380 acp

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:27 am

I was kind of liking a pistol I saw (Beretta?) in this caliber. It was a good size, not too big.

How's the round?

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:52 am

El Chivo wrote: How's the round?

Very very difficult to find ammo or brass for the last 8 months.

Ed

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:54 am

Although not the first choice of many, it's done fine for me, since the early 70's.
With those, and .32 Auto's, it's more about the pistol's appeal, convenience, light weight, and speed of engagement.
I've had a .380ACP or a .32ACP with me several times, that I needed a gun - but the bigger/heavier were at home.
They were waaaay better than having just a knife, or no gun at all.

.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:49 am

El Chivo,
How about a 7.5 oz 7rd .380 (10 oz "Loaded")Keltec P3AT
I carry my Keltec P32(.32 auto) about everywhere. The (P3AT is about the same size)
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Article ... 1581&cid=5
Can be had for about $275 new,lifetime warranty!
Wife had a 84F Beretta but then starting using my P32,(less than half the weight)Now she has a P3AT(can actually carry it in her front blue jeans pocket and she hardly notices it.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:11 am

A policeman friend of mine told me that he has been real impressed with the 380. Since it has become more popular there are more shootings with it. He said every shooting he has made involving the 380 it has worked well.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:20 am

I've been carrying one in a Walther PPK for several years now. The gun is meaty enough to allow accurate shooting out some distance, as opposed to the little plastic pocket pistols that are intended more for across the table shooting.

The 380 is the minimum I feel comfortable wearing for defense. I carry 90 gr. CorBon ammo, it's supposed to be the best available for the 380 according to the shooting reports that I've seen. As already said, 380 ammo has been near impossible to buy for a while. Luckily I had layed in a large supply of brass and bullets a couple years ago for mine.

I think that round in the Beretta would be a nice one for carry.

Post by **David** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:33 am

I also don't think the 380 is a bad round but with the size of 9mm's they are making now there is little to no advantage of a 380 vs a 9mm in size of the handgun anymore. There are valid reasons why you might prefer the 380 over the 9mm, but for availability and price of ammo you just can't beat 9mm.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:42 am

Kansas Ed wrote:
El Chivo wrote: How's the round?
Very very difficult to find ammo or brass for the last 8 months.

Ed

+1 A friend purchased one last year. I asked him a couple months ago if he had been practicing, and he said he couldn't find ammunition. I called six stores the next day and the last one had some. Ran over there and purchased the last three boxes - at $30 a piece! Last year the same stuff would have been half that. Guess I got a bargain though - saw the same boxes for $75 a piece at the next gun show and people were buying them!

I sold the three boxes to my friend for what I paid for them. I have a good supply to feed mine already. This was a few months ago, but I understand that the surge in new gun sales have been disproportionately towards smaller pistols - .380 ACP's, .32 ACP's and even some .25 ACP's. The ammunition companies, already running full out to keep up with demand, were just caught flat-footed. They are trying to work in runs, but it isn't easy.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:44 am

With the current crop of expanding defensive bullets, the .380 is a decent defensive round.

And yes, you just can't find any ammo for that caliber right now...

I also have a keltek .32 - and its a better round that you would expect.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:46 am

David wrote:I also don't think the 380 is a bad round but with the size of 9mm's they are making now there is little to no advantage of a 380 vs a 9mm in size of the handgun anymore. There are valid reasons why you might prefer the 380 over the 9mm, but for availability and price of ammo you just can't beat 9mm.

