Winchester Buttstock Change

[GonnePhishin]

Would anyone care to elaborate on why Winchester changed from the crescent buttstock to the straignt edged one?

While never having shot one, it seems that the crescent one would be more comfortable to use.

Just wondering...

[Hillbilly]

The Crescent stock hurts like the dickens if you place it square on your shoulder.

It works pretty good if you stuck in more on the upper arm and that's the way a lot of old timers learned to shoot. For stationary shooting... using shooting sticks, that old time reclining prone etc the Crescent butt has some advantges.

The Caribine stock or the shotgun butted guns are a lot easier for me snap shooting or with bigger calibers.

[Gun Smith]

While the crescent style might be easier to lever and reload without taking it from the shoulder, it's not nearly as comfortable to shoot as the carbine or shotgun style buttplate. Both the latter spreads the recoil over a wider area of the shoulder, and as heavier calibers with greatly increased recoil came on the market, I'm sure customers let the factories know that the crescent was not the best way to go.
Since I shoot all my calibers I have two (different size) rubber slip-on pads that I use over all the rifle's buttstocks. They give you a slight length of pull addition, keeps the metal buttplates off your soldier, and can easily be put on or taken off the original butt surfaces without destroying the guns originality.
Hillbilly has the solution to crescent use in his post.

[Mike D.]

The crescent style stock was standard on most model Winchesters, but the flat, or shotgun, type was available on special order. Winchester went with the latter type butts after the original Models 86, 92 and 94 were phased out prior to WWII. With a very few notable exceptions, the end of series 1886s all had the HR shotgun butts. The 94 stayed in production, but the curved carbine type butt was dropped, in favor of the flat, steel plated one that we are all familiar with. It is also more durable than the HRBP.

[Griff]

Whether or not one finds the crescent buttplate comfortable to shoot or not, was not a factor in Winchester's dropping it as the standard "rifle" buttplate, nor in dropping the curved buttplate from the carbine version. It was a financial decision. It was simply cheaper to have a flat steel of either checkered or plain design that a curved buttplate that required inletting to the wood. Same with the crescent, it require an additional notch be cut in the top of the buttstock and then both the wood and metal were sanded to the correct contour. These changes were instituted prior to WWII; Winchester had dropped the "RIFLE" version of the 94, standardized on a Model 64 as the only rifle available in this action, then further reduced options by only offering the mdl 55, 64 & 94 with extremely limited variations. Until one ordered from the Custom Shop, one didn't get what one wanted anymore, one got what Winchester offered.

This was mostly done after the Stock Market Crash of 1929, when the US had entered the "Great Depression" and overall sales of most anything were down, if one could even find the money to buy the most basic of needs. I didn't live in this time, but finding retail outlets with the wherewithal to stock even one or two samples was probably difficult... having standardized it's own inventory, Winchester probably allowed faster turnaround time for orders, and although its' production methods were still not efficient, it was likely an improvement over previous stocking requirements.

And, for the record, I find both the crescent (rifle) and curved (carbine) buttplates much more comfortable to shoot. Except for the prone position... then the crescent version is a little more uncomfortable. But, if I position it on the fleshy part of the shoulder or just off the point it's ok. Unlike a flat buttplate or the rubber versions found on more modern styled rifles the crescent can't be placed in the hollow of the shoulder, but needs to be out further toward or past the point of the shoulder... just not on it.

Seldom are things solely based on aesthetics, often market conditions have more influence that simply looking back at history might immediately seem apparent.

[Driftwood Johnson]

While the crescent style might be easier to lever and reload without taking it from the shoulder, it's not nearly as comfortable to shoot as the carbine or shotgun style buttplate.

Howdy

I happen to disagree. I have an original Winchester Model 1892, an original Marlin model 1894, an Uberti replica Model 1873 and an Uberti 1860 Henry. All chambered for 44-40. I shoot them all as they were meant to be shot, with the butt hiked out a little bit, encircling the shoulder joint and they are very mild to shoot.

