LOOSING MY MIND

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:16 pm

I recently got an as new Winchester Big Bore lever action rifle 375. I took it to a gunsmith for a few things to be done like sling swivels added . He called me today and said WELL I GUESS I OWE YOU A NEW STOCK !!!!! Believe it or not he took off the stock and drilled the hole in the top instead of the bottom for the hole for the swivel stud . OMG how lame is that !!!!!!!!!!!! Does anyone have a great idea of how to fill this and not look like stuff ??????? I am trying now to find a stock replacment for it as one company told me they might know where some are . I was realy depressed over this today as I looked a long time to get one to have it turned into junk in a few minutes . I am so sick of gumsmiths butchering up stuff I give them . for the last year I keep having to get stuff redone and I keep getting different guys .

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:19 pm

Enlarge the hole and install a small compass or find a plug of wood to match the grain of the wood. It won't be invisible but you can get close if you take the time.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:25 pm

WTF are you having a "gunsmith" do such a simple chore for?

Do it yourself.

Sorry, in a cantankerous mood. But really. This is such a simple thing. Do a little reseach if you don't know how.

And make the stupid MF'er buy you an new stock - check brownell's.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:11 pm

The gunsmith drilled the swivel hole in the TOP of the buttstock? That's quite a feat!

Pretty hard to be impressed with that kind of attention to detail.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:28 pm

Wow, just when you think you've heard it all. But, we are all only human. He does owe you a new stock, be sure to get it.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:34 pm

Hate to hear this Eagles. It can be fixed or replaced though I'm sure it just makes you sick right about now. Hang in there...that rifle should be worth the wait! I sure love my Win. Big Bores...my favorites.

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:45 pm

Thanks . Anyone know where to get the stock compas ? I have not seen the since Herters used to sell them

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:02 pm

Both of our BB 375's came with studs installed from the factory. Wish they weren't. There is a guy out here that does magic with stocks, but he takes quite awhile to do them. He restocks some shotguns which are his specialty that are 20-30K shotguns. Ever see a shotgun stocked for a RH shooter left eye dominant? He makes wood bend ways that my body can't bend.

Repaired a buddy of mines 1886 stock to the point that you can't tell it ever had a problem. Name is Jim Greenwood, Augusta Kansas. But don't expect it back anytime soon. Quality takes time, and he's really backlogged.

Ed

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:11 pm

waiting till monday as I might have a source of unused Winchester factory stocks sets . That will solve the problem . Just tried to finds the small tifle stock compas on line and no luck so far . Still also considering the small eilver shield type inlay as well , even if this winds up a spare stock

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:28 pm

I would chew on it for a while before you act. Covering it up with matching wood or replacing the stock may aggrevate you less as it won't remind you that someone drilled a hole there everytime you look at it. If you put something on there, as my old First Sergeant used to say, it may stick out "like a diamond in goat's [rear end

]" and not be what you wanted.

Edit: As I understand it...you don't want a compass needle near a piece of metal? Always wondered about having a compass on a firearm. I was always taught to be well away from a vehicle or metal when taking a compass reading. Just thinking out loud but maybe not a concern.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:35 pm

I think the compass idea is a good one! One of my Randall knives has a compass in the butt of the handle, and a similar compass mounted in a stock sounds very intriguing.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:52 pm

If it were my rifle, I'd be right PO'd but I would not consider the rifle or the stock to be ruined.

Just decide how you want to fill the hole, whether with a compass, a brass stud, enlarge the hole and add a few more to make s cartridge trap, of fill it with a wood plug. Then inform the ham-fisted nitwit that not only is he going to install the sling swivels and make the repair, but he is going to do it for free. His only other option would be to purchase a new stock and pay another gunsmith to install it.

In the mean time, pour yourself a cup of coffee, or four fingers of good bourbon and calm down. Getting this agitated over a minor stupidity is going to drive your blood pressure sky high (I'm speaking from experience here). The mistake, while regretable, just ain't catastrophic. It ain't like he cut the barrel back to 14" or cut the receiver in half. So calm yourself and decide what you want done.

Good luck finding a decent gunsmith.

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:35 am

good advice !!!

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:10 am

Hmmmmm......