+1 I like my two .380's, and like Ted, carry the PPK (mine's a FEG clone) often. However, David nailed it - you can now get 9mm's at roughly the same size, and it is a better self-defense round. Heck, for just a wee bit more in size you can get a Glock 27 (40 S&W sub-compact) or a Para P12.45 (.45 ACP) - or a J-frame .357 Magnum snub-nose. Any of these are a lot better, ballistically, than the .380 ACP. Not a ton of fun to shoot often, but for the difference in weight and size, well worth the increase in power. That being said, if you live someplace hot, like I do, a PPK in .380 ACP can be tucked away while wearing shorts and a big t-shirt with no problems. All depends on what you really need. Good luck!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:07 am

I like a ppk sized gun. Mine's a BERSA, paid $229 for it new, out the door. It has a 3.5# trigger and I shot a 25 yard 2.5" group with it. I stoke it wkith XTPs running at Corbon's velocities and consider it a valid CCW gun.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:03 pm

Really that Beretta will work fine for ya! I just have gotten used to a Tiny one for carring in the front pants pocket.I use a single piece of a cut up eel skin wallet(though cowhide is as good)placed between the gun and inside of the pants pocket.Its just the eel skin bends really easy so when you grab the gun its sqeezes down good so you get a hold of the grip fast.Whole thing with gun is only .77 thick and there is no gun outline detection visible. But this small caliber gun has its limitations and is for close encounters only! Good Luck what ever you get.Any of them are better than none!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:25 pm

+1 on the xtp, shoots great out of my locked breach Star S1.
I don't know about the Berreta, but I would shy away from blowback actions.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:36 pm

I did some expansion testing on jeans, leather, pork ribs and pork shoulder with the .380 Corbon DPX and Rem Golden saber. Not impressed.

I use Winchester White Box flat nose jacketed for my self defense. Acts like a WFN hardcast with 3/4" wound channel and way deeper penetration than the expanders.

I like my P3AT. 1500+ rounds and no FTF.

jimc · Post by **jimc** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:52 pm

I was just perusing Midway's site, and they have Privi Partizan 94-grain FMJ in stock for $15.99 (as of 2:45):

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=283576

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:57 pm

Tycer, Ya, that P3AT is unreal! Most people once they pick it up at my place get this big grin on their face and say stuff like "you have got to be kidding me,I want one".I have put over 3000 rds on my P32(no problems what so ever,just clean it once in a while)my wifes P3AT has about 1000rds no problems at all.Only thing when we first got the P3AT I thought the trigger pull was a lot rougher and took a lot more weight to fire.Talked to the Keltec Guys they said send it back.They had it 2-3 weeks, shipped it back and did a full rework/custom job on slide action/trigger.Now it feels like about a very smooth 6lbs pull/crisp and perfect before felt like a long rough 10lb pull. Huge difference. !Everything FREE, they even paid back shipping! To me and the wife its all about having them carried in our front pants pocket and actually not noticing they are even there.

I remember a lot of the older guys back 20-30 years ago used to tell me their very favorite pistol they wanted to carry was not the .45 but they "wanted the Mauser HSC" because it was so easy to carry.(I am thinking they meant while say, being on the streets in Italy etc.and not trying to use it on the fighting line!(M1 for that)

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:19 pm

Buffalo Bore Ammo is shipping their 380 ammo. I ordered from them week before last and the ammo was here in five days. They have a 380+p load that send a 90 grain bonded JHP out of a Walther PPK at 1,200 fps. Tim tests this stuff and it gives 10" of penetration. This stuff brings the 380 round into the real world and out of the mouse gun class. I carry a PPK in a Kramer pocket holster everyl time I leave the house.

Bought my first PPK (380) in 1965 and it is one gun I will never be without. This new generation of ammo just makes it better.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:25 pm

I have a Llama Minimax9, one of the new SMALL 9mm's, and yes they are as small, but it is as heavy as a full sized pistol.
The Star S1 is the same size, but much lighter.
Again, I caution against blowback pistols.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:36 pm

Wife uses a Beretta 84FB ... that's the double stack magazine version with black plastic grips. I like the gun but it does have some surprising kick for a 9mm short. I suppose that's an attribute of the blow-back action and the aluminum construction. Of course, this is with Corbon loads. It's less offensive with the Winchester practice stuff. I consider it a pretty high quality piece and I appreciate the decocking level.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:51 pm

Rimfire,
So the Barreta's ARE straight blowbacks?

