GunBroker win 71 question

[big bear]

GunBROKER #137914289 SHOWS A WIN71, NOT DRILLED FOR RECEIVER SIGHTS, SELLER SAYS SHORT TANG. SN25539. IS THIS A SHORT TANG RIFLE, LONG TANG OR WHAT SOMEONE AROUND HERE CALLS A TRANSISTION RIFLE. NOT interested in buying(no money, couldn't bid if I wanted, etc) just curious. Sorry about the caps but my dog's long nose got involved in the typing, excuse please.Just wanted to stir up some discussion about my favorite gun topic, the 71

[1886]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =137914289

[mod71alaska]

GunBROKER #137914289 SHOWS A WIN71, NOT DRILLED FOR RECEIVER SIGHTS, SELLER SAYS SHORT TANG. SN25539. IS THIS A SHORT TANG RIFLE, LONG TANG OR WHAT SOMEONE AROUND HERE CALLS A TRANSISTION RIFLE. NOT interested in buying(no money, couldn't bid if I wanted, etc) just curious. Sorry about the caps but my dog's long nose got involved in the typing, excuse please.Just wanted to stir up some discussion about my favorite gun topic, the 71

Don, that's sure a short tang Deluxe Model 71. 1947 is a little late for what I would call a "transition 71," although that's in fact what it is. I'd call it a "clean up 71." Back then Winchester was notorious for cleaning up old parts by using them on newer models after the old models were long discontinued. For example, I have an original near mint condition 1947 Model 62. Yes a 1947 Model 62, even though the Model 62 was discontinued in 1940 or '41 when the Winchester introduced the Model 62A to replace it. My Model 62 made in 1947 has the correct earlier Model 62 barrel (and barrel stampings) and 62 receiver/tang assembly, not those for the 62A. Go figure!

What are your 71 hunting plans for this fall up there in BC? Are you going to put a big bear in your sights?

[Lastmohecken]

Yes, I believe it's a short tang, and probably came from the factory as you see it with the open iron sights. It's a pretty nice looking gun, but has a few scratches. I don't think it's worth $3,800, but might be worth $2,800 to $3,000.

I did think they were all drilled and tapped for a side mount recever sight, but maybe not. I am going to go check my 1937 long tang and see if was drilled and tapped.

[Lastmohecken]

Yep, even my 1937 was drilled and tapped, but then again, I don't know if was done at the factory, but it has filler screws in it, and they look factory. And since the rifle pictured on Gunbroker has deluxe wood, it seems odd that it would not be drilled and tapped.

[Gun Smith]

My 1941 Deluxe 20,000 serial number range is not drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. But it was milled for the bolt peep. I added the replica bolt peep after I bought it.

[brucew44guns]

Anyone who ever went into the big woods of Oregon, and had hopes of a nice Mule deer, or an elk, always knew the rifle would do it's job, if it was a model 71. Something about the feel of one, the heft, and the sure knowledge that the round is lethal on that kind of game, made things interesting. Too bad in a way, that Winchester didn't turn out a couple hundred thousand of them before they worried about losing money, more guys could have an original that way. I'll never part with mine, that's for sure.

[WinM71]

Don,
My 1941 deluxe, 20xxx, is a "transition", so called because it has the short tang but still has the hammer with the fine knurling instaed of the later "serrated" hammer. Note that the Gunbroker 25xxx also has the knurled hammer, so it's a "transition" piece as well. Looks like the transition took a few years.

[big bear]

I knew I would learn something.Thanks for the info. Mod71alaska, I've booked two weks off for a mule deer hunt in November. I have some 4 day stretches scattered through the fall to go to my mountain hideout, there are seasons there for mule deer, white tail, mose, elk and if a color phase black gets in my way , he'll be coming home with me. I've got a couple of big Island black bear rugs and can't justify another.Plus my wife's not too partial to bear meat.WinM71 I would sure like to find something in prnt about these transition 71's ,do you know of a source. I got into 71's after reading some articles about it sitting in my mountain cabin watching a big bear grazing on my front lawn, got me thinking! I have a Deluxe 71 with a grip cap that does not have the have the Winchester logo on it. Has anyone ever seen that, It is a last year production rifle , everything else on it is Kosher. Got it from the son of the original owner, who died shortly after getting it, along with a box of ammo 4 rounds fired. I shot a about 60 rounds through it before I thought better of it and stated looking for a using grade 71.

