do you think there is enough new cartridges?

a357lever · Post by **a357lever** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:15 pm

I am goin nuts federal,ruger,remington,winchester,hornady man how many new rounds do we need i would say the ammo shortage makes me think what if i can't find ammo after dumping a lot of money on a new rifle i find most of these new rounds can basically be duplicated with any of the oldies but goodies. I mean 300 Remington short copying the 300 win short mag. with there own very stupid. I think its gone overboard. What do you think?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:27 pm

There's very little designed in the last 20 or 30 years that actually fills a vacant nitch. Most of it just a gimmick to get sales up.
I don't fall for that kind of marketing.

The newest cartridge I own a rifle for is the 7.62 NATO. I have little interest in any newer rifle rounds. There are a few of the newer handgun rounds that fill nitches, but not many.

Joe

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:07 pm

Come to think of it Joe, I really think my "newest" caliber must be .357 for the S&W 65 and the Rossi carbine. The rest go back from there to 1873 for the .45Colt and 45-70 Govt.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:39 pm

Jerry,

Yeah, same here sorta.

.45 Colt = 1873
.45 ACP = 1911?
38 Special = ?
.357 Mag = 1935 or 1937 can't remember
.30-30 = 1895
.303 Brit = 1888
.30-06 = 1906
7.62 NATO 1952 or so.
.22 LR = ?
.22 Mag = 1956?

The funny thing is, the ones I shoot the most of are the oldest ones.

jjames · Post by **jjames** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:08 pm

I have no issue with all the new cartridges. Companies have to doing something to generate business and they certainly aren't forcing anyone to buy them. I would be pretty bored if all that was available were 30-06, 12 ga., 22LRs, and 45 LCs but what more do you need to poke holes in paper, break skeet, and take North American game.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:24 pm

I'd be happy with a 348 Win. But nobody is making them . Used ones aren't really affordable. So the 338MX does fill that nich in a levergun. Yes a 358 BLR would work also. But have you looked at the prices of BLR's latey. They are pushing $700. My 338MX was $530. I'm very happy with it. But I shoot old cartridges and most new ones don't interest me . But the 338 MX bit me.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:35 pm

I'll bet it sure makes for a challenge for the gun shops to stock decent inventory!

I do have HandiRifles in 500 S&W, and .17 HMR, and a Contender in .357 Max, which are all "new", but all three are single shot breakopen guns I shoot few rounds through. When it comes to the "meat & potatoes" of shooting, . 22 LR, a medium and big 'pointy-bullet' round for rifles, and a medium and big 'stubby' round for carbines and handguns, and a big 'stubby' round for heavy rifles pretty much fills the niches.

i.e. respectively, .22 LR, .223, .30-06, .32-20, .44 Mag, .45-70 - add a 12 gauge shotgun and you're set.

(actually, maybe .25-35 instead of .223, and .44-40 instead of .44 Mag, if you like everything hyphenated

)

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:44 pm

I'm happy with 45ACP, 45LC, 45-70, 348,and 7-30Waters, though I would like a 32SPL and 307WIN someday. I don't see me personally needing any of the newer offerings, when I still have the hopes of adding a few more older Winchesters to my safe if time and good fortune allows.

Thanks,

Dave B

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:46 pm

I think there are enough old cartridges!

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:54 pm

Did somone say "Re-invent the Wheel"

^
7

Whats "needed" .22 rimfire .223 25/06 .338 and a shotgun your choice of Ga.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:01 pm

I agree, there are enough old cartridges.

Have you ever seen RCBS`s custom die availability list? It is several pages of fine print!

One each (gun) of every one of those calibers would round out my collection nicely.

