Such Honorable Gentlemen Indeed

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:50 pm

Whether or not the recent "Can I..?" post was a fishing expedition or not, I find it a matter of pride that not one of my fellow levergunners posted a response like "Well, I know this guy, and he can get you whatever...". We don't need people like that hanging around.

I don't think any one of us ever posts anything we'd not say in front of a cop (which is good, since several members are LEO's!), judge, or our own mother. Now if it ever gets so bad in our country that we can't voice strong political opinions, I suppose most of us are guilty as charged, but last I heard you could still do that.

Anyway, if it WAS a fishing expedition, it would be interesting to see what responses the same post would get on some of the 'other' forums on the internet. I may be wrong and misjudging some of the other forums out there, but I'm betting there'd be some aiding and abetting going on.

Anyway, next time one of you gets a notion to quit the forum because it's "gone downhill" you might want to think a minute about where else you'd find such a bunch of honorable gentlemen.

(Of course now that I've bragged on you guys, the next post will probably be some idiot or troll doing just what I bragged on you guys about not doing...

)

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:04 pm

Maybe, but I think we can trust the membership to see through the fog.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:21 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Whether or not the recent "Can I..?" post was a fishing expedition or not, I find it a matter of pride that not one of my fellow levergunners posted a response like "Well, I know this guy, and he can get you whatever...".

Which, of course, perfectly describes the failings of all attempts at "gun control", (NFA '32, GCA '68, whatever,) anyway. Malum Prohibitum vs Malum in se.

Someone with criminal intent - a true criminal - will not think twice about committing a crime in order to do what they want. All the "gun laws" do is disarm those who are/were not really "criminals" in the first place (though they may have been "law breakers" (Lautenberg anyone?)) who now have to live in fear of both the gooberment AND their defenseless lives.

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:41 pm

I don't think anyone steped over the line in response to Quacky's post and I'm not surprised.... "Quacky"

I can't help laughing...sorry. I reckon "Jarhead" is almost as bad

but at least I'm not a FELON.

Glad my parents taught me right from wrong. Part of the punishment for a "felony" crime is not getting the pleasure of owning and carressing an old "Lever' from the past. Sound's like "Hell" to me! But life is all about "choices."

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:03 pm

I guess I'm the odd man out here with regards to the question posed by Q. Must be the Classic Liberal in me Or that danged ol' philosopher aspect of my personality. I do not view a felony as reason to suspend a persons rights once time has been served. Doing so violates what is right. Does a felon lose his right to speech, assembly, religion, etc. indefinitely after serving time?

I believe in restitution for a crime committed, not perpetual incarceration.

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:18 pm

DBW wrote:I guess I'm the odd man out here with regards to the question posed by Q. Must be the Classic Liberal in me Or that danged ol' philosopher aspect of my personality. I do not view a felony as reason to suspend a persons rights once time has been served. Doing so violates what is right. Does a felon lose his right to speech, assembly, religion, etc. indefinitely after serving time?

I believe in restitution for a crime committed, not perpetual incarceration.

I have to agree simply because I am a forgiving christian. I can't hold anybody's past against them but I do watch them more carefully. Thats kinda the way I was brought up. It may be wrong, it may be right but who but God can say.

And like AJMD said, this is a great forum. Still the only one I am active in.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:27 am

I have to deal (at arm's length) with a convicted felon who may (or may not) have his gun rights back. We are unclear as to his status... and the state he lives in doesnt seem to care to clarify that status. He posesses at least 2 handguns... and has brandished those in a legitimently threating way in the past... and the local police and state police didnt seem to want to pursue the task of disarming this person.

Christian forgivness is nice... but in my experience folks tend to be "what they are" and some of our neighbors bear watching all the time.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:05 am

morgan in nm wrote:
DBW wrote:I guess I'm the odd man out here with regards to the question posed by Q. Must be the Classic Liberal in me Or that danged ol' philosopher aspect of my personality. I do not view a felony as reason to suspend a persons rights once time has been served. Doing so violates what is right. Does a felon lose his right to speech, assembly, religion, etc. indefinitely after serving time?

I believe in restitution for a crime committed, not perpetual incarceration.
I have to agree simply because I am a forgiving christian. I can't hold anybody's past against them but I do watch them more carefully. Thats kinda the way I was brought up. It may be wrong, it may be right but who but God can say.