[WinM71]

Don,
I'm not sure that there's any "singe source" for info on the classic 71s. I got a lot of it from articles in Rifle (and some in handloader) over the years. Typically, what I'd say makes a "transition" specimen is the short tang with the finely knurled hammer and the early-style mellower "rust" blue, as opposed to the later, somewhat darker/shinier, hot-tank type of blue. Once it goes to hot-tank blue and the serrated hammer, it's a "late model".

[big bear]

Any thoughts on the plain grip cap?

[71fan]

The transition rifles have a finer checkering patten as well. 24 lpi for long tang and transition, and 20 lpi for short tang. Actually, my transition had slightly finer/nicer checkering than any of the three LTs I've owned.

On a transition you find the short tang, the checkered hammer, and finer checkering on the stocks. I didn't know about the different bluing though. I'll have to look into that.

The rifle in question is indeed a cleanup rifle - a very late transition. Of most interest is that it has the later 20 lpi on the forend and the earlier 24 lpi on the PG. I haven't seen that before. Perhaps one of the pieces of wood has been switched out. I would think the checkering would have occured after the wood was fitted to the rifle, in which case the same lpi would be used on each piece.

The D&T on the receivers started in late '47 to early '48.

[71fan]

Any thoughts on the plain grip cap?

The grip cap looks correct to me. What do you mean?

[big bear]

Any thoughts on the plain grip cap?

The grip cap looks correct to me. What do you mean?

The grip cap to which I refer is the one on MY Model 71. It is a late production ( last 1-2years) Deluxe Model, bought from son of owner who shot it four times, put it in closet, then was never well enough to use again. The grip cap looks like regular ones but no Winchester etc on it.Rifle is as new( till I shot it )

[Kansas Ed]

Any thoughts on the plain grip cap?

The grip cap looks correct to me. What do you mean?

The grip cap to which I refer is the one on MY Model 71. It is a late production ( last 1-2years) Deluxe Model, bought from son of owner who shot it four times, put it in closet, then was never well enough to use again. The grip cap looks like regular ones but no Winchester etc on it.Rifle is as new( till I shot it )

I'm confused...the GB rifle has the Winchester logo on the grip cap. Am I missing your inference? The different LPI on the checkering smells of rebuild though. The transition period was also between serials 12,500 and 17,000 so this gun built in 1947 was 6 years after the end of the transition? I wouldn't buy it.

Ed

[71fan]

Any thoughts on the plain grip cap?

The grip cap looks correct to me. What do you mean?

The grip cap to which I refer is the one on MY Model 71. It is a late production ( last 1-2years) Deluxe Model, bought from son of owner who shot it four times, put it in closet, then was never well enough to use again. The grip cap looks like regular ones but no Winchester etc on it.Rifle is as new( till I shot it )

OH I got it now.
I would guess the original got cracked and a replacement put on. I've seen repors at at least one of the Winny parts guys websites, but it was a few years ago and I can't remember who. Maybe check with Winchester Bob and go from there.

[71fan]

Any thoughts on the plain grip cap?

The grip cap looks correct to me. What do you mean?

The grip cap to which I refer is the one on MY Model 71. It is a late production ( last 1-2years) Deluxe Model, bought from son of owner who shot it four times, put it in closet, then was never well enough to use again. The grip cap looks like regular ones but no Winchester etc on it.Rifle is as new( till I shot it )

I'm confused...the GB rifle has the Winchester logo on the grip cap. Am I missing your inference? The different LPI on the checkering smells of rebuild though. The transition period was also between serials 12,500 and 17,000 so this gun built in 1947 was 6 years after the end of the transition? I wouldn't buy it.

Ed

I've always gone off the assumption that the transitions went into the 22,000s, or about 1942, until they stopped production for the war. HOWEVER...now that you mention it I've yet to see one above 17,500. Like you, I am wary of this rifle.

The stock switch happens frequently, I suspect. If a guy has a standard with nice bluing and a cut or damaged stock, he can look for a deluxe with a damaged (drilled) or worn receiver but otherwise good wood and make himself a decent high condition deluxe. I've think this happens more that we'd like to think.

[Kansas Ed]

Madis lists the transition between those numbers I gave. If it were even close I would be fairly OK with it except for the checkering, but it's so far off to be suspicious.

Ed