Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
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- CowboyTutt
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Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Well, I've been sitting on a little secret for almost a year now, and perhaps its time I finally tell. I had the pleasure of shooting Buck's famous prototype rifle in 454 Casull last April in Hotchkiss, CO. Its current owner, who resides in Alaska, is a friend of mine from another forum group, and he graciously let me pay to have the rifle shipped back to the “lower 48” for me to test and write about.
The rifle's history I will leave to Buck himself to speak of if he wishes. It is a rather painful journey down “memory lane” for him and he may not want to. He did have some remarkable hunting experiences with the rifle that he may share, however. Therefore I will only speak of my limited experience shooting the rifle at the Friend's of Billy Dixon Ultra Long Range Shooting Facility with my friend Tym Hurst.
The gun is impressively heavy and attractive in its contours and design. The wood is beautiful, the metal-to-metal fit outstanding, and the wood-to-metal fit still pretty tight although the wood has dried and shrunk some over the years. The metal had a slight patina on it that just added to the rifle's appearance. It had what appeared to be a medium-heavy octagon barrel that made it very steady to shoot off-hand. The trigger pull was very crisp and broke cleanly at what felt like an easy 3 lbs. From my first try I was able to hit steel targets at 300 yards repeatedly with little difficulty and my general impression was that it was a fantastically easy to shoot and accurate rifle.
There were some functional problems with cycling ammunition reliably but you have to keep in mind that this was a prototype, the first incarnation of Buck's design, and as it turned out, the only one ever built. I'm sure if Buck had had more financial resources, more development time, and the ability to make more prototypes, those bugs would have been worked out and the end result would have been a truly outstanding rifle.
In the end, my friend Tym and I were able to put about 10-12 rounds through it before we noticed a very small crack starting in the butt stock or forend, I honestly do not remember. We immediately stopped shooting but took many pictures of this splendid rifle.
It sounds like a rifle similar to Buck's, but not based upon his designs, is going to be produced by Big Horn Armory chambered in 500 S&W magnum. Perhaps we shall also see that same rifle chambered in 454 Casull or 460 S&W some day.
Meanwhile, Buck's prototype rifle stands as perhaps one of the earliest examples of chambering the mighty 454 Casull in a levergun.
But I do know of some others. But that is another story..........
As always, thanks for listening.
-Tutt
Well, I've been sitting on a little secret for almost a year now, and perhaps its time I finally tell. I had the pleasure of shooting Buck's famous prototype rifle in 454 Casull last April in Hotchkiss, CO. Its current owner, who resides in Alaska, is a friend of mine from another forum group, and he graciously let me pay to have the rifle shipped back to the “lower 48” for me to test and write about.
The rifle's history I will leave to Buck himself to speak of if he wishes. It is a rather painful journey down “memory lane” for him and he may not want to. He did have some remarkable hunting experiences with the rifle that he may share, however. Therefore I will only speak of my limited experience shooting the rifle at the Friend's of Billy Dixon Ultra Long Range Shooting Facility with my friend Tym Hurst.
The gun is impressively heavy and attractive in its contours and design. The wood is beautiful, the metal-to-metal fit outstanding, and the wood-to-metal fit still pretty tight although the wood has dried and shrunk some over the years. The metal had a slight patina on it that just added to the rifle's appearance. It had what appeared to be a medium-heavy octagon barrel that made it very steady to shoot off-hand. The trigger pull was very crisp and broke cleanly at what felt like an easy 3 lbs. From my first try I was able to hit steel targets at 300 yards repeatedly with little difficulty and my general impression was that it was a fantastically easy to shoot and accurate rifle.
There were some functional problems with cycling ammunition reliably but you have to keep in mind that this was a prototype, the first incarnation of Buck's design, and as it turned out, the only one ever built. I'm sure if Buck had had more financial resources, more development time, and the ability to make more prototypes, those bugs would have been worked out and the end result would have been a truly outstanding rifle.
In the end, my friend Tym and I were able to put about 10-12 rounds through it before we noticed a very small crack starting in the butt stock or forend, I honestly do not remember. We immediately stopped shooting but took many pictures of this splendid rifle.
It sounds like a rifle similar to Buck's, but not based upon his designs, is going to be produced by Big Horn Armory chambered in 500 S&W magnum. Perhaps we shall also see that same rifle chambered in 454 Casull or 460 S&W some day.
Meanwhile, Buck's prototype rifle stands as perhaps one of the earliest examples of chambering the mighty 454 Casull in a levergun.
But I do know of some others. But that is another story..........
As always, thanks for listening.
-Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
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"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
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"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Ysabel Kid
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Andy -
Very cool!!! Thanks for sharing, and as always, for the pictures!
Very cool!!! Thanks for sharing, and as always, for the pictures!
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Cool I know Buck has written about his tests of the Win 94 and Marlin 336 and the .454. May be he will be along to share on this rifle.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
That is a dandy!
