Chapparral Arms?

Ppsh41 · Post by **Ppsh41** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:37 pm

Hi Forum. Anyone ever seen or heard of a Chaparral Arms rifle? I visted their website and they are imported (from Italy/Uberti??? I can only guess) and final finished in the USA. The company is owned by Charter Arms of inexpensive revolver fame.

The reason I'm asking is CDNN Investments has a '66 and a '73 for rifle, short rifle and SRC at $589.99 in .45 colt and .357 mag and a'76 in 28", 26" and a short rifle at $699.99 in .40/60, .45/60, .45/75 and .50/95 WCF. Also a 1876 North West Mounted Police Carbine in .45/75 for $799.99.

These are very reasonable wholesale prices even after the FFL's transfer fees and flat $9.99 shipping. Being that the rifles are assembled and final finished in the US, has anyone seen one and compared it to a rifle fully assembled and finished in Italy? I'm thinking strongly about a '73 rifle in .45 colt, hate to buy a pig in a poke. Thanks!

1886 · Post by **1886** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:42 pm

I think Gunblast did an article on a 76 from Chap. a while back. Check their site and look under archives until you find the write up. Anyway someone here is sure to have some experience with Chap. Arms. 1886

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:50 pm

THE REPUTATION OF THE CHAPARREL ' 76 RIFLES AND CARBINES HAS BEEN CIRCUMSPECT AT BEST. THEERE HAVE BEEN SOME TRULY DOGGY ' 76' S SOLD BY THAT OUTFIT. I WAS NOT IMPRESSED BY THE SINGLE RIFLE OF THEIRS I SAW.
ALL OF MY '73'S ARE UBERTI'S AND WHEN I ADD A ' 76 TO THE MENAGERIE IT'LL BE A UBERTI/CIMARRON TOO IF THINGS STAND AS THEY ARE NOW.
PLEASE NOTE THIS : WHEN YOU SEE STUFF FOR SALE AT CDNN IT IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING DISCONTINUED IF IT IS NOT ALREADY. ALWAYS ASK YOURSELF A SIMPLE QUESTION...WHY ??

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:02 pm

I've got a Chaparral 1876 in 40-60WCF I got over a year ago. I've had no problems at all with it.

A guy on the Cascity 1876 forum has gotten one of the CDNN guns already.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index. ... 128.0.html

I don't know that he's shot it yet.

old goat · Post by **old goat** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:36 pm

...Seems like there was a thread about the CDNN guns a few days ago. IIRC, the head man at Chapparral Arms said those were NOT Chapparral guns and Chapparral Arms would NOT warranty them. You might go back and find the thread, or Hobie might remember what was said. At any rate, caution seems to be in order here.

...old goat

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:10 pm

Mr. Murbach is absolutely right. Cimarron has the best Uberti's. I've heard they demand a better fit and finish on the guns they sell. The revolvers and the '73 copy I have from them seems to bear this out.
Nice firearms.

Marlin .35 · Post by **Marlin .35** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:40 pm

I think I will pass on all of these!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Art

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:52 pm

I have a Uberti '73.I will buy another Uberti. everyone who has looked at it was amazed with the quality and fit and finish. Like everything else We usually get what We pay for. Jim.

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:25 pm

I have a Chapparal 1876 and after some judicious load selection it shoots like a dream. Caliber is 45-75 and with my favorite load it averages 2" for 3 shots at 100 yards. Fit and finish are excellent on my specimen, but have heard both tales from others (good gun, bad gun). Maybe their QC is not up to par so some lemons get out. I am MORE than happy with mine and if I had to do it all over again would pick the Chapparal. One thing I cannot put up with is Italian import marks on what should be an American rifle so that leaves out the Ubertis for me....just my little pet peeve and everybody has different strokes on this. The Chaparral, being assembled and final fitted in America does not have these marks.
As far as CDNN I have got some GREAT deals there. Bought a Savage Stevens Favorite in 22 mag there, it too is excellent and shoots well. Also bought some tang sights and some ammo from them. At one point they had a Winchester 1886 hi grade (with the gold inlays, etc) at some ridiculous price (999 I think)...I hesitated a bit too long and they were gone by the time I called. I saved the catalog from that one to remind myself of the episode! Close-out does not necessarily mean it is bad. Check out a few Chaparrals at gunshows or ask your dealer if he orders from CDNN do you have an inspection period for the gun.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:35 pm

Maybe some of the problem was that they WERE assembled in the USA. Anyway, they are now all assembled in Italy so they WILL have the dastardly proof marks

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:39 pm

Well, which would you rather have, the "dastardly Italian proof marks", or lawyer inspired warnings like Ruger and Marlin stamp on their rifles?

Joe

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:42 pm

Maybe some of the problem was that they WERE assembled in the USA

Now Now.....the US is not that bad is it????
JM, I'd rather have the warning labels than the proof marks...but my Chapparal has neither

Just a pet peeve of mine...I can handle them on automatics and bolt guns and single shots...but not on my dear sixguns or leverguns.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 am

Already covered above, but just to recap, the Chaparral Arms are not made by Uberti. The parts are made in Italy and assembled in the US. Some folks did have a lot of problems with the early Chaparral Arms guns. I guess I was lucky with mine. That being said, if Uberti had them out when I purchased mine, I would have probably spent the extra on the Uberti model.

Good luck - let us know if you pick one up! And, welcome aboard!!!:D

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:18 am

I have a Chaparral 1876 SRC and I like it. I'm still playing with loads but it seems to be pretty good to me. As Buffboy pointed out, one fellow took a chance and seems pretty happy. I think they did a better job with the SRCs than the rifles (which came out first). There was bound to be a limited market for this gun. Only nutters would buy one. If you're nutter enough to load and shoot these then you might as well take a chance. When you sell you can ask a discount from full retail and still get your money back.

Terry, as usual, makes a good point as to there being a reason that CDNN has the guns. They are sort of the Big Lots of the firearms world. Still, if one is one of those interested in guns that don't sell one can get a good buy. I should point out that before Winchester announced the closing CDNN had a lot of 9422s at very good prices.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:04 am

Buffboy wrote:I've got a Chaparral 1876 in 40-60WCF I got over a year ago. I've had no problems at all with it.

Got to check one of these guns out recently at the local Gander Mnt., also chambered in .40-60. I couldn't believe how heavy that thing was! I may get one yet (Uberti), but I don't think I'd bother with one chambered in less than .45-75 or .50-95.

~Michael

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:18 am

OKAY HOBIE, WHO HAS BEEN IN THE MIX MESSING UP OUR POSTINGS ??? WHAT'S WITH THAT PERSON/PERSON/PERSON THING ???

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:23 am

Terry Murbach wrote:OKAY HOBIE, WHO HAS BEEN IN THE MIX MESSING UP OUR POSTINGS ??? WHAT'S WITH THAT PERSON/PERSON/PERSON THING ???

Terry,

That's me, I messed up the word censor but have fixed it now.

Just refresh the page if you still have a problem.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:47 am

WELL I'LL BE darned !!! HOW DID YOU DO THAT !!! TEACH ME HOW SO I CAN REALLY GO MESS WITH SOME THE YAHOOS ON THE INTERNET.

ON SECOND THOUGHT YOU BETTER NOT. CARRY ON SGT HOBIE.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:53 am

We administrators can do that. See what happened to your previous post? BUT if you go to edit it you'll see the original word. That's how this software works. We had the same thing on the old forum which made some words like "Washita" come out funny...

45-70- · Post by **45-70-** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:42 pm

Doesnt Beretta own Uberti?

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:56 pm

YES SIR, BERETTA DOES OWN UBERTI NOW. BERETTA ALSO OWNS SAKO IN FINLAND AND THE LARGE AMERICAN IMPORTER, A.F. STOEGER.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:07 pm

45-70- wrote:Doesnt Beretta own Uberti?

Yes.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:29 am

These Chapparrel guns are made by Angelo Bufoli. Angelo's claim to fame is his was the previouse owner/maker of the Armi San Marco guns, ASM's. He went out of business in the mid 90's because of QC issues and was then reincarnated when AWA International bought into the company before they went out of business for the same reason. I was told by the CEO of AWA Int. that at one time they were getting as much as 25% rejects. What that means is 75% were good guns but that is still way to high percentage of rejects to remain in business for long.
After the AWA international deal, then he was Palmetto arms which I understand is also out of business now as well. That said, don't confuse the New AWA-USA with the old company.

They also have a 66 and a 73 out. I was sent 3 of these for evaluation. These guns have issues. For most folks they will do, but there is no way they will stand up to the rigors of CAS.

Think about this. None of the top CAS gun importers, EMF, Cimmaron, or Taylors is selling these guns. That should tell you something.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:03 pm

old goat wrote:...Seems like there was a thread about the CDNN guns a few days ago. IIRC, the head man at Chapparral Arms said those were NOT Chapparral guns and Chapparral Arms would NOT warranty them.

According to the catalogue, they're marked "Charles Daily" (they're spelling, not mine...

)

If they aren't Chapparral's, how can CDNN sell them as such without opening themselves up to allegations false advertising?

remcclellen · Post by **remcclellen** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:17 pm

If they aren't Chapparral's, how can CDNN sell them as such without opening themselves up to allegations false advertising?

These guns being sold by CDNN are made by Chaparral Europe. They are not sold through Chaparral USA as were the first guns that were actually assembled in the USA. Chaparral Europe and Chaparral USA are separate companies that had a marketing and distrbution agreement to cooperate in bringing these guns to the US market.

Chaparral Europe made a agreement(unbeknownst to Chaparral USA) with Charles Daley to inport guns that were assembled in Italy. These guns were rejected by Daley because the Daley name was mispelled on them. They were then sold as a lot to CDNN who discounted them significantly below the Chaparral USA price structure.

Only when the CDNN brochure showed up on line did Chaparral USA find out about the Daley deal. Chaparral USA will not warrantee these guns. I don't know who will. The breaking up of the business agreement between Chaparral USA and Chaparral Europe has basically eliminated the whole distribution system of Chaparral USA. I don't know if they will even continue to exist.

The end result is a dumping of guns on the market with no US warranty. A worse result is that Chaparral USA may not even be around to perform warranty work on the guns that they sold. When I talked to the head of Chaparral USA about two problems with a 76 that I own, I was greeted with no hope of getting any help. He acted as if such problems were new to him. His main distributor had already told me that both were commonly seen problems.

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:40 pm

remcclellen wrote:If they aren't Chapparral's, how can CDNN sell them as such without opening themselves up to allegations false advertising?

These guns being sold by CDNN are made by Chaparral Europe. They are not sold through Chaparral USA as were the first guns that were actually assembled in the USA. Chaparral Europe and Chaparral USA are separate companies that had a marketing and distrbution agreement to cooperate in bringing these guns to the US market.

Chaparral Europe made a agreement(unbeknownst to Chaparral USA) with Charles Daley to inport guns that were assembled in Italy. These guns were rejected by Daley because the Daley name was mispelled on them. They were then sold as a lot to CDNN who discounted them significantly below the Chaparral USA price structure.

Only when the CDNN brochure showed up on line did Chaparral USA find out about the Daley deal. Chaparral USA will not warrantee these guns. I don't know who will. The breaking up of the business agreement between Chaparral USA and Chaparral Europe has basically eliminated the whole distribution system of Chaparral USA. I don't know if they will even continue to exist.

The end result is a dumping of guns on the market with no US warranty. A worse result is that Chaparral USA may not even be around to perform warranty work on the guns that they sold. When I talked to the head of Chaparral USA about two problems with a 76 that I own, I was greeted with no hope of getting any help. He acted as if such problems were new to him. His main distributor had already told me that both were commonly seen problems.

My understanding is that Charles Daley will stand behind the CDNN guns.

Check out post 40-51 in this thread.

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?sho ... cdnn&st=35

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:22 pm

remcclellen wrote:Chaparral Europe made a agreement(unbeknownst to Chaparral USA) with Charles Daley to inport guns that were assembled in Italy. These guns were rejected by Daley because the Daley name was mispelled on them. They were then sold as a lot to CDNN who discounted them significantly below the Chaparral USA price structure.

Ah, the old "technicality" trick...

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:13 pm

i like uberti myself....
althought chaparral rifles are made from uberti parts
the fit and finish is much better on a uberti....
and i have heard about a lot of problems with their actions
I have a EMF / Uberti 73 in 44-40
and a Stoeger / Uberti in 45 lc
and i like them both

you may want to look at Cimmaron firearms too

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:21 am

RIHMFIRE wrote:i like uberti myself....
althought chaparral rifles are made from uberti parts
the fit and finish is much better on a uberti....
and i have heard about a lot of problems with their actions
I have a EMF / Uberti 73 in 44-40
and a Stoeger / Uberti in 45 lc
and i like them both

you may want to look at Cimmaron firearms too

Uberti does not make any parts for Chaparral. Two very different makers!

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:19 am

i stand corrected...brain fanny burp..
but as for the other comments i made about the quality...
I have heard comments from a lot of unsatisfied customers..
But Hobie and Ysabel Kid seem to be very happy with theirs!

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:19 am

Yep, I just wish I could get to shoot mine more!

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:42 am

Yeah, same here. I'd just like to shoot mine ONCE. No cases, no loading.

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:54 pm

Mike D. wrote:Yeah, same here. I'd just like to shoot mine ONCE. No cases, no loading.

That's a bummer. Whatsha got, a Uberti or a Chaparral? Caliber?