Many years ago I owned a lovely little Model 1894. It had probably been cut down from a longer length barrel, the barrel was only 20" long, and the magazine had been cut to half length. It had a rifle type crescent buttplate. It was obviously a rifle that had been cut down, not a carbine. Unfortunately I did not know the proper way to shoot a rifle with a crescent butt in those days. A 30-30 in a light rifle with a crescent buttplate mounted improperly on the meaty part of the shoulder hurts like the dickens. Now that I know the proper way to shoot a crescent buttplate I wish I still had it, but it was stolen many years ago.

[20cows]

Griff nailed it!

[Griff]

While the crescent style might be easier to lever and reload without taking it from the shoulder, it's not nearly as comfortable to shoot as the carbine or shotgun style buttplate.

Many years ago I owned a lovely little Model 1894. It had probably been cut down from a longer length barrel, the barrel was only 20" long, and the magazine had been cut to half length. It had a rifle type crescent buttplate. It was obviously a rifle that had been cut down, not a carbine. Unfortunately I did not know the proper way to shoot a rifle with a crescent butt in those days. A 30-30 in a light rifle with a crescent buttplate mounted improperly on the meaty part of the shoulder hurts like the dickens. Now that I know the proper way to shoot a crescent buttplate I wish I still had it, but it was stolen many years ago.

It might not have been a cut-down "rifle". Winchester made many "rifles" with a 20" barrel. Model 55s were the "standardized" version of their straight grip rifle and were made with both 20" & 26" barrels, in both solid and TD versions. They were made from the late 20's thru the early part of the '30's... Serial numbers started out in their own range, then became concurrent with mdl 94s. It would not surprise me to come across a 94 "rifle" with a 20" barrel.

[GonnePhishin]

The wealth of information to be gained on this website never ceases to amaze me. Thanks guys for all your responses, especially on the ergonomics of correctly placing the crescent butt stock outside of the shoulder.

Personally, I just think the crescent style just looks cool

[Pop Watts]

Interesting post for me.

I love the crescent shaped butt plate on my 1894's and even more so on the 1873 - they just fit me really nicely.

Griff, I was interested in your coment regarding the depression and falling sales of rifles. I am looking at my "Madis" book now and he shows 22631 1894's produced in 1929, a drastic drop to 4657 in 1930, 2400 in 1931 and 3679 in 1932. Contrast that with 1913 when Winchester made over 57000!

Winchester made only 491 Models 1892 in 1930!

Now there was a global economis chrisis!!!!

Sure were hard times and I guess Winchester did what thet could to keep afloat.

Great topic, thanks for the post.

Pop.

[Malamute]

I for one vastly prefer the shotgun type butt, finding them not only more comfortable, but faster handing. I like the looks of the crescents and carbine butts, but as far as actual handling and shooting, feel that the shotgun butt is a huge improvement. In my project guns, a true rifle type shotgun butt (a little taller/wider than the later carbine butts) is what I'm planning for the special order type projects.


Roosevelt among others, had shotgun butts on his special order high grade rifles.

[Driftwood Johnson]

It might not have been a cut-down "rifle". Winchester made many "rifles" with a 20" barrel. Model 55s were the "standardized" version of their straight grip rifle and were made with both 20" & 26" barrels, in both solid and TD versions. They were made from the late 20's thru the early part of the '30's... Serial numbers started out in their own range, then became concurrent with mdl 94s. It would not surprise me to come across a 94 "rifle" with a 20" barrel.

The rifle was stolen way back in the 1970s, so I don't remember a lot of details. I do remember it had a pistol grip stock, and the magazine had been cut down because the dovetail for the magazine hanger up near the front of the barrel had not been filled in. Can't remember what type of front sight it had or whether or not it looked cut down. It might have been original, seeing as the dovetail was still there. Or the dovetail might have been cut after cutting the barrel. Really don't know.

I found it at a roadside flea market in rural New York State and if I remember correctly I think I paid $40 for it. Sure wish I still had it.