Cut off a cartridge case behind the rim. Turn a piece of stainless to fit the primer pocket.
Bend to stock curvature. Epoxy in place.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:10 am

Doc Hudson wrote:It ain't like he cut the barrel back to 14" or cut the receiver in half. So calm yourself and decide what you want done.

Not yet anyway.

Sorry to hear that, Eagles. The guy's a schmuck. Personally after he bought the replacement stock I'd take my gun and run as fast as I could away from him. He'd never see any work from me again.

Marbles used to make small compasses. You might try googling them.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:35 am

I've only had about 10 .375 BB94's run through my hands over that years - but I've NEVER yet come across one that was issued with sling swivels from the factory.

eagles - If you can find one of those pin-on brass thingies that have a compass in the top/round section ( a Marbles ?), the round brass compass housing halves can be unscrewed from each other, the plastic-housed compass inside removed and installed in the stock - IF that boob drilled the hole on center !

Alunough, thinking about my suggestion........... If you farmed out such a simple job as installing sling swivel eyes, then installing a compass might not be for you, either.

.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:07 am

Last I checked, the Winchester parts department still had the stocks available. Give them a call. I think any 94XTR stock will work.

Gunsmith errors are extremely frustrating. I feel your pain. In fact, I have a story that is somewhat more ugly that involves a stock. I might start a thread about gunsmith boo-boo's after I take some pictures of it.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:18 am

If it was my gun

I would want the original wood stock.I would opt for having a VERY GOOD(not him)wood craftsman fill/plug it and custom refinish the stock.(Mr. Screwup should pay for that) That hole should be pretty darn small.Get it in writing(legal reasons)for that guy to make good on that refinish job!Could end up with a real sharp custom finish job and not have to see some medallion reminding you of his screwup.Either way the original stock the way it came is no longer.Might as well have a custom finish job.Very sorry that terrible event happened to you.Just think now you are going to have it finished maybe even better than before.It will look great when done. Give these guys a call! Great Work/Very good prices.
http://www.reesersgunsmithing.com/stock_work.htm

P.S. Check their web site they will also for $22 install your sling swivels on your new finished stock the right way.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:18 am

He could mix the sawdust with glue and fill the hole then restain and refinish the area, not invisible but close if properly done---- which might be a problem if he can't tell top from bottom

!!!

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:52 pm

He said he did fill it some how but he knows he owes for the stock. My first option is a brand new stock from Winchester etc A replacment stock set which is the same as being orriginal as the wood has no serial number in it that I am aware of and all the Winchester stocks for that model are bolt on clones anyway . Hell it may have allready had one , who would know ? IF I can get that which I will know next week . Barring that either some cover up and or a full custom replacment by Macon Gun stocks with some nice wood to match this one in qaulity . I allready gave him the heads up he is looking at a $600 job if the bolt on $200 stock does not come through . I will not let him off the hook with some elmers glue and sawdust .

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:59 pm

C. Cash wrote:Edit: As I understand it...you don't want a compass needle near a piece of metal? Always wondered about having a compass on a firearm. I was always taught to be well away from a vehicle or metal when taking a compass reading. Just thinking out loud but maybe not a concern.

If your only a little bit lost it's ok if the compass is a little bit off.

Compasses can be funny things. In aircraft --- we "swing" a compass to correct for errors. Any radio change-out etc will bring the need to check a compass.

I suppose if you dont ... bad things can happen. We knew a guy who left an airport near Daytona Beach FL one day... heading to Key West. His compass was busted and he didnt know it.

He wound up in Arkansas. Hard to do in Florida... after all at 5,000 feet or so you can see the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico...not to mention that the sun should be over one of those bodies in the AM- the other in the afternoon

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:06 pm

Nah, you're not the one losing your mind; that "gunsmith" is...

What kinda weed do they smoke in your neighborhood, anyway...?

Make him pay for any and all repairs, and NEVER take him any more work -- of any kind -- ever again... Guys like that can't be trusted to dig a new hole for the privy.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:29 pm

Hillbilly wrote:
C. Cash wrote:We knew a guy who left an airport near Daytona Beach FL one day... heading to Key West. His compass was busted and he didnt know it.

He wound up in Arkansas.