And like AJMD said, this is a great forum. Still the only one I am active in.

For me it's not really a matter of forgiveness. Even though I'm Christian I'm simply inclined to view God's plan for the children of Israel as described in Exedus 21 & 22 as a matter of practicality. Granted we aren't Israel but the principles are sound since they do come from Him. But of course most Americans have been indoctrinated into believing that "throwing a person in jail" is the best form of punishment for all crimes. I disagree and as our overflowing prisons show, it isn't working. The fact that we no longer call them prisons... but correction facilities... bears this out. Inmates are now residents, prison guards are now correctional officers. What a load of BS. Whatever it's called, it's not working.

I'm always in awe when some people who claim to value Liberty are so ready to take another person's liberty away forever because of a past wrong. Perhaps if our society opperated in a more virtuous manner the level of lawlessness would be less. In the year 2009 where we're overburdened with laws we are also overwhelmed with lawlessness and filled prisons. Something is wrong with this picture. I keep asking myself if we are a better society today than we were 100, 150 or 200 years ago? The answer I continue to come up with is NO. We have more stuff, more gadgets... less virtue, less freedom.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:30 am

I'm with DBW here. Firstly, there are so many things that the Gooberment has declared "felonies" or other "disqualifying conditions" that even Jesus would have been "prohibited" from bearing arms.

Secondly, RKBA is either a Fundamental Right, or it isn't.

If it is a Fundamental pre-existing Right, then NOTHING a Gooberment says should be able to remove it. If they can, it is not a Right, but a mere Privelege based solely on THE GOVERNMENT'S definition of "good behavior" (Party Membership?)

Thirdly, if someone is too violent/dangerous/untreatably psychotic to possess firearms, then they are too violent/dangerous/untreatably psychotic to be on the streets. Period. If they are "safe" enough to be able to walk down the street past your kids with knives, bats, axes, chainsaws, a 57 DeSoto, whatever, then they are "safe" enough to have a firearm.

To suggest that simply possession a firearm makes a person ("normal", felon or adjudicated) "more dangerous" is accepting a falacy that has been created by Anti Gun statists. A Gun does not make anyone "more dangerous" any more than it makes someone "more safe". It is simply a tool. It is intent and mindset that makes a person "safe"/"dangerous".

The whole idea that the mere possession of ANY "thing" can be evil is illogical and irrational.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:58 am

I'm not in agreement, wholly. "Once a felon... almost always a felon." And, as so many of us like to believe, we are a "Nation of Laws"; since we've codified a law, "felons are not allowed to vote, possess firearms, etc." that is part and parcel of the consequences of the choices the individual makes in committing a felony. That is above and beyond any "punishment" meted out for the act. (Let's face facts, jail sentences are not recreation periods... no matter how easy we may seem to feel about the current state of our jails.) It is a finding with the conviction of the crime that the individual is no longer trustworthy in society. In a manner of speaking, their decision to break the law in the case of a felony, also calls into question their future decision making abilities regarding the future rule (voting), and full participation (gun ownership), of our society. Now... the fact that we, as a society, also recognize that an individual can remediate themselves and again become fully participatory in our society, we have a mechanism (in most states), where said individual can regain those rights. Jumping thru the hoops or whatever might be required to show that one is remediated, is not unreasonable. If one is inclined to show one's responsibility to one's neighbors that they deserve those rights restored, then do the necessary legwork to get 'er done. Otherwise live with the consequences of your earlier decisions.

DBW & OI, I agree, "Correctional Facility," et al, are just politically correct labels to make the liberal elements feel good. The "State" cannot correct, remediate, nor reform anyone. Only the individual may do that.

Here's my problem with the original post:

"I am still considered mentally ill, with a history of violent behavior."

This seems to be a "Catch-22" situation. Can a individual that's mentally ill, recognize the problem and act in such a fashion as to not exhibit the symptoms of such illness. If so, then how is one "considered mentally ill". I submit that the individual may be cognizant of the finding, but not cognizant of the actions or behaviors that would render such determination. And in accordance with the law, such individual could not truthfully answer the questions on the 4473 that would allow the sale to proceed.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:21 am

Unfortunately, in this society, one can "commit a felony" WITHOUT "deciding" to do it.

