Trail Boss powder

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:06 pm

Has anyone tried Trail Boss? If so, how do you like it, and what loads can it be used for? I'm trying to build up my powder supply, but since my funds are limited I want to try to use versatile powders. I picked up some Unique, 3031, and R-7 today, but am looking for other useful powders also. I shoot almost exclusively cast bullets, and Trail Boss says it's made for cast.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:13 pm

I use it in almost every levergun I own for light plinking cast bullet loads..32-20,.30-30,.308MX,.32 special, .444,.45-70, .45 Colt, .44mag. and the .50-95 all have given accurate and light recoiling low noise and just plain fun loads.

Give it a try, I think you will like it.

There is lots of data out there but if an oddball caliber is encountered. select a bullet weight like the factory used for the cartridge. Find the location in the case where the bullets base will be when seated. fill a case to that point with Trail Boss and weigh it. 70% of that will be the starting load.
You can increase that by small amounts until best accuracy
is found but Hodgdens says never to compress TB.
Have fun!

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:31 am

Thanks. I know if I do some searching I can probably find some data. My manuals are a few years old and, I'll have to check again, but I don't think they have any Trail Boss info. Is this a fast velocity powder, or moderate velocity for plinking, etc? I appreciate the info.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:58 am

It's an anemic velocity powder. It cannot even match black powder velocities without well exceeding black pressures. It has a use as a fun and relatively (if you follow instructions) goof proof plinking powder.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:15 am

I used Trailboss in an old Marlin 1895 in 40-82 caliber ! This gun was of 1896 vitage but still a good shooter .

I loaded some rounds for this old gun with the Lyman 260 grain PB bullet and I think 12 or 14 grains of Trailboss . Now believe it our not that stuff is so fluffy that small amount pretty much filled the case !

HEAD0001 · Post by **HEAD0001** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:53 am

I tried it in a couple of revolver cartridges. Not much success. I am getting ready to try it in a sub sonic 223 load for a new varmint rig. I have been reading some good reviews for it for sub-sonics. Tom.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:44 am

Leverluver wrote:It's an anemic velocity powder. It cannot even match black powder velocities without well exceeding black pressures. It has a use as a fun and relatively (if you follow instructions) goof proof plinking powder.

I have been interested in Trail Boss for awhile,.... but due to certain opinions/replies decided to play with H4198 for awhile .

I would be very interested in browsing over the pressure data you state above, Leverluver,... can you link me up?

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:55 am

It does what it was designed to do just fine. Give full case loads and mousefart velocity and accuracy capable of hitting pickup door sized steel plates at 15yds.
I like it fine in most handgun cartridges, great stuff for younger inexperienced shooters to learn to handle full sized guns like the Ruger 44's etc. It also makes a 32 hr about like a 22.
I don't find any need for it in a rifle, much to much pressure for the velocity given, and not to much to brag about for accuracy.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:49 am

76

There is lots of Trail Boss pressure data in the newer Hogdons annual manuals although a lot of my thoughts on it are based on my own pressure tests. Like Don said, it is a low velocity powder that a newbie can use and not make the most easy and dangerous newbie mistake of double charging a case. In a rifle cartridge, it is basically a subsonic velocity powder. For those that like or need a lower noise factor, that is another plus to consider. I just personally have no need for low noise nor really low velocities and their football rainbow trajectories. That is not to say that it wouldn't satisfy a lot of other folks needs.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:24 pm

Found this:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... n16866645/

Steve

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:27 pm

Many say that Trail Boss wont give good accuracy.
That has not been my findings.

.45-70 50yd. 13gr.

.444 50yd. 14gr.

It gives good accuracy at low velocity.
Small game hunting with your .30-30 or .45-70 is a fun way to get ready for big game season.
Why practice with a .22 when you can walk the bunny woods with the real thing???

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:42 pm

Thanks Steve!

Hmmm,... along with some claiming poor accuracy, Chuck,.. is whimpy velocities.

These don't seem so bad to me.......but I am not into max loads anyway.

IMR TRAIL BOSS "LONG RANGE RIFLE" DATA

CARTRIDGE BULLET CHARGE VELOCITