.45 colt 300 gr hp... .458?

[m48shooter]

i came across bullets from an old timer for .454 cas... sold the dies but kept the bullets... i am loading and shooting the 300gr xpts that are listed as .452 in my rossi and will be shooting them in my blackhawk...

my question to the hive mind is if the bullets listed as .458 will be safe to shoot out of these firearms? i have read through all of my manuals and the internet and cannot find any ref to .458 jacketed hp in the .45 colt sections... im thinking about passing them on or trading them to my local supplier... load would be around 18gr of 4227... thx

[1886]

Most likely, 300gr .458 diameter bullets are for the .45-70. Not appropriate for a .45 cal. Blackhawk or any .45 Colt /.454 Casull chambered firearm. 1886.

[AJMD429]

Most likely, 300gr .458 diameter bullets are for the .45-70. Not appropriate for a .45 cal. Blackhawk or any .45 Colt /.454 Casull chambered firearm. 1886.

I agree. Trade them for some .452's, or get a .458 gun to shoot them in.

Better yet, get rid of all that "45" stuff and go with the .44 Mag and .444 Marlin - no ambiguity there - they both use the same diameter...

[Pisgah]

One of the guns Elmer Keith blew up was a Colt SAA loaded with .45-70 (.458) bullets over as much black powder as he could cram in the case. If Elmer could get this result with BP, I'd hate to think what a healthy dose of smokeless powder could get you!

[76/444]

[/quote] I agree. Trade them for some .452's, or get a .458 gun to shoot them in.

Better yet, get rid of all that "45" stuff and go with the .44 Mag and .444 Marlin - no ambiguity there - they both use the same diameter... [/quote]

===============================================


Nothing like a little 45/70 sacrilege to start the day!

[J Miller]

.458" bullets are for the 45-70, 45-90, and that family of rifle cartridges.
They would if used in a .45 Colt most likely not chamber, but if they did would raise pressure dramatically.

One of the guns Elmer Keith blew up was a Colt SAA loaded with .45-70 (.458) bullets over as much black powder as he could cram in the case. If Elmer could get this result with BP, I'd hate to think what a healthy dose of smokeless powder could get you!

You've got some of your details wrong. The gun Elmer was using the 300gr 45-70 bullet in did not KABOOM. AND he had resized the bullet to .454" for the Colt. What happened was a defective balloon head case blew out and took off the loading gate and a slice out of his thumb.

A healthy dose of smokeless powder with a properly sized 300gr jacketed bullet would get you a CorBon, Buffalo Bore, or Grizzly brand cartridge. Which if fired in an old Colt would most likely have undesired consequences.

Joe

[Mike D.]

A friend blew the top strap and part of the cylinder apart by placing a .45 colt cylinder in a .44 WCF SA and touching it off. He hadn't realized the big mistake until he pulled the trigger. The gun was rebuilt as a flattop with King adjustable sights. Back then a Ist Gen Colt shooter was valued at less that a hundred bucks.

[Pisgah]

.458" bullets are for the 45-70, 45-90, and that family of rifle cartridges.
They would if used in a .45 Colt most likely not chamber, but if they did would raise pressure dramatically.

One of the guns Elmer Keith blew up was a Colt SAA loaded with .45-70 (.458) bullets over as much black powder as he could cram in the case. If Elmer could get this result with BP, I'd hate to think what a healthy dose of smokeless powder could get you!

You've got some of your details wrong. The gun Elmer was using the 300gr 45-70 bullet in did not KABOOM. AND he had resized the bullet to .454" for the Colt. What happened was a defective balloon head case blew out and took off the loading gate and a slice out of his thumb.

A healthy dose of smokeless powder with a properly sized 300gr jacketed bullet would get you a CorBon, Buffalo Bore, or Grizzly brand cartridge. Which if fired in an old Colt would most likely have undesired consequences.

Joe

Really? Well, better tell John Taffin. Elmer gave him original copies of all of his letters to American Rifleman, and here's what he had to say about it:

"In the 1920's, a young cowpoke decided to celebrate the Fourth of July by firing his .45 Colt 5 1/2" SA.: "When the gun rose from recoil of the first cartridge I unconsciously hooked my thumb over the hammer spur and thus cocked gun as it recovered from recoil. When I turned the next one loose I was almost deafened by the report and saw a little flash of flame. My hand automatically cocked gun and snapped again but no report. I stopped then knowing something was wrong. The upper half of three chambers was gone. Also one cartridge and half of another case. Also the top strap over cylinder. My ears were ringing otherwise I was all O.K." (American Rifleman, August 15, 1925)

This was the beginning of Elmer Keith's long and colorful career as a gun-writer. Before that first article was written, Keith had been using heavy .45 Colt loads in the Colt Single Action made up with 300 grain bullets with a diameter of .458" originally intended for use in the .45- 90 lever action Winchester. The old blackpowder Colt finally gave up and Elmer Keith switched to the .44 Special and the rest is history. It is hard to believe that Keith was using .458" diameter bullets until one reads in his next article: "Don't know cause unless bullets oversize. I need a .45 Colt 454 bullet sizer. Know of one? The regular one on tool no good, makes them oval. Need a seperate one or a base first die for No. three tool." (American Rifleman, September 1,1925.)

[two bit okie]

I shoot 44 mag and have 6 of the them. But I would never knock another man's choice.

I have 180's, 200's, and 250's, jacketed and cast. and relativly latly I have been playing with 318 gr cast. all of my guns will take them but heavy loads of 296 (I will not give my charge because someone might put them in a smith 29.) and 318 grs of lead kick more than an old geezer with develoing artharitas enjoys in a 4 5/8. The 7 1/2 is bad enough.

As for 45 lc, there are molds for 310 gr, and that should just about please everone who loads and make pussycats to tigers.

go for it.

[J Miller]

Pisgah,

No need to tell Taffin anything. You've recounted one story in a different way than I had previously read it. I recounted a totally different story. We are both correct.
My info came from an article in a January 1969 Guns & Ammo titled "Elmer Keith picks his ... 'Favorite' loads.

Joe

[Buck Elliott]

I think you will find that .458" diameter bullets WILL NOT CHAMBER in a Freedom Arms .454 Casull revolver. The chamber dimensions & tolerances are far too tight to allow it.

IF you can by some means accomplish it, the resulting pressures may make the gun very unpleasant to fire, but no damage should be done to the firearm. DON'T try it with any other make of .454 revolver, or ALL bets are OFF...

[m48shooter]

thank you gentleman... i was planning to off load the bullets at my next trip to the reloadign supplier... and the it is nice to have such a knowlagble resorce at my finger tips... i am loading the hornady 300 gr .452's as we speak, just waiting for the second tumbler run... heading out for hogs and yotes on a new piece of land oened up to me.... grins, i just hope i can finallized the bh deal before i head out.... i am wanting a single load for my woodsbummin .45's and my converted 1858 will just not hold up... grins.. it is a hoot to shoot and was a great project though...

on that topic... i have not slugged the bbl, anyone know the bore dia for bp .44's, i have 200gr jacketed flat tips i am planning on running through it at standard colt pressures, but think i heard some where not to run jacketed bullets through the conversions....

btw mods pls let me know if you would like me to start a different thread for this question...