If a Prosecutor (persecutor?) wants you bad enough there is SOME "felony" they can get you on... never mind the way that "Domestic Violence" laws are written so that if your crabby SiL doesn't like you you can be Lautenbereged out of your guns for "punching" your Brother in the arm at a cookout...(i.e. she files a DV against you)

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:25 pm

Possessing an eagle feather, even if fell from a passing eagle overhead is a "felony". Restitution in our society would likely be a better option instead of incarceration. Unfortunately we're up to our eyes with laws intent on modifying behavior instead of correcting wrongs.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Wait a minute.
I have an eagle feather, hand painted and signed by the artist, it was done by a friend of mines wife, a member of the San Carlos res.
Because it was a gift from a native, it is permissible.

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:49 pm

Better get yourself an eagle feather permit pronto....,unless you're 1/4 indian..!

I'm sure there's a trigger happy peta type from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that would glady run you in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_feather_law

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:53 pm

I have never heard of an eagle feather permit.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:54 pm

The more laws they can get you to break, the better chance they have of getting your guns.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:56 pm

mescalero1 wrote:I have never heard of an eagle feather permit.

Lot's of Indians around these parts.......Ya can't just get an Eagle feather, you have to be gifted/earn an Eagle feather......

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:57 pm

It WAS a gift.

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:14 pm

I guess they do have eagle permits..., here's one from the Iowa tribe up the road. News to me.

http://www.iowanation.org/pdf/Tribal-Feather-App.pdf

I wonder if there's a reward for turning in an illegal eagle feather holder.......?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:22 pm

deerwhacker444 wrote:I guess they do have eagle permits..., here's one from the Iowa tribe up the road. News to me.

http://www.iowanation.org/pdf/Tribal-Feather-App.pdf

I wonder if there's a reward for turning in an illegal eagle feather holder.......?

No reward, but a real feather in one's cap......

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:48 pm

This thread has gone to the birds.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:22 pm

Griff wrote:I'm not in agreement, wholly. "Once a felon... almost always a felon." And, as so many of us like to believe, we are a "Nation of Laws"; since we've codified a law, "felons are not allowed to vote, possess firearms, etc." that is part and parcel of the consequences of the choices the individual makes in committing a felony. ...//... In a manner of speaking, their decision to break the law in the case of a felony, also calls into question their future decision making abilities regarding the future rule (voting), and full participation (gun ownership), of our society.

Remember that, if some Alpha-Goon finds you committed some technical 'felony' due to where you parked, the way you disposed of the oil the last time you changed your lawnmower's oil, or the fact that your car broke down in a 'school zone' when you had a gun under the seat (happened in my home town to an innocent person whose only choice was to leave the vehicle carrying a 12 gauge shotgun and walk down the road with it to the nearest service station - he's a 'gun felon' now, because he instead left the gun in the vehicle. He had no way of knowing he was at a 'school' because it just looked like (and was) a church - but it had a school in back of the main building.). People don't always make a "decision to break the law" and "felonies" is a term which lumps together transposing two letters in your street address on a 4473 and rape/murder of a child. Maybe to some, both those "felonies" are the same and both "criminals" should lose gun rights forever, but I just can't categorize the breaking of a paperwork law along beside a real crime of violence with an actual victim. Maybe it's just me.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:35 pm

I agree, Doc

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:32 am

Not just you Doc. Me too. This once was a country to be proud of. Lately, it's just plain ol' disgusting the direction we're headed.

gunslinger598 · Post by **gunslinger598** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:07 am

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:26 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Griff wrote:I'm not in agreement, wholly. "Once a felon... almost always a felon." And, as so many of us like to believe, we are a "Nation of Laws"; since we've codified a law, "felons are not allowed to vote, possess firearms, etc." that is part and parcel of the consequences of the choices the individual makes in committing a felony. ...//... In a manner of speaking, their decision to break the law in the case of a felony, also calls into question their future decision making abilities regarding the future rule (voting), and full participation (gun ownership), of our society.
Remember that, if some Alpha-Goon finds you committed some technical 'felony' due to where you parked, the way you disposed of the oil the last time you changed your lawnmower's oil, or the fact that your car broke down in a 'school zone' when you had a gun under the seat (happened in my home town to an innocent person whose only choice was to leave the vehicle carrying a 12 gauge shotgun and walk down the road with it to the nearest service station - he's a 'gun felon' now, because he instead left the gun in the vehicle. He had no way of knowing he was at a 'school' because it just looked like (and was) a church - but it had a school in back of the main building.).

He needs to appeal that conviction. I thought that law was declared unconstitutional. Not that "unconstitutional" means anything any more...

People don't always make a "decision to break the law" and "felonies" is a term which lumps together transposing two letters in your street address on a 4473 and rape/murder of a child. Maybe to some, both those "felonies" are the same and both "criminals" should lose gun rights forever, but I just can't categorize the breaking of a paperwork law along beside a real crime of violence with an actual victim. Maybe it's just me.

That's because, as a Doctor you can be "Felonized" for a typo on any number of Gooberment Mandated Forms... most people don't have that DAILY worry...

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:51 am

Dont take this as any legal advice just my thoughts!

My own feeling is "anytime you have any gun in a vehicle" have it EMPTY and in a LOCKED gun case.except where you have a CCW.
Then:

Even if you have a CCW and are packing stay away from school zones.(1000ft from edge of school lands)if somehow you are where there is a school zone unknown to you like out of town then you are ignorant of that school being present but leave that area ASAP!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:56 am

DBW, OI, AJMD, "convicted felon, mentally unstable, violent offender" does not have the same connotation as "clerical error" (even if you can show a felony for same) in regards to the 2nd Amendment. Yes, there are certainly inequities in the application of law... And I'm certainly not in favor of the same penalties being applied for even the same category of crime (felony murder vs. felonious clerical error), but... my comments were directed at the first case, not the hypothetical bookkeeping errors circumstances you threw up. Far better legal minds than mine have weighed in on these issues... and resolutions can be reached in almost all cases... but... when you talk, "convicted felon, mentally unstable, violent offender" do you really think the court (judge) is going to apply the same criteria in his decision making in reviewing "obvious error in filing medi-care form", or even, "error in log-book entry" vs deliberate fraud or misrepresentation.

Feel free to disagree... my paranoia gets me down sometimes also. I try to maintain that my glass is ½ full; but, it often seems as tho' it's ½ empty.

And DBW, the "Country" is still sufficient to be proud of... some of the folks elected/appointed to run some things leave a LOT to be desired... but... who do we blame for that? If not our collective selves, then who? And although I often think of runnin' off to live somewhere else... name me a better place, all things considered.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:02 am

On the issue of the Gun Free School Zone---CCW etc.I am calling the Pa State Police right now and am going to talk to someone in the know!!!

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:07 am

madman4570 wrote:Even if you have a CCW and are packing stay away from school zones.(1000ft from edge of school lands)if somehow you are where there is a school zone unknown to you like out of town then you are ignorant of that school being present but leave that area ASAP!

Here in the Lone Star State, a CHL-holder is only restricted from entering an actual school building. I can carry on school property but cannot walk in the door. They did this so we could pick our kids up and not be in violation of the law. In addition, any citizen can have a loaded gun in their car while on school grounds.

Scott

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:14 am

Scott,
How about Federal Law???

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:15 am

madman4570 wrote:On the issue of the Gun Free School Zone---CCW etc.I am calling the Pa State Police right now and am going to talk to someone in the know!!!

Don't talk to someone; there's absolutely no guarantee they'll know what they're talking about. Go online and read the law, yourself.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/ ... -property/

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:20 am

RSY,
Ya,I read that several times but still I am a little confused because of what just the States vs Federal and their difference of what they require,Federal also steps in and there is gray areas in the way I read it.(at least for me??)

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:26 am

RSY wrote:
madman4570 wrote:Even if you have a CCW and are packing stay away from school zones.(1000ft from edge of school lands)if somehow you are where there is a school zone unknown to you like out of town then you are ignorant of that school being present but leave that area ASAP!
Here in the Lone Star State, a CHL-holder is only restricted from entering an actual school building. I can carry on school property but cannot walk in the door. They did this so we could pick our kids up and not be in violation of the law. In addition, any citizen can have a loaded gun in their car while on school grounds.

Scott

That is also the law in Indiana... at least it is now. Dunno about the timing of the case AJ mentioned.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:29 am

madman4570 wrote:RSY,
Ya,I read that several times but still I am a little confused because of what just the states require,Federal also steps in and there is gray areas in the way I read it.(at least for me??)

I don't believe there is any Federal jurisdiction in such a situation. Firearm laws belong to the States. And, our schools are not Federal entities...yet.

Scott

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:36 am

One interesting part of the PA law is this:

"(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose."