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:08 pm

Many "experts" consider the .380 acp the minimum for self defense. Personally, I follow the school of thought that the first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun. To that end, I have over the years carried the following mouse guns, .22 mini revolver, .25 Berretta, .32 Seecamp & .380 AMT first generation Backup. The .32 and .380 seem to get the most use, as they are carried as backups as well as primary pistols. I've never felt undergunned. I'm not charging into a gunfight regardless of what I'm carrying. I'd prefer to just slip away unnoticed. As I've gotten older (maybe more mature too), I've learned the old say "discretion is the better part of valor" to be very true.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:55 pm

Even using premium ammo... the 380 is limited. I have carried a PPK off and on over the years... and would be pretty confident in using it from contact to maybe 15 feet.

Most informed people that carry mouse-guns have mentally resolved to expect to expend multiple rounds to end a "situation"

the berretta 84-85 is a very nice handgun... my buddy had one years ago. IMO for the size and weight one may as well buy a similar sized 9mm

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:10 pm

Excellent advice jeepnik! Those short action little pocket guns back in the day(especially the HSc) was dubbed a nickname"the typewriter"because of how fast you can get off say 7 or 8rds of .32 auto. Thats a lot of holes to try and plug up in your chest in about 2 seconds or less.Dont think you would feel much like fighting!
Helped an uncle butcher a beef on his farm back in the 80s.Remember he had this BIG Beefer that he walked up to the front/side part of his barn to get ready to kill it. I was waiting for him to get his rifle from the milkhouse and all of a sudden he pulled out his HSc and put a FMJ round right in the forehead.It was dead when it dropped on its knees right then,and it just fell sideways dead. I thought right then and there,wow them little guns can really do a job!

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:16 pm

An old police officer friend of mine once said about his .25acp back up gun.

"if it ever gets down to this ( his .25) he's gonna have 5 or 6 holes in him while i
beat the 'snot' out of him."

I carry my .25 when I can't hide the 9mm. I had a PPK. Wish I hadn't sold it. Was an
excellent shooter.

jb

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:19 am

If I was going to carry a PPK sized gun, I would probably choose something other than .380. However, as others have said, with modern ammo it can be an effective caliber. I carry it in the Ruger LCP, like the P3AT, about as small and light as you can get and even with the miniscule sights mine will group in 2-3 inches at 7 to 10yds.

BlueStateSaint · Post by **BlueStateSaint** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:42 am

My brother-in-law just bought a Ruger LCP in .380. It's small.

And, here's a back-up/off-duty gun for ya: The last I knew, the New York State Police issued Bereta 21s--in .22 LR--to the troopers for use as a back-up/off-duty weapon.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:05 am

That Ruger LCP would really fit the bill also.With the Buffalo Bore HC 100 gr at 1110.4 fps that is a really great little gun. Its the next one on my list! http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCP.htm El Chivo before you buy at least just pickup the Ruger or Kel-tec, you will be amazed and I think you will be likely to carry the gun much more!

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:06 am

A word about the Walter PPK. I started with the PPK in the mid-60s when it and the Smith Chief's Special were about the only quality small pistols about. I found I could shoot the PPK with much better results than the J frame Smiths. The fixed barrel makes these Walters very accurate and I can knock down 6" falling plates with the PPK at 50 feet without any problems.

Today there is a much better variety of "pocket pistols" than we had 45 years ago. The only time I had to call on a pistol in situation with a fellow who pulled a knife on me, it was 1974 the the pistol was the PPK loaded with 90 grain Super-Vel ammo.

I carry the PPK because I have confidence in it and can shoot it well. I can't say the same about most of the later generation light weight pocket pistols. Yesterday I fired a fellows light weight (Scandium) 2" bbl Smith 357 Magnum and couldn't hit "Jack" with it. I pulled out my Walter and cleaned the range with it.