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:08 pm

I have a .40 cal pistol for concealed carry, sort of new round, a Ruger .480 caliber Puma, a sort of new cartridge that is gasping for air and on life support, and everything else is something that has been around for 50 years or more. I like that .480 Ruger as it carries a heavy load at a moderate to slow velocity, it is accurate, and the bullets are the same as for a .475 Linebaugh. If one of the new cartridges fills a need for you as the .480 Ruger did for me, then by all means get it and have fun. Let the marketplace sales decide.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:14 pm

As the creator of a new cartridge (very new, as in 2006), and the first wildcat straight-walled, rimmed pistol round to go "commercial" (properly headstamped brass, available to the public) that was NOT designed to sell new guns since early in the last century, I have a strong opinion on this. EVERY cartridge ever made was once NEW. .45 ACP was once new, .30-06 was once new, etc. The market decides what is worth having. I was told I'd never sell the first 50K of brass I ordered 3 1/2 years ago. I'm closer to half a million sold now, and new customers contact me very frequently. Rifles have been converted to use the round, etc. It's a tiny enterprize by any standard, but it's something I did, and succeeded at it, when MAJOR MAKERS have tried and failed...... If the market finds it useful, interesting or fun, it'll sell. That is the ONLY criteria that matters.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:43 pm

OK, I'll bite, what was the cartridge?

86er · Post by **86er** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:49 pm

I think there are many new cartridges that don't do anything new. In particular, the short mags and the Ruger Compact Mag are just about exact duplicates of standard length cartridges that have been donig the job for years. What I am enthused about is the revival of some OLD cartridges like the 450 N.E., 450-400 3", 404 Jeffrey, 9.3X74R with a US loading and same for 9.3X62, the 7X64 Brenekke. These old warriors are as good as ever but modern ammunition availability and components to reload make them much more practical now than at any time in the last 50 or more years.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:58 pm

IMO, the last new cartridge introduce which actually filled a need was the .41 Magnum bck in 1964. Now I realize that a good case can be made for the .454 Casull, but it really doesn't do a lot that could not be done hot rodding the .45 Long Colt.

Personally, I've greeted the large flock of new cartridges introduced in the last few years with a determined "Ho-Hum," They just don't interest me. They do nothing that can't be done with a .358 Winchester, .308 Winchester, .375 Holland & Holland Magnum, .30-'06 Springfield or .45-70. They don't kill deer, buffalo, or elephant any deader, and with my eyes the added range is wasted. i'll stick with the oldtimers and let the youngsters play with the newest, fastest, biggest Eargeersplittenloudengoboomer Ultra-hort Super--Long Magnum to hit the market.

86er and I can be happily retro.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:13 pm

mescalero1 wrote:OK, I'll bite, what was the cartridge?

It's the Cowboy45Special. Basically a 45ACP with a 45 Colt rim. For use by the cowboy gamesters.
Here's A-Jacks web site: http://www.cowboy45special.com/index.html

JOe

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:55 pm

Doc Hudson wrote:IMO, the last new cartridge introduce which actually filled a need was the .41 Magnum bck in 1964. Now I realize that a good case can be made for the .454 Casull, but it really doesn't do a lot that could not be done hot rodding the .45 Long Colt.

Personally, I've greeted the large flock of new cartridges introduced in the last few years with a determined "Ho-Hum," They just don't interest me. They do nothing that can't be done with a .358 Winchester, .308 Winchester, .375 Holland & Holland Magnum, .30-'06 Springfield or .45-70. They don't kill deer, buffalo, or elephant any deader, and with my eyes the added range is wasted. i'll stick with the oldtimers and let the youngsters play with the newest, fastest, biggest Eargeersplittenloudengoboomer Ultra-hort Super--Long Magnum to hit the market.

86er and I can be happily retro.

Amen!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:00 pm

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:12 pm

Kind of looks like the 45 Autorim.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:18 pm

I was'nt going to say anything............................

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:33 pm

Gun Smith wrote:Kind of looks like the 45 Autorim.