ScottS
"No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."
-- Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."
-- Ronald Reagan
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
simply beautiful! a work of art. WOW
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
- Rimfire McNutjob
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Great looking gun ... love the size and, of course, the characteristics that give it that 86/71 look.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
- kimwcook
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
That's off the charts cool. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be able to build a rifle like that. That's talent.
Old Law Dawg
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Neat article - what caliber is it?
- J Miller
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Andy,
Now I see what all the fuss is about. That's a beauty. Too bad the crack happened I'll bet you guys really wanted to wring it out good.
Question; In pic one and five there is a snow covered mountain peak in the back ground. Do you know what mountain that is?
Joe
Now I see what all the fuss is about. That's a beauty. Too bad the crack happened I'll bet you guys really wanted to wring it out good.
Question; In pic one and five there is a snow covered mountain peak in the back ground. Do you know what mountain that is?
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Fred,Old Savage wrote:Neat article - what caliber is it?
It is:
Meanwhile, Buck's prototype rifle stands as perhaps one of the earliest examples of chambering the mighty 454 Casull in a levergun.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Thanks Hobie. I just edited the article and also added the chambering in the first paragraph as I should have.
Joe, I don't know the name of the peak in the background. Its east of Hotchkiss, CO. I always enjoy my visits out there.
Yeah, I would have really enjoyed wringing her out more, but it wasn't going to happen. I'm still extremely lucky to have had the opportunity to shoot it at all.
-Tutt
Joe, I don't know the name of the peak in the background. Its east of Hotchkiss, CO. I always enjoy my visits out there.
Yeah, I would have really enjoyed wringing her out more, but it wasn't going to happen. I'm still extremely lucky to have had the opportunity to shoot it at all.
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
If Buck says it is OK, I will post more pictures of it, including some of the internals, but only if its OK with him.
-Tutt
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Wow....beautiful indeed. Well done Buck, and many thanks to you for sharing that Andy. Small world to have you get your hands on it. That looks to be the ideal lever setup in many ways. I would have to believe there would be a solid niche for such a rifle if it could be produced today. I know I would be saving my pennies for one.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
By some strange co-inky-dink, I seem to be knowledgeable about, or involved in, the "cutting edge" of traditional leverguns chambered in the 454 Casull. I'm grateful to be a part of that process. And yes, I've spoken to none other than Bob Baker on the subject.
-Tutt
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Griff
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Griff,
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NRA Patron
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
awesome rifle!
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
I see it's based on the '86 action. Was the action created from scratch, or was it a '71 or '86 action with custom wood and barrel?
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Thanks for the article. Now Freedom Arms making a 454 in a lever, that would be worth every penny.CowboyTutt wrote:By some strange co-inky-dink, I seem to be knowledgeable about, or involved in, the "cutting edge" of traditional leverguns chambered in the 454 Casull. I'm grateful to be a part of that process. And yes, I've spoken to none other than Bob Baker on the subject.
-Tutt
Steve
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Gun Smith....Andy or Buck can chime in here, but it is neither. As I understand it, it is longer than a 92 to feed the 454 but shorter than the 86 action, and perhaps other mods that Buck would know about.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
The rifle was made from scratch and its supposed to be about 1/4 shorter than an 86 according to its current owner. The internals I think are slightly different from an 86 but I will let Buck speak to that if he wants too. An F.A. levergun would be very, very expensive and they have no plans to build one at present.
-Tutt
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Buck Elliott
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Thanks for posting the pictures and the story, Andy.
Would greatly appreciate it if you could e-mail me the photos you have.
Post whatever you feel like.
Would greatly appreciate it if you could e-mail me the photos you have.
Post whatever you feel like.
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Buck,Buck Elliott wrote:Thanks for posting the pictures and the story, Andy.
Would greatly appreciate it if you could e-mail me the photos you have.
Post whatever you feel like.
If Tutt doesn't get arountuit let me know. I saved them all to my computer.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Buck, I'd like to send you the full size versions of the pictures and I have more than what I posted. Can I burn them on to disc and mail them to you? It would be easier for me than using the internet. If you would PM me a mailing address I will get it out this week.
Would you like to tell us more details about how your rifle is built? Or how about that elk hunting story you told me? Everyone would love to hear about the rifle and what you have done with it.
-Tutt
Would you like to tell us more details about how your rifle is built? Or how about that elk hunting story you told me? Everyone would love to hear about the rifle and what you have done with it.
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Buck Elliott
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Thanks, Andy. Sent PM
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Hope you don't mind a question or two Andy. What was your impression of the recoil in a rifle of that weight, vs. a Puma? Standing up it may have been harder to tell. Were you using factory 454 loads?
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Cash, the recoil was not bad at all, even with the steel, shotgun-style buttplate (Good choice, Buck!). I would say it hurt less then my 454 Puma did with the original factory recoil pad. With the new squishy pad on the Puma its a toss up from standing.