That's quite a feat...

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:22 pm

I never went to him before this . I found him in the yellow pages with some stuff like" if you want the best come here" . He also makes very ellaborate iron gates for people's homes and his gun repair shop is surrounded by the other iron works. The thing is he just looks tired and worn out and that worried me when I saw him but I also thought , hmm .lots of experiance . I left him three guns . He took my model 71 50-110 apart so I could send off the bolt for a bolt peep (he is supposed to add sling swivels here also and my model 95 for a recoil pad and reducer in stock and sling swivels . Now he has them all apart and I feel a bit screwed as I dont want to get them bak in pieces half done but I am afraid of his abilityu to put them back together ok etc. The work was so minor it seemed any gunsmith could do it and anyone who could build these ornate ellaborate gates should be able to drill a dam hole in a piece of wood on the correct side . I found a nice silver acorn piece and the guys in Pa on the above mentioned link said they can install it and refinish the stock for a arround $160. If the new Winchester stock does not happen then that is what I will do as I want to get some acorns and boars engraved on the reciever anyway so it will kind of fit in and I am starting to like the idea (maybe this is a blessing in disguise for a newly refinsihsed stock and some bling ! . Every single one of these guns has been to multiple smiths for things the next one had to undue and on it goes . Most are bone head errors like putting on a reciever sight the bolt cant cycele when up , installing a scope that wont let the empties eject, installing a reciver sight and leaving on the v Sight so you can not see through the reciver sight , installing a stock mounted recoil reducer and just drilling the hole and dropping it in the hole instead of anchoring it . Installing a folding leaf rear sight thas has a visable gap between the entire base of the sight and the barrel instead of installing a proper shim on the base of the sight to close the gap which will collect dirt and moisture and rust . . As soon as I pick up the gun and look at it I go WHAT IS THIS and then I get the hamster look . This is the first time a permenant error has happened . All the rest were done by guys with shingles out as "gun smiths" and in one case a famous one . All were outside of Ca this my first Ca gunsmith butcher job .

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:36 pm

Sounds good Guy!

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:37 pm

awp101 wrote:
Hillbilly wrote:
C. Cash wrote:We knew a guy who left an airport near Daytona Beach FL one day... heading to Key West. His compass was busted and he didnt know it.

He wound up in Arkansas.
That's quite a feat...

What about 'Wrong-way" Corrigan, who took off from Long island, NY with the announced destination of Los Angles, CA. He landed in Cork, Ireland.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:52 pm

Alright.....alright, I made a stupid comment. But it was late and I was having a bad day.

Still....compasses mounted on steel rods...hmmmm.

Sounds like your on the right path Eagles. Can't wait for a range report.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:57 pm

eagles wrote:Believe it or not he took off the stock and drilled the hole in the top instead of the bottom for the hole for the swivel stud .

He was just installing a TACTICAL sling for you...

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:06 pm

Doc Hudson wrote:
awp101 wrote:
Hillbilly wrote:
C. Cash wrote:We knew a guy who left an airport near Daytona Beach FL one day... heading to Key West. His compass was busted and he didnt know it.

He wound up in Arkansas.
That's quite a feat...

What about 'Wrong-way" Corrigan, who took off from Long island, NY with the announced destination of Los Angles, CA. He landed in Cork, Ireland.

Wikipedia makes a good case that that was Wrong-way landed exactly where he wanted. Just couldn't get permission so he went and did it.

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:22 pm

Tactical huh , I hope he does not read this and it gives him an Idea for an excuse !!!! Very funny

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:08 am

Bad news is their are no stocks avaialble from Winchester or anyone else that I can find , that are stock spares ,so I will have it sent to the guys in Pa for the refinish and inlay job .

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:42 am

ok here we go my fears are all comming true !!!!!!! WHERE CAN I GET A BROWNING MODEL 71 SCEMATIC FOR MY LAME BRAIN GUN SMITH !!!! HE TOLD ME THIS MORNING HE NEEDS ONE AS HE DOES NOT WANT TO PUT MY 71 BACK TOGETHER WITH A PIECE OR TWO IN BACKWARDS !!!!!! ALL HE DID WAS PULL THE BOLT TO GIVE ME AS I HAD TO SEND IT AWAY TO GET A BOLT PEEP PUT ON. I GOT IT AND GAVE IT BACK TO HIM . I WAS TOLD THESE MIGHT BE TRICKY TO PUT BACK TOGETHER SO I FIGURED GO TO A PRO !!!!! I AM NOT SURE , IS THE NEWER BROWNING 71 COPY EXACTLY THE SAME INSIDE AS THE OLD WINCHESTER MODEL 71 OR DID THEY CHANGE ANYTHING HE NEEDS TO BE AWARE OF ?????? I NEED TO JUST GET THIS STUFF BACK IN ONE PIECE BEFORE HE DOES ANY MORE DAMAGE . ARE THEIR SCEMATICS AVAILABLE ON THIS SIGHT ?

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:53 am

Get the man to let you box up everything and GET IT ALL OUT OF HIS SHOP --- POST HASTE.

Find someone else, with an IQ in positive numbers, and get the work done there.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:03 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Get the man to let you box up everything and GET IT ALL OUT OF HIS SHOP --- POST HASTE.

Find someone else, with an IQ in positive numbers, and get the work done there.

+1
I will try and look for you Eagles.

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:31 pm

GPC had them a while back, sorry for your problem, but this is not an uncommon mistake. I have had to fill several of these over the years. I use a plug of walnut from an old stock that matches and do the finish with analine dye and artists brushes and when it's done it just lookls like a small knot. The stock from a regular 30-30 will fit if you don't wan't the recoil pad or as i did use a commerative curved buttplate stock.

winchester1886 · Post by **winchester1886** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:52 pm

A wood turner would turn you a round plug that with a bit of wood glue would fix the problem, if it is left a bit proud you can then sand it to the exact profile of the top of the stock, and I am sure when you drop your first deer you won't say that was great but I am so upset about that plug of wood in the stock, dumb act by the gunsmith but I would want the original stock on the gun if it was mine.

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:24 pm

The latest is He agreed to send the entire gun to Jake at Reesers but when Jake called him he said he was only sending the stock. I called him and he got a bit abrasive asking why they needed the entire gun to plug a hole (probalby he did not want to pay the entire cost of shiping , now I wonder if he will put it in brown paper and send it off). Also he probably realizes what ever other work he thought he might do was NOT going to get done by him. I told this boob they neded to fit the wood pats that were finished to the wood with no exces stock finish to peel of or get damaged if the gun was not present ( sounded pretty good, main objective to free the gun from his grasp !!! ) He agreed . I bought him a schematic on the 71 (although he also said he had one comming over on Video ?) fromNumrich for $1.50 on line Hell you can see that in a load of gun books he should allready have and even if I was a Gunsmith fresh out of school on the job I would NEVER call a customer back asking them if THEY had a schematic on the gun they left me to work on !!!. The guy at Reesers was rolling on the floor laughing . I decided to try and let him put the 71 back together as if he handed me a box of parts ,small springs etc half will probalby be missing and then it will be my fault later that I lost them .If it goes back together and does not work by his hands he will have to pay again to have someone redo his latest butcher job . I would not be surprised if he allready lost a few of the tiny springs like the trigger return spring which is very small .

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:48 am

Somebody get a rope...

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:26 pm

I got the tree and the horse

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:10 pm

Don't need no horse. Just hoist him slowly, until he can't write his name in the sand with his toes any longer...

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:49 pm

KirkD wrote:The gunsmith drilled the swivel hole in the TOP of the buttstock? That's quite a feat! Pretty hard to be impressed with that kind of attention to detail.

Hell, doctors in a room full of professionals remove the wrong limb or do the wrong surgery all the time! Stuff happens.

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:02 pm

or drill holes in the worng end of wood . I think he needs a sling swivel installed on his knogin

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:08 pm

He needs a post rectal-cranial insertion removal. Then like Buck sez, get a rope!

Nate C. · Post by **Nate C.** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:24 pm

Wow. That's tragic. I'd make sure that 'gunsmith' gets plenty of bad press in your community...after you get your guns back. A call to the local Better Business Bureau might prevent the next guy from enduring tomorrow that which you are today.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:11 pm

eagles, Somthing is not right with this guy! First he makes a major mistake like that,then lies about what he is sending to Jake at Reesers,then he says he needs from you a schematic of the gun.
I truly wonder about him working on your gun any more at all.Myself I would want him to send the entire weapon to a established/known true professional and have that professional verify all your parts are there upon reciept and nothing else is damaged.Also have the true real pro gunsmith/stock refinisher bill him the costs.Do you have written/on-line documentation or recorded phone records of this want to be wonders screw-up?
This type of guy I feel is not what he says he is.I just hope he does not string you along a long time and end up stiffing you later with all costs and do even more damage to the working of your gun.When you say he got somewhat angry over your questioning of mailing the gun/thats a big red flag to me??

i would want to end ALL ties with him ASAP!

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:26 pm

I think he is working way to hard on his iron gates and the gunsmithing for him now is sort of a side living and when he gets arround to it he is to dam worn out to do things right . He is allways dragging him,kself arround like he is hafl dead and all dirty to boot the last few times I saw him . I plan on going over by the week end if I can get away from work long enough at least by Monday. If my gun is not put back together I am taking it in parts , the 405 (oh yes that was for a set of swivels , recoil pad and reducer, ) . He has agreed to fully pay for the profesional stock redo so I dont want to rile him to much until he does that , one reason I am hoping he can put my gun back together so I can pay him a little and he does not go back on paying for the stock job. Rest assured if he does he will be going to small claims court but that more time and effort for me . Once all my things are out of his evil grasp I will tell the world who he is and about him . I actualy want to see if he can put a recoil pad on correclty . As far as Dr's taking of the wrong limb, at least they probably dont ask the patient if they have the text book showing them how to do it to boot !!!!! (or in this case putting it back ) Maybe he should be called Humpty Dumpties gun repair !!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:26 pm

Good Luck to ya, however it turns out!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:32 pm

Well, just remember; YOU KNEW gunsmithing was only his sideline. YOU wanted a bargain. You got it. He's trying to make it right. Don't be a jerk.

eagles · Post by **eagles** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:44 pm

Your being the Jerk , and have no idea of what you are talking about . Are you his Brother ? 1. When did I say I knew it was a side line ? HIS ADD SAYS SO AND SO'S GUNSMITHING AND IRON WORKS . He lists GUNSMITHING FIRST !!!! It also says IN THE GUNSMITHING AREA ON HIS CARD , IF YOU WANT THE BEST COME HERE !!!! DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A BARGAIN BASMENT GUY ? I saw those highoy Orante iron Gates as a sign of a craftsmen. YES he was older and a little bit beat up looking maybe from the work AND THAT GAV EME SOME HESITATION , BUT I WAS NEVER LOOKING FOR A BARGAIN AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY THAT !!!!! MY 50-110 WAS COLOR CASE HARDENED BY TURNBULL AND THE SMITH IS ONE OF YOUR FEATURED ONE ON THIS SITE, I HAD CUSTOM FOUR LEAF SIGHTS MADE FOR IT AND A CUSTOM STOCK AND CHECKERING DONE TO IT , IM EVEN SPENDING OVER $300 TO HAVE CUSTOM LOADS MADE FOR THIS 375 WITH 300 GRAIN LOADS THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE BEFORE . I have spared NO EXPENSE in my guns so far .If anything I was lured into this guys place becauee he had good adds and he was not far from my home and the work was not rechambering or scratch parts making . I have guns here from some of the finest gunsmiths in the world so I resent the hell out of it when some one says I was looking for a bargain. I NEVER EVEN ASKED HIM WHAT HE WOULD CHARGE ME !!!! Formerly I was delaing with the gunsmiths at the fine gun room in the bass Pro shop in Las Vega and drove allmost four hours to let them do some work as it was first rate until bass pro fired them .I saw this impressive add and the guy was 20 min away . By the way I asked him to insure my gun when he sent it and he told me yesterdy he did for $300 and its wrapped real well with a towel arround it !

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:14 pm

Basically, it sounds like you're one of those rich guys that can't do anything for yourself but spend money and brag or whine about it. Do you even shoot? Feel free to ignore me and never talk to me again. People like you are the bane of my existence and a PITA.