For me the PPK is "small enought, and "light enough", and "accurate enough" and "powerful enough" to get me home. The long and short is I trust these pistols and that is the most important thing a fellow can have in a defensive pistol.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:11 am

Grizzly Cartridge Co. has just finished their Exteme Line of carry ammo with the "Tarantula" Bullet. The little 380 Tarantula opens up to over 7/8 inch diameter with 4 cutting petals. It meets all the FBI test standards. I think this round takes the 380 to a new level not previously available. It is certainly the biggest potential wound you can cause with any 380 pistol round.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:06 pm

Well,
I googled Grizzly Cartridge & Tarantula but can't seem to find anything, the web site concentrates on thier heavy stuff.
Any suggestions?

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:25 pm

Call Grizzly at 503 556-3006 for info or ordering. They are updating their web-site and changing companies and from my understanding it has been a painful process. Here is what the Tarantulas do :

Mike Rintoul · Post by **Mike Rintoul** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:30 pm

Call me about the 380's - I have them ready but none went out yet. 86er and Ricky nicknamed them, we never intended to call them Tarantulas, but it does have a nice ring to it. These bullets are featured in our "Extreme" line of ammo right now in 9mm, 40S&W, 45 ACP, 38 SPL, 357 Mag, 44 Spl, 44 Mag and .380 ACP. Coming soon in other caliber, particularly 45 Colt. The wound channels are incredible and the penetration is designed to get through the vitals on a human but not necessarily exit.

(503) 556-3006
M-F 8-5 PST

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:35 pm

Wow,
The owner responding to a post, the man IS involved.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:16 am

Mike is very responsive. I need to work up an order myself SOON!

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:04 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Rimfire,
So the Barreta's ARE straight blowbacks?

I believe so. I need to take that 84 down and see if there's a barrel pivot to be sure. But I believe that those 380's (and the equivalent Brownings) are blow-back actions.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:01 pm

I carry a PPKs that was made by S&W and worked over by Cylinder and Slide. I like the S&W Walthers because they have a longer beavertail and don't bite. Several companies make defensive ammo for the .380. They due speak with authority with the new ammo. I have had several .380s over the years including AMT, Beretta, Bersa, etc. You want a double single action. You don't want to count on a flimsy safety to be safe with a single action. I didn't care for the Bersa.

Dave

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:19 pm

I disagree Dave, the safety on my S1 is very positive, if anything I wish it were a little more user friendly.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:40 pm

We have a Star SS at the shop. The safety is positive like the Colt 1911. I like it. If I hadn't just committed my money to other things

I'd have bought it.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:47 pm

I like the Star guns,I have a 16 shot 31P 9mm,Safety pushes up to fire,very positive.That gun is built like a tank! Very accurate!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:51 pm

In the wondernine catagory, I think that is in the upper catagory.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:18 pm

My comment on the safety was about my experience with an older Beretta model 70s .380 I had. The safety was weak and easily stripped out. That isn't something you would want to happen when the gun is cocked and it is in your pocket. That gun was a single action. With a double single action such a Walther you can decock it with a round in the chamber and be perfectly safe. The first shot has a double action trigger pull but after that it is single action with a good trigger pull (after some tuning of the trigger). As I said, I wasn't impressed with the Bersa I had and I traded it quickly. The new defensive ammo does kick and I like the weight of the Walther to.

Dave

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:36 pm

with the keltec pf9 and their .32's, i can't see a need for the .380. if i already owned a .380, i'm sure it would work well. but the pf 9 is so close in size to a .380, and a keltec out of a .32, can't be that differeent than a .380 powerwise to matter, unless you like to split hairs. sounds like a keltec commercial

. just my 2 cents.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:40 pm

Ahhhhhh, OK, I understand, I would not want to live with situation either.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:12 pm

tman, its kills me to say because my favorite little carry gun is the Kel-Tec P32. But that .380 is a BIG difference to the .32 Auto. 50% more bullet weight/much bigger bullet Diameter with about same velocity.Given that you can get it in Kel-Tec P3AT(only "6 tenths of 1 ounce" more than the P32)that is remarkable.Also that new Ruger LCP weighs only 9.4 Oz. These in my opinion are the best in carry guns!(no excuse not to have that in your pocket etc.)
7 rounds of that new Grizzly Tarantula stuff should do the job!
Next on my list of guns!