Is not legal concealed carry for personal defense a "lawful purpose?" Hmmm...

Scott

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:46 am

I dont think it has to be a Federal entitie.

Everything I have been reading is stating (in year 2009)that it is a Federal Offense to carry a firearm into a Gun Free Zone.From what I understand the Federal Government considers all Public/Private Schools Gun Free Zones????????????????
This is just my opinion though!!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:51 am

Exceptions to the Federal "Gun Free School Zone Act"...

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
...(i) on private property not part of school grounds; (i.e your or anyone else's home)
...(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
...(iii) that is—
.....(I) not loaded; and
.....(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
...(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
...(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
...(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
...(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922(q).html

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act

AJ - if the guy was convicted prior to the 1996 reauthorization his conviction should be overturned because the 1990 law was declared Unconstitutional.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:00 am

madman4570 wrote:On the issue of the Gun Free School Zone---CCW etc.I am calling the Pa State Police right now and am going to talk to someone in the know!!!

It's an unenforceable crock of stuff. I had a cop "chat" with me once when I stopped for a red light on a state highway as it passes through town. I was carying a SA revolver in a holster (openly) while riding a motorcycle, enroute to practice for CAS. I stopped at the light, which also happens to be a cross walk in front of a school. The cop motioned me over to the side and pointed out the "gun-free" sign. I said "that's nice. Now you realize this is a state highway, and the only other road west of here is also a state highway, BOTH of em have traffic lights in front of schools. The best hunting land in the area is west of here. How many guns go by here every day during deer season?"

"I know. Just letting ya know, yer best bet is to cover it up." (hide the crime"?????)

I was tempted to say "write me up", but didn't wanna lose my CCW and a lot of money over BULL...T".

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:03 am

Ya,I know I have read that darn thing.I dont see no 1000ft from school grounds on that??????????
But say a women(that doesnt have a CCW but was shooting skeet
and has an unloaded shotgun in her back seat but not in a locked case? If she drives down the road right in front of the school is she still ok because she is not on school grounds?So many of these new things I am seeing coming up reflect this 1000ft from school grounds thing come up!

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:06 am

madman4570 wrote:I dont think it has to be a Federal entitie.
Everything I have been reading is stating (in year 2009)that it is a Federal Offense to carry a firearm into a Gun Free Zone.From what I understand the Federal Government considers all Public/Private Schools Gun Free Zones????????????????
This is just my opinion though!!

I'd call the PAFOA and ask them, if I were you. They're likely to know the law better than any State employee you may get ahold of.

Also, it looks like they have a pretty good forum on their website. You may want to join and ask your question there, too.

Scott

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:20 am

I called the Pa State police and talked to them.They were very helpful and courteous.They deal with Pa State law and couldnt say for sure about the Federal Law stuff.
So what my opinion from it is stay off School Grounds with a Firearm/for CCW and walking your dog for example at night on a sidewalk in front of a school with concealed handgun CCW should be ok(but stay off school grounds)
When traveling in a vehicle keep unloaded gun in a locked case.
But again this is State stuff /not all the Federal stuff?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:45 am

There is no 1000ft limit. None. It is NOT in the law. Neither anywhere are the word(s) "Thousand, Foot, Feet" nor the numeral 1000.

The "no possession within 1000ft" garbage comes from the equally stupid "DRUG FREE SCHOOL ZONE" bit.

It MAY have been in the Null & Void 1990 law, but it is NOT in current (1996) Federal law.

Now, OTOH if you DISCHARGE a firearm within a "School Zone", even to save a bunch of kids lives, you are probably toast unless you were standing on private property when you pulled the trigger.

Now as to what an individual STATE does... well, here is the black & white of it:

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:56 am

Ok Old Ironsights,
I think I finally get it

Thank You!! I feel much more assured now that you put it in context my DENSE head can understand(God good thing I retired, or maybe bad thing? I hope my brain isnt shrinking from lack of work??

Thanks Guy!
Sometimes it gets a little confusing living right on the border between
two states and having a home in Pa and a summer one in NY.Like with the Assault Rifle Ban,NYS still carried over many of those things.
I am ok because my HBARS are preban(93) and I only use preban mags.
Also I just found out that I can use with a limited 5rd mag my Match HBAR AR15 for Deer Hunting.(semi-auto rifles now allowed)though maybe that .223 a little light for deer,but those guns drill em with accuracy!