Bear in mind, that from off-hand even my 375 H&H A.I. is not too bad with its premium pad. Standing is much more forgiving, but I do remember how much that Puma could kick in the old days. It left bruises.
Oh yeah, the loads were a slightly reduced load of 28 grains of Lil' Gun and a BR-4 primer which is one grain under minimum with that powder in the 454 Casull according to Hodgedon. Seems to work fine and I like the consistancy of the bench rest primer. It chronographs better than Hornady's factory stuff at any rate.
-Tutt
Bear in mind, that from off-hand even my 375 H&H A.I. is not too bad with its premium pad. Standing is much more forgiving, but I do remember how much that Puma could kick in the old days. It left bruises.
Oh yeah, the loads were a slightly reduced load of 28 grains of Lil' Gun and a BR-4 primer which is one grain under minimum with that powder in the 454 Casull according to Hodgedon. Seems to work fine and I like the consistancy of the bench rest primer. It chronographs better than Hornady's factory stuff at any rate.
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Thank you Tutt! I was curious about that....never shot a 454 before but have heard the tales of folks shooting the Puma.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Aw geez, no big deal my friend! Puma's weigh about 7 lbs and that 454 is the equal of a 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet, so do the math! Also, the factory recoil pad is a joke!
-Tutt
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Buck Elliott
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
The loads I ran through that rifle, regularly, were 315- to 325-gr. bullets at 2100 fps. Ballistically, it replicates the .45-90 HV loading.
Weight and balance of the rifle -- along with stock design -- make recoil very easy to deal with.
Weight and balance of the rifle -- along with stock design -- make recoil very easy to deal with.
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Those are some smokin' loads, Buck!
I hope the current owner repairs the very small crack in the wood and beds the stock to make her shootable again. She needs a little TLC.
-Tutt
I hope the current owner repairs the very small crack in the wood and beds the stock to make her shootable again. She needs a little TLC.
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Buck Elliott
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Those loads are (were) FA factory equivalent: 30- to 31-gr. H-110 in original NAA .454 Casull cases, with CCI Large Rifle Primers. those were also the loads I shot in my 7 1/2" FA revolver, for 1700 fps. They churn up nearly 65,000 psi (62,000 CUP) chamber pressure.
Tried bullet weights from 240-gr. up to 345-gr. Got the best, all-around results with the loads described above. I cast more bullets for that project than I'd have ever dreamed of. Didn't care much for any of the jacketed slugs I tried, with the possible exception of the FA 300-gr. JSP and the Speer 300-gr. PSP. None of the others were sufficiently accurate to matter, fired at .454 pressures & velocities. The 325-gr. hard-cast bullets just would not stop, for anything, including 2 bull elk at one shot, with the bullet leaving the scene...
I always saw the combination as a cast-bullet outfit, anyway, and it didn't let me down.
Tried bullet weights from 240-gr. up to 345-gr. Got the best, all-around results with the loads described above. I cast more bullets for that project than I'd have ever dreamed of. Didn't care much for any of the jacketed slugs I tried, with the possible exception of the FA 300-gr. JSP and the Speer 300-gr. PSP. None of the others were sufficiently accurate to matter, fired at .454 pressures & velocities. The 325-gr. hard-cast bullets just would not stop, for anything, including 2 bull elk at one shot, with the bullet leaving the scene...
I always saw the combination as a cast-bullet outfit, anyway, and it didn't let me down.
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Buck, were your lead bullets gas-checked? That bullet weight in lead does sound promising and I may have to try some. I do like the Hornady 300 XTP Mag bullets which are JHPs but obviously could squeeze more velocity with your recomendation of a slightly heavier lead bullet. I have recovered many of the XTPs and they are one tough bullet.
-Tutt
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
- Buck Elliott
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
Gas-checked bullets gave the best results, overall, and by a good margin. With the (nominal) 300-gr. FA/Lyman bullet, and an LBT 325-gr GC slug, I could cut round, cloverleaf groups at 100 yards from the bench, with the iron sights. The 345-gr LBT WFN (PB) was not quite as accurate, usually going into 3" or more at the same distance.CowboyTutt wrote:Buck, were your lead bullets gas-checked? That bullet weight in lead does sound promising and I may have to try some. I do like the Hornady 300 XTP Mag bullets which are JHPs but obviously could squeeze more velocity with your recomendation of a slightly heavier lead bullet. I have recovered many of the XTPs and they are one tough bullet.
-Tutt
The XTP Mag loads I tried were disappointingly inconsistant. Maybe I didn't clean the barrel well enough before firing them...
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
- CowboyTutt
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Re: Buck Elliot's Famous Rifle
I have various loads in 454 and 454 "Long" for my stetched Puma action in both jacketed and lead. I'll be shooting them between Christmas and New Years. I'll let you know how it goes. Obviously a different rifle altogether than yours! Hope to catch you by phone on Saturday!
-Tutt
-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel