African Opinions on some American Levergun cartridges

[86er]

PH Safari Journal
"Comparison of light rifle cartridges for plains game using American short action cartridges with lightweight projectiles".

The 25-06 was compared but not included because it is a standard action cartridge. Nonetheless, it did not excel in any particular category. The 308 Marlin Express was visited but was not included because .30 is considered to be the threshold of medium bore cartridges and the 160 grain bullet is not repesentative of the typical bullet weight in .30 caliber cartridges. Again, it did not excel in any particular category.

243 (Included Winchester, Winchester SSM and non-standard 6mm diameter bullets with the parameters of short action cartridges.
100 gr Hornady - 3000 fps
Accuracy - 82%
Penetration - 60%
Expansion - 88%
Effectiveness on full range of plains game - 55%
105 gr - 2950 fps
Accuracy - 80%
Penetration - 64%
Expansion - 85%
Effectiveness - 58%
120 gr Nosler -2600 fpsAccuracy - 79%
Penetration - 69.5%
Expansion - 76%
Effectiveness - 64%

7mm-08
120 gr Nosler - 3000 fps
Accuracy - 92%
Penetration - 66.5%
Expansion - 86%
Effectiveness - 70%
139 gr Hornady - 2750 fps
Accuracy - 80%
Penetration - 71%
Expansion - 74%
Effectiveness - 69%
140 gr Accubond - 2700 fps
Accuracy - 89%
Penetration - 77%
Expansion - 78.5%
Effectiveness - 80.5%
150 gr Swift - 2600 fps
Accuracy - 82%
Penetration - 72%
Expansion - 83%
Effectiveness - 80%
160 gr Partition - 2550 fps
Accuracy -81%
Penetration - 80%
Expansion - 71%
Effectiveness - 74%

270 Winchester SSM
130 gr Nosler - 3100 fps
Accuracy - 76%
Penetration - 68%
Expansion - 88%
Effectiveness - 76%

150 gr Hornady
Accuracy - 80%
Penetration - 74%
Expansion - 70%
Effectiveness - 66%

The data represents the results as reported by 20 PH's over the course of one season with 46 clients taking a total of 213 plains game animals with all of the cartridge and bullet combinations listed. Overall, the 7mm-08 when coupled with the 140 grain Accubond bullet was the most recommended and trusted cartridge for use on the full range of plains game. This cartridge is particularly suited to the client that is small of stature, recoil sensitive or has other limiting issues that require the use of a light rifle.

HERE IS MY $.02!
The data is interesting but I can't figure out how they got percentages. Percent of what? Next, how is it that the accuracy, penetration and expansion could fare well but the effectiveness was out of proportion. I sent some e-mails for clarification and this is what I learned. The accuracy standard was 1" for 5 shots @ 100 yds. That's high hopes to begin with. The percentage represents how the clients groups compared to 1"-5 shots with their rifle and the client shooting. Not really a side-by-side comparison of the cartidges but more a study of how well clients shot their rifles. The penetration was judged based on if the cartridge made it to the opposite side of the animal whether it passed through or not. I think this is skewed by the difference in reedbok (40 pounds) and eland (2200 pounds) and the shot placement. Also, the same number of the same types of animals was not shot with each cartridge and loading. Expansion was based on the bullet diameter. So if they say 70% the bullet OR EXIT HOLE was measured to be 1.7X its diameter when expanded. Lastly, the effectiveness. This was subjective based on the PH's opinions. If the shot was a one shot kill and drop right there it would score 100%. If it was one shot kill and left a good blood trail for a short distance, it would get like a 95%. Less blood or longer tracking job would lower the score (even though it was still a one shot kill). If two shots were required to recover the animal, the score would drop like a rock. Again, a 2000 lbs eland and a 40 pound steenbok are totally different animals, especially when the bullet hits them. The final vote for the cartridge/bullet combo was left up to the PH without regard to the actual data. It was based on their overall observations, preferences and prejudices. They wanted to include a 25 caliber but no clients used a 257 Roberts, 25 WSSM or like short action 25. They viewed a 25-06 for comparison and told me it fell right in the middle of the cartridges examined with the limited experience they had with it. The 308 Marlin only accounted for 7 animals with one PH. He remarked that it was not as effective as a 308 Winchester but made the keen observation that "it was not fair to judge the 160 gr Hornady bullet against 165 and 180 gr Nosler, Swift and Barnes".

