Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

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CowboyTutt
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Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Well, I've been sitting on a little secret for almost a year now, and perhaps its time I finally tell. I had the pleasure of shooting Buck's famous prototype rifle in 454 Casull last April in Hotchkiss, CO. Its current owner, who resides in Alaska, is a friend of mine from another forum group, and he graciously let me pay to have the rifle shipped back to the “lower 48” for me to test and write about.

The rifle's history I will leave to Buck himself to speak of if he wishes. It is a rather painful journey down “memory lane” for him and he may not want to. He did have some remarkable hunting experiences with the rifle that he may share, however. Therefore I will only speak of my limited experience shooting the rifle at the Friend's of Billy Dixon Ultra Long Range Shooting Facility with my friend Tym Hurst.

The gun is impressively heavy and attractive in its contours and design. The wood is beautiful, the metal-to-metal fit outstanding, and the wood-to-metal fit still pretty tight although the wood has dried and shrunk some over the years. The metal had a slight patina on it that just added to the rifle's appearance. It had what appeared to be a medium-heavy octagon barrel that made it very steady to shoot off-hand. The trigger pull was very crisp and broke cleanly at what felt like an easy 3 lbs. From my first try I was able to hit steel targets at 300 yards repeatedly with little difficulty and my general impression was that it was a fantastically easy to shoot and accurate rifle.

There were some functional problems with cycling ammunition reliably but you have to keep in mind that this was a prototype, the first incarnation of Buck's design, and as it turned out, the only one ever built. I'm sure if Buck had had more financial resources, more development time, and the ability to make more prototypes, those bugs would have been worked out and the end result would have been a truly outstanding rifle.

In the end, my friend Tym and I were able to put about 10-12 rounds through it before we noticed a very small crack starting in the butt stock or forend, I honestly do not remember. We immediately stopped shooting but took many pictures of this splendid rifle.

It sounds like a rifle similar to Buck's, but not based upon his designs, is going to be produced by Big Horn Armory chambered in 500 S&W magnum. Perhaps we shall also see that same rifle chambered in 454 Casull or 460 S&W some day.

Meanwhile, Buck's prototype rifle stands as perhaps one of the earliest examples of chambering the mighty 454 Casull in a levergun.

But I do know of some others. But that is another story..........

As always, thanks for listening.

-Tutt

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Last edited by CowboyTutt on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Andy -

Very cool!!! 8) Thanks for sharing, and as always, for the pictures! :mrgreen:
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by JReed »

Cool :D I know Buck has written about his tests of the Win 94 and Marlin 336 and the .454. May be he will be along to share on this rifle.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by WCF3030 »

Wow!!
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by salvo »

That is a dandy!
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by rjohns94 »

simply beautiful! a work of art. WOW :shock:
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

Great looking gun ... love the size and, of course, the characteristics that give it that 86/71 look.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by kimwcook »

That's off the charts cool. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be able to build a rifle like that. That's talent.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Old Savage »

Neat article - what caliber is it?
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by J Miller »

Andy,

Now I see what all the fuss is about. That's a beauty. Too bad the crack happened I'll bet you guys really wanted to wring it out good.

Question; In pic one and five there is a snow covered mountain peak in the back ground. Do you know what mountain that is?

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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Hobie »

Old Savage wrote:Neat article - what caliber is it?
Fred,

It is:
Meanwhile, Buck's prototype rifle stands as perhaps one of the earliest examples of chambering the mighty 454 Casull in a levergun.
:wink:
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Thanks Hobie. I just edited the article and also added the chambering in the first paragraph as I should have.

Joe, I don't know the name of the peak in the background. Its east of Hotchkiss, CO. I always enjoy my visits out there.

Yeah, I would have really enjoyed wringing her out more, but it wasn't going to happen. I'm still extremely lucky to have had the opportunity to shoot it at all. 8)

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

If Buck says it is OK, I will post more pictures of it, including some of the internals, but only if its OK with him.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Paladin »

Very impressive.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by C. Cash »

Wow....beautiful indeed. Well done Buck, and many thanks to you for sharing that Andy. Small world to have you get your hands on it. That looks to be the ideal lever setup in many ways. I would have to believe there would be a solid niche for such a rifle if it could be produced today. I know I would be saving my pennies for one.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

By some strange co-inky-dink, I seem to be knowledgeable about, or involved in, the "cutting edge" of traditional leverguns chambered in the 454 Casull. I'm grateful to be a part of that process. And yes, I've spoken to none other than Bob Baker on the subject.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Griff »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by ab4ka »

awesome rifle!
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Gun Smith »

I see it's based on the '86 action. Was the action created from scratch, or was it a '71 or '86 action with custom wood and barrel?
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by SteveR »

CowboyTutt wrote:By some strange co-inky-dink, I seem to be knowledgeable about, or involved in, the "cutting edge" of traditional leverguns chambered in the 454 Casull. I'm grateful to be a part of that process. And yes, I've spoken to none other than Bob Baker on the subject.

-Tutt
Thanks for the article. Now Freedom Arms making a 454 in a lever, that would be worth every penny.

Steve
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by C. Cash »

Gun Smith....Andy or Buck can chime in here, but it is neither. As I understand it, it is longer than a 92 to feed the 454 but shorter than the 86 action, and perhaps other mods that Buck would know about.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

The rifle was made from scratch and its supposed to be about 1/4 shorter than an 86 according to its current owner. The internals I think are slightly different from an 86 but I will let Buck speak to that if he wants too. An F.A. levergun would be very, very expensive and they have no plans to build one at present.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Buck Elliott »

Thanks for posting the pictures and the story, Andy.

Would greatly appreciate it if you could e-mail me the photos you have.

Post whatever you feel like.
Regards

Buck

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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Hobie »

Buck Elliott wrote:Thanks for posting the pictures and the story, Andy.

Would greatly appreciate it if you could e-mail me the photos you have.

Post whatever you feel like.
Buck,

If Tutt doesn't get arountuit let me know. I saved them all to my computer.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Buck, I'd like to send you the full size versions of the pictures and I have more than what I posted. Can I burn them on to disc and mail them to you? It would be easier for me than using the internet. If you would PM me a mailing address I will get it out this week.

Would you like to tell us more details about how your rifle is built? Or how about that elk hunting story you told me? Everyone would love to hear about the rifle and what you have done with it.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Buck Elliott »

Thanks, Andy. Sent PM
Regards

Buck

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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by C. Cash »

Hope you don't mind a question or two Andy. What was your impression of the recoil in a rifle of that weight, vs. a Puma? Standing up it may have been harder to tell. Were you using factory 454 loads?
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Cash, the recoil was not bad at all, even with the steel, shotgun-style buttplate (Good choice, Buck!). I would say it hurt less then my 454 Puma did with the original factory recoil pad. With the new squishy pad on the Puma its a toss up from standing.

Bear in mind, that from off-hand even my 375 H&H A.I. is not too bad with its premium pad. Standing is much more forgiving, but I do remember how much that Puma could kick in the old days. It left bruises.

Oh yeah, the loads were a slightly reduced load of 28 grains of Lil' Gun and a BR-4 primer which is one grain under minimum with that powder in the 454 Casull according to Hodgedon. Seems to work fine and I like the consistancy of the bench rest primer. It chronographs better than Hornady's factory stuff at any rate.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by C. Cash »

Thank you Tutt! I was curious about that....never shot a 454 before but have heard the tales of folks shooting the Puma.
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Aw geez, no big deal my friend! :oops: Puma's weigh about 7 lbs and that 454 is the equal of a 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet, so do the math! Also, the factory recoil pad is a joke! :lol:

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Buck Elliott »

The loads I ran through that rifle, regularly, were 315- to 325-gr. bullets at 2100 fps. Ballistically, it replicates the .45-90 HV loading.

Weight and balance of the rifle -- along with stock design -- make recoil very easy to deal with.
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Buck

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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Those are some smokin' loads, Buck! :lol:

I hope the current owner repairs the very small crack in the wood and beds the stock to make her shootable again. She needs a little TLC.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Buck Elliott »

Those loads are (were) FA factory equivalent: 30- to 31-gr. H-110 in original NAA .454 Casull cases, with CCI Large Rifle Primers. those were also the loads I shot in my 7 1/2" FA revolver, for 1700 fps. They churn up nearly 65,000 psi (62,000 CUP) chamber pressure.

Tried bullet weights from 240-gr. up to 345-gr. Got the best, all-around results with the loads described above. I cast more bullets for that project than I'd have ever dreamed of. Didn't care much for any of the jacketed slugs I tried, with the possible exception of the FA 300-gr. JSP and the Speer 300-gr. PSP. None of the others were sufficiently accurate to matter, fired at .454 pressures & velocities. The 325-gr. hard-cast bullets just would not stop, for anything, including 2 bull elk at one shot, with the bullet leaving the scene...

I always saw the combination as a cast-bullet outfit, anyway, and it didn't let me down.
Regards

Buck

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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Buck, were your lead bullets gas-checked? That bullet weight in lead does sound promising and I may have to try some. I do like the Hornady 300 XTP Mag bullets which are JHPs but obviously could squeeze more velocity with your recomendation of a slightly heavier lead bullet. I have recovered many of the XTPs and they are one tough bullet.

-Tutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by Buck Elliott »

CowboyTutt wrote:Buck, were your lead bullets gas-checked? That bullet weight in lead does sound promising and I may have to try some. I do like the Hornady 300 XTP Mag bullets which are JHPs but obviously could squeeze more velocity with your recomendation of a slightly heavier lead bullet. I have recovered many of the XTPs and they are one tough bullet.

-Tutt
Gas-checked bullets gave the best results, overall, and by a good margin. With the (nominal) 300-gr. FA/Lyman bullet, and an LBT 325-gr GC slug, I could cut round, cloverleaf groups at 100 yards from the bench, with the iron sights. The 345-gr LBT WFN (PB) was not quite as accurate, usually going into 3" or more at the same distance.

The XTP Mag loads I tried were disappointingly inconsistant. Maybe I didn't clean the barrel well enough before firing them...
Regards

Buck

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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

I have various loads in 454 and 454 "Long" for my stetched Puma action in both jacketed and lead. I'll be shooting them between Christmas and New Years. I'll let you know how it goes. Obviously a different rifle altogether than yours! Hope to catch you by phone on Saturday!

-Tutt
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