Sorta, but not quite. Cowboy .45 Special has got exactly the same rim as .45 Colt, so it can be used in .45 Colt revolvers without modification (and in Marlin and toggle link rifles with mods). >45 Autorim requires you to cut the back of the cylinders to shoot em out of .45 Colt revolvers (a decidedly one way proposition rendering the gun unable to use .45 Colt). The idea is to allow .45 ACP accuracy (lower case capacity) at target levels, a weakness Venturino points out very aptly of the .45 Colt. My round makes em competitve with .38s, and accurate at bullseye round levels.

In any event, the post was meant to demonstrate that YES, sometimes new rounds, though obscure, though weak in the advertizing and marketing department (I got ZERO play from any gun rags,. etc), can still fill a niche..... Lots of the wildcats and some of the new commercial offeriongs are nothing more than pipe dreams that didn't pan out. But they sometimes do (tholugh the deck is stacked, trust me, as shooters are glacially slow to adopt "new" stuff. How many consider the .41 mag "new"? How about the .40 S&W? Some consider anything newer than the .44 mag an "upstart".....)

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:03 am

+1000
I was just thinking that the other day....every one thinks you need a super mag to shoot rabbits I read an article in a Australian hunting mag that said 308win is
inadequate for medium game in this country....wish I new that before I shot all those things you cant kill with a 308

I just lost all my time for that guy
by the way 308win is the newest round i have anything chambered in to

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:01 am

I kind of have to agree when did the whitetail deer become armor plated. I keep hearing that the 30-30, 308, ect,ect isn't a good deer round anymore. Anybody want to guess how many whitetail have fallen to a thurty thurty. How about elk hunting you can't shoot elk with an 06 "it isn't enough gun" uhh balderdash. The one I whacked was DRT with a 180 grain bullet but I think I might do things a little different ..if I see a animal a ways off I uhhh what is the term ..Oh yeah, stalk it's part of hunting. I was watching a guy on the sportsman channel last night and he was proud as he could be about shooting a muliea at 725 yards. Lazy, unethical, bastach. I would NEVER try to shoot that far at a game animal. Did he hit it yeap DRT but what about next time. I lived and hunted in Elk and griz coutry and din't feel underguned with an -06, but I don't get paid to write about such stuff so I prolly don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry for the rant!
22lr
30-30
33wcf
35 rem
308
30-06
223
7.62x54
8mm
303
270
300 sav
45-70
44 spc
44 mag
32
38
357
45acp

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:11 am

Somebody said it on another thread: "Many people spend too much time reading and not enough time shooting." Or something to that effect.

I think that's true.

Personally I think all the gun manufacturers are struggling to stay afloat, so they have to try things. But IMO they are doing the wrong things. Instead of always introducing something "New and Improved" they really need to clean up and improve the existing products.

JMHO

Joe

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:33 am

we could have stopped offering new cartridges around 1936... the 357 magnum would have been the only thing I'd "miss" if they started sooner.

Observation: all the "old time" cartridge developments were hastened by "shooters" who happened to be gun writters. Now days ... the new rounds come from a marketing manager who can get nice things written if he gives enough nice stuff to a guy who writes about guns.

Keith, Skelton, Jordan, McGivern were all the real deal.

jlchucker · Post by **jlchucker** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:48 am

kaschi wrote:I think there are enough old cartridges!

Me too. And plenty of them.

jlchucker · Post by **jlchucker** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:52 am

fordwannabe wrote:I kind of have to agree when did the whitetail deer become armor plated. I keep hearing that the 30-30, 308, ect,ect isn't a good deer round anymore. Anybody want to guess how many whitetail have fallen to a thurty thurty. How about elk hunting you can't shoot elk with an 06 "it isn't enough gun" uhh balderdash. The one I whacked was DRT with a 180 grain bullet but I think I might do things a little different ..if I see a animal a ways off I uhhh what is the term ..Oh yeah, stalk it's part of hunting. I was watching a guy on the sportsman channel last night and he was proud as he could be about shooting a muliea at 725 yards. Lazy, unethical, bastach. I would NEVER try to shoot that far at a game animal. Did he hit it yeap DRT but what about next time. I lived and hunted in Elk and griz coutry and din't feel underguned with an -06, but I don't get paid to write about such stuff so I prolly don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry for the rant!
22lr
30-30
33wcf
35 rem
308
30-06
223
7.62x54
8mm
303
270
300 sav
45-70
44 spc
44 mag
32
38
357
45acp

Good Rant! You don't need to apologize, at least not to me. I feel exactly the same way, and my list would be about the same.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:53 pm

Thanks, I realized after I sent it I forgot a couple calibers but 7.62x39 and 40 S&W might be too new. I would like to say in response to Hillbilly's post, I think Glen Fryxell, Mike Venturino and our own Paco follow in the tradition of the guys who are shooters that happen to write about it, and much praise to each for actually doing it not just writing about it. tom

hocbj23 · Post by **hocbj23** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:52 pm

.22,.32,.38,.380,.38 Super,.45 in handguns,12 ga in shotgun,.218 Bee,.25-20,.32-20,.30-30,.38-40,.44-40 in leverguns and my "newest" is a SP101 in .327 mag for concealed carry.I guess I like the oldies(with hyphens) best as well.bj

a357lever · Post by **a357lever** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:28 pm

yea i really ment rifle but u have a good point 22lr, 12ga, 357carb, 308, 223 --- 380, 38/357, 40sw 7.62x25, 9mm p38

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:24 pm

What disappoints me is the emphasis on designing new cartridges to fit existing gun designs, and not enough interest in designing new guns or improving older designs for more modern cartridges or cartridges to "hot" for antique designs. Take for example Dick Casull and his development of the 454 Casull. He kept loading his 45 Colt until he broke the guns. But instead of backing off on pressure and load, he went the other direction and built a better, stronger gun. I've always admired him for that. And as a DIRECT result we have the Freedom Arms revolver. Wouldn't it be nice if someone did the same thing, and showed the same level of commitment with a levergun?

-Tutt

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:27 pm

Nothing was necessary after the 6mm Rem, 300/338/458 Win Mag.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:48 pm

You been kind of quiet,
and closed minded.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:43 pm

Nothing was necessary after the 6mm Rem, 300/338/458 Win Mag.

Except they have not been chambered in leverguns with the exception of the 300 which I think has been available in the BLR. I like bolt guns just fine. Good for target shooting in particular, but hard to beat a lever or pump gun for follow-up shots.

-Tutt

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:01 am

I would like to see manufactures(Winchester Marlin) chamber rounds like 32-20,25-20,38-40,32-40,25-35,30-30,
32winspl,33win,45colt,45-70 and alot of others that i can not think of right now . I personly think thay should just
go back to making good quality firearms that aren't lawyer'd up function properly have good fit and finish and thay
would be fine......hope thay see this

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:29 am

I'll agree that I don't have much time for most of the recent cartridges that have come out. 3 exceptions I can think of are :

The .17 HMR rimfire. The ultimate rimfire gopher slayer IMO. Doesn't increase the size of game that you can use a rimfire on but extends the range by plenty on small critters.

the .17 Rem Fireball. If I were to chose one caliber for Spot'n'Stalk fox hunting this would be it. Too bad there isn't enough fox around here anymore to justify a purchase.

The .327 Federal Mag. I like the .32 H&R mag and as a handloader I can push it far beyond factory loading in my Ruger. But the H&R Mag was being held back in factory loadings due to the older and/or weaker revolvers (H&R, Heritage) chambered in it. Now we truly have factory .32 mag loadings with some punch that exceeds the .32-20 and the .32 H&R. I reload and shoot Rugers so I will never buy one though. Well, maybe if Marlin comes out with a 1894 .327 that will also shoot my H&R loads!!.

LK

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:40 am

CowboyTutt wrote:What disappoints me is the emphasis on designing new cartridges to fit existing gun designs, and not enough interest in designing new guns or improving older designs for more modern cartridges or cartridges to "hot" for antique designs. Take for example Dick Casull and his development of the 454 Casull. He kept loading his 45 Colt until he broke the guns. But instead of backing off on pressure and load, he went the other direction and built a better, stronger gun. I've always admired him for that. And as a DIRECT result we have the Freedom Arms revolver. Wouldn't it be nice if someone did the same thing, and showed the same level of commitment with a levergun? -Tutt

That's for sure.

One problem (for the manufacturers) is that guns really DO last a long time, so they get handed down intergenerationally, and so they have to try to make us THINK there's a reason we need 'more gun' than grandpa's .30-30 or whatever it is. Instead of just new cartridges, truly novel gun designs would be of interest, and there have been a few. Many of them flop, though, which is the risk they take.

I can see a totally NEW shooter getting into say, the short magnums, the .40 S&W and so on, if they didn't have other guns or reloading stuff to start with. Why not? For the rest of us, it would mean rendering useless or duplicate all our other equipment for very little gain. So eventually there may be a generation of shooters who is using all the cartridges created in the last 20 years, and sees no need for any others. The only real problem I have with that is that I don't want to start having to search for that 'rare' .308 Win or 'scarce' .44 Mag brass. It's bad enough trying to find .32-20 or .35 Remington or 6mm Remington brass.

shdwlkr · Post by **shdwlkr** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:25 am

Funny after reading the posts here I just realized that the newest round I have is the 375 winchester a now defunct round. All the others are much older.
I haven't seen a new caliber that I need or is any real difference in what I use.
As to shooting game anything over 300 yards means you don't know how to hunt and therefore you need a cannon to shoot the game. Any PH who says that shooting long range is a good thing I would have to question his real skill in getting the hunter close to the game.
I would rather pass a shot then wound and animal that I might not even know I hit and never find. Just me but I always thought hunting meant you got as close as you could so the animal died fast little suffering but I guess if you have a big caliber magnum they fall over from freight at a thousand yards, so that is good as it saves you money on those $4.00 cartridges and there is no bullet hole to look for.

two bit okie · Post by **two bit okie** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:35 pm

I have 3 centerfire calibers, 30-06, 44 mag, 45 auto. the puppy of the groupe is 5 decades old. the other two are both a century old. There is nothing out there less than 50 yrs old that will fill any niche that I have.

wm · Post by wm » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:29 pm

Hell yeah!

The newest cartridge on my ammo shelves or in my reloading dies is the 223 and that dates back to the early 60's!

Wm

a357lever · Post by **a357lever** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:32 pm

i ask because ruger asked for comments on there site and i told them stop with the new cartridges, whatever that 30 cal and 375
they really don't do anything better than existing calibers. And they spend money developing these things so they can have there name on it ie: 45gap, the 40sw, 45acp just as good or close enough right

why don't they make there offerings for less money instead of wasting money reinventing.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:11 pm

I'm sure they are just trying to invent new cartridges that are as powerful as older cartridges but do not require the same amount of case volume because of newer powders or bullet designs. There is certainly something to be said for this. I realize this is a mature board, but the current market has little to no interest in obsolete cartridges. It is sad, but there is just too little market share for such chamberings. I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, and I mean no offense, but the younger shooters wants more "modern" and "powerful" cartridges that use less overall cartridge volume, use a shorter stroke and work just as well or better.

I'm sort of caught in between generations for this board being younger than most, and older than just a small few. I can understand both sides of the argument.

I think it is best for those wanting "obsolete" cartridges that they buy an older, maybe "antique" gun. Older guns have a history and appearance that many new buyers pay companies good money to reproduce (see Cimarron Firearms). These older guns have a wood-to-metal fit and finish that is hard to beat.

But I think the industry as a whole has to modernize the levergun to shoot the new cartridges or risk extinction.

-Tutt

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:03 am

Tutt's right, new products make the world go around. Where would the industry be if there was only one caliber, and we only had 2 or 3 guns at the most?

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:33 am

There are WAY too many “new cartridges” – and I absolutely REFUSE to “get on board” with any of them… Why – none of them do anything that firmly established cartridges already do.

I simply won’t buy any gun that I think will become “cartridge obsolete” in less than 20 years.. Case in point - who's gonna think that ".45gap" is gonna be selling off the shelf ten years from now???

The truth is that gun-makers try and introduce new calibers to get people (who already own a boat-load of guns) to buy yet another one. I’m pretty confident that I’m on the right track since the bulk of the guns that I want are offered in the calibers that I demand.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:46 am

I like the rounds I like. Have I had other chamberings? Yeap got rid of what I didn't like kept what I did. This whole idea can be summed up in one thought can anybody remember the electric fired remingtons from a few years ago? It was gonna be the wave of the future...UH huh. I don't think I will have trouble finding 45-70(also used to make my 33 WCF rounds) 44mag, or 30-06 cases in my lifetime(barring Washingtons intervention). Are you sure your 600whizeerbangersupermagnumwhitetailassasin will be available by the time your kid is ready to be thrown to the ground by his deer gun. The only saving grace is that people read the gun rags and trade in granpa's old levergun on a new 1000yardsuperboomer, and it let's us get after'em. I know lots of guys around here who are trading in levers and bolt guns to get AR platform stuff and whenever I can I try to stimulate the economy by saving the oldies. Tom

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:28 am

The newest round I have is the .375 Winchester. While it can duplicate the .38-55, it also out-performs that old cartridge handily.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:29 am

Its really hard to predict what cartridges are going to make it, and which ones won't. The 358 Win is still hanging in there and being chambered in new rifles, but factory ammo is scarce. The 38-55 is experiencing a resurgence using heavier bullets and faster twist rates in guns from Pedersoli. Obviously the 45-70, 30-06 and 44 Mag are not going anywhere. Too many guns sold chambered in those cartridges and still currently in production. Still useful too. But some of the BP cartridges that have been out of production for a while and ammunition is not available or chamberings discontinued by the rifle manufacturer in the past for lack of sales: those are hard to justify bringing back unless there was enough demand to do so. It seems some of the new 17 caliber rounds have been successful. Some of the new compact cartridges in 338 look very promising. I'm a little surprised the 450 Marlin is still with us. Its not enough to be a good cartridge. It has to sell!

-Tutt

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:02 pm

.40s&w in a handgun. .356wcf. IN A MODEL 94. other than that , they are all rehashes of something we already have.

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:49 am

I don't know, some are fun - the .204 Ruger is so dang cute! I just love the way I can see the legs fly off a sage rat when the bullet impacts.

Marlin's .308 and .338 Marlin Express cartridges make a bit of sense given the Hornady squishy tip bullets. Probably will outlast the .307 Winchester. Then there's the .444 Marlin. I had one, really liked it, sorry I sold it off. It's been around awhile, being usefull, but will never replace the .30-30.

The .450 Marlin made no sense except to the lawyers trying to keep from blowing up Trapdoor Springfield's. Even loaded down, the old .45-70 is no slouch. I love the .45-70, it's so yesterday.

The .375 Ruger is a good one, it duplicates my wildcat .375 Epstein Magnum, if you don't mind triggering off 4,500+ ft lbs of energy and 70 pounds of recoil next to your sensitive brain. Always get a mild concussion shooting that thing. The .460 Weatherby is out of the question - ouch.

Then there is the .348 Winchester and the Model 71. That thing looks like a rifle, a real man's rifle. Mine shoots well enough, but there is a dearth of bullets for it. Built another necked up to .35 caliber with the body blown out to Ackley's 40 degree shoulder. Some delusional yahoo at Browning or FN, or whoever owns Winchester this week should reintroduce the cartridge necked down to .338. Maybe chamber it in a nice Japanese or Chinese investment cast clone of the M-71 with a walnut colored birch stock.

I would like to see some of the old cartridges come back. What ever happened to the .405 Winchester that Hornady was cranking out? How about a .40-72 in a lever?

New is good, but old is too. And yes, Virginia, there are too many new cartridges.