke off soon after that I anticipate the damage would be done and the remaining solid would keep on going. I'll report on those when we can shoot something big with them.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Have you tried the NF 458-450SS in the 45-90 yet? Or the 400's. I'm curious about what you get out of them from the 1886. They are a bit shorter than the copper solids and should leave you with a tad more powder space ... though they are still pretty long for 458's.

[crs]

RM;
Not yet - I just recovered my .45-90 dies and will get to that as soon as possible.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

RM;
Not yet - I just recovered my .45-90 dies and will get to that as soon as possible.

Just curious now that 86er has shown the 450 solid at 1950fps. That seems fairly unstoppable. I'm hoping to hear you crack 2000fps with the copper/lead SS's.

[gundownunder]

Does the word RECOIL mean anything to you.

[Leverluver]

Rimfire

I seriously doubt that the NF SS will work in a 45-70 or 90 or any other cartridge chambered in the 86/71. Unless you severely reduce the case length below nominal, the ogive on the bullet is too long and you will be attempting to crimp on a reduced section of the bullet (where, by the way, there is no crimp groove). That coupled with the fact that the SS bullet was designed for velocities that are unobtainable on that platform. I suggest that you contact NF and talk them into lengthening the 458-350 to 400 grains. Such a bullet would be great in the larger case capacity tubular 458s and it is designed from the start for tubulars.

LL

[Tycer]

Does the word RECOIL mean anything to you.

I added a pound to the weight to my 1886 EL and a thick recoil pad to be able to sit through 50 450s at 1650 at the bench. It's not detach retina hard, but not far from it.

I wonder what these rounds do at one of Reverend Taylor's car shoots.

[awp101]

Does the word RECOIL mean anything to you.

I added a pound to the weight to my 1886 EL and a thick recoil pad to be able to sit through 50 450s at 1650 at the bench. It's not detach retina hard, but not far from it.

I wonder what these rounds do at one of Reverend Taylor's car shoots.

Car? You may be in Sherman hunting territory with that load...

[Jaguarundi]

More like JagdtPanzer hunt'n territory !

[crs]

86er ;
How about some pictures of that new NF CPS ?
Your description was fine, but a close up picture or two would help all of us "see" the new cup.

gundownunder - recoil is an interesting thing and always to be considered. Testing these heavy loads from a bench rest is much more pleasant (fun even ) if you use something like the Caldwell Lead Sled to absorb the recoil.
http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/c ... =Lead-Sled
I bought one just for big bore load experimentation and we store it at the Krodle Kountry range. It has 50 pounds of lead shot in its tray and that could be doubled if necessary, but so far with only these hot and heavy loads for the .45-70 and .45-90, 50 pounds does the trick.

Leverluver - You are correct about the bullet length, but the bullets that RM mentioned are to be loaded in .45-90 cases only to be hand fed into the 1886 and to be used for penetration testing only.

[Ysabel Kid]

52 inches of straight line penetration? HOLY MOLY!