Soooooo, just interesting things to ponder if you have a BLR, 99, 88, XLR or other rifle in one of these calibers.

[rjohns94]

that is interesting indeed.

[76/444]

Accuracy - 82%
Penetration - 60%
Expansion - 88%
Effectiveness on full range of plains game - 55%

"The data is interesting but I can't figure out how they got percentages."



Exactly what came to my mind upon reading this! I can understand using a % for expansion. I can also stretch my mind a little and accept % in effectiveness, being that they would have a kill count to figure with.

But, using a % for accuracy or penetration,.... nah, that's where this and me part company!

Nice to read that the 7mm.08 did so well. I have never owned one but it has always intrigued me. thanks for posting.

[86er]

If you look at what they e-mailed me at the end of the post, there is more of an explanation. For instance, accuracy was based on 5 shots, and how many landed more than 1" from the point of aim. So it you shot 1" high, 1" right, 1" left, 1" low it would be 100%. More than 1" from point of aim and the % drops. Penetration was based on one side of animal to the other being 100% So under the hide on opposite side or pass through got 100%. Again, doesn't take into account animal size or shot placement. Expansion is based on original bullet diameter compared to expanded bullet or exit hole size. Effectiveness was more subjective but if a good shot made a drop on the spot is scored higher than a long tracking job even if one shot still did it. The overall #'s are good for comparisons but don't have a whole lot of meaning independently.

[RKrodle]

I thought it to be interesting but only as the overall result. It's also interesting in that Joe and I each bought the Stevens 200 rifle that was on sell just before Christmas in 7mm-08. We set down and discussed what we wanted from it and what type of load to develop for it. Joe having lots of experience with the 7mm Rem Mag, over 400 head of big game and a lover of the Nosler Partition, we decided on the 140 Accubond. So this made us feel good about our choice. So far I have only taken one head of big game with it and that was a doe at 150 yards with a quartering to me shot. The Accubond went in at the front of the front shoulder and exited out the off side ribs for about 20 inches of penetration. The doe couldn't hit the ground fast enough, DRT.

[76/444]

If you look at what they e-mailed me at the end of the post, there is more of an explanation. For instance, accuracy was based on 5 shots, and how many landed more than 1" from the point of aim. So it you shot 1" high, 1" right, 1" left, 1" low it would be 100%. More than 1" from point of aim and the % drops. Penetration was based on one side of animal to the other being 100% So under the hide on opposite side or pass through got 100%. Again, doesn't take into account animal size or shot placement. Expansion is based on original bullet diameter compared to expanded bullet or exit hole size. Effectiveness was more subjective but if a good shot made a drop on the spot is scored higher than a long tracking job even if one shot still did it. The overall #'s are good for comparisons but don't have a whole lot of meaning independently.

Well,... for me, "penetration" is effected by "Accuracy",... and "Accuracy", is TOTALLY dependent upon the the individual shooter and the ACCURACY of the individual weapon.

Since I read no statement qualifying those three points to my satisfaction,... I have to stick with my original opinion.

[Dave]

It is not surprising the 7-08 did well. The 7-08 may well be the perfect hunting round for most applications. People I know and I have killed a train car load of deer, hogs, and varmints with 243's but the 7-08 gives you light recoil, a short light gun, and 40 more grains of bullet weight. It makes a whole lot of sense for a hunting gun. Most of the new guns even have recoil pads. If I had the money I would buy a Remington 700 LSS in 7-08. I guess if I sold my 308 I never have even killed one thing with I could get it.

[Blaine]

The more I learn about medium power 7mm, the happier I am that I lucked into that 88 in 284......

[Mike Rintoul]

Thanks for explaining the percentages. Had you not e-mailed them for clarification and provided it I would have been lost. It is noteworthy that while the SD is slightly greater on the 150 gr .277 bullet than the 150 gr .284 bullet the .284 got better "scores". My guess is that this can be attributed to the .277 being primarily designed for somewhat less velocity that is attained in the 270 Winchester. The trajectory of all these cartridges with these bullet weight is very similar so I think it was fair to lump them together, give the other parameters. I wonder if they do these comparisons with European cartridges or do they just pick on us Americans? It is definitely useful information if you are looking to load one of these calibers or if you are pondering a purchase of one of them.

[crs]

Amusing statistics!
When I was overnighting at a guest house in Johannesburg, SA, I met a group of hunters returning to the southeastern US from Botswana. They had all filled their tickets, but one man was especially proud of his ten (10) year old son, who had taken five antelope with five (5) one shot kills (including a Gemsbok) with his 7mm-08. None of the four adult men had done so well. The young man was more modest and said it was a lot like shooting whittail deer back home.

A friend of mine and fellow DWWC member has been to SA four or five times and after his first trip with his .300 Win Mag, he switched over to his 7mm-08 and has had great success with it shooting plainsgame.

Another DWWC member that hunts Africa multiple times per year has taken more than a dozen leopards and has finally settled on a Marlin .45-70 as his ideal leopard rifle.

Oops! I forgot about the outfitters wife in Colorado that used a .243 as her elk rifle. When I asked about penetration, she said she had not had a problem with that, as all her bullets exited the other side of the elks head She shoots them in the ear -

Marksmanship and field skills do make a great difference and actions mean more than words and statistics.

[awp101]

I thought it to be interesting but only as the overall result. It's also interesting in that Joe and I each bought the Stevens 200 rifle that was on sell just before Christmas in 7mm-08.

Did you and Joe ever find out what twist you have? The guys on the Savage board are talking about the 120 grainers shooting better than the 140 grainers in the new 11.5" twist. Of course a bunch of them are benchresters/varminters so their idea of "accuracy" and mine are probably two different things...

I haven't shot mine yet but I'll try and remember to check the twist this evening.

[RKrodle]

I thought it to be interesting but only as the overall result. It's also interesting in that Joe and I each bought the Stevens 200 rifle that was on sell just before Christmas in 7mm-08.

Did you and Joe ever find out what twist you have? The guys on the Savage board are talking about the 120 grainers shooting better than the 140 grainers in the new 11.5" twist. Of course a bunch of them are benchresters/varminters so their idea of "accuracy" and mine are probably two different things...

I haven't shot mine yet but I'll try and remember to check the twist this evening.

I found contradicting info on the savage web site as to twist. The 140's shot good enough for me, let me know what yours checks at.

[Dave James]

Where did they come up with a 120 grain bullet for the 243????

[awp101]

I thought it to be interesting but only as the overall result. It's also interesting in that Joe and I each bought the Stevens 200 rifle that was on sell just before Christmas in 7mm-08.

Did you and Joe ever find out what twist you have? The guys on the Savage board are talking about the 120 grainers shooting better than the 140 grainers in the new 11.5" twist. Of course a bunch of them are benchresters/varminters so their idea of "accuracy" and mine are probably two different things...

I haven't shot mine yet but I'll try and remember to check the twist this evening.

I found contradicting info on the savage web site as to twist. The 140's shot good enough for me, let me know what yours checks at.

Well, the guys on the Savage board say Savage has gone to the new twist and Savage confirmed it but would not say why.

And ding-dang if I can figure out what twist I've got. I tried three times and got three different measurements... None were as low as 9.5" but they ranged from 10.5" to 13.5". I suspect it's the 11.5".

[71fan]

Where did they come up with a 120 grain bullet for the 243????

+1 I'd sure like to know too. Maybe European?

[crs]

Ricky,
If you dig up my old post on "twisting" my 1886 .45-90, and follow the second method, you can figure out the twist . As in most mechanical methods, several repeated measurements will give you enough data to determine which are the real deal and which are "flyers".
Or, if you like, we can check it out at the hog hunt. You have to provide the 7mm cleaning rod, and swab, jag, brush, ?? and masking tape though.

Heck, maybe even 86er knows how to twist.

[86er]

I e-mailed about the 120 gr 243's and was told DTAC and Stewart Hi-Performer (120) and Berger (115 gr).

[KirkD]

Fascinating. Thank you for posting that information.

[pharmseller]

Effectiveness = dead animal, quickly.

How many of the animals were DRT v. requiring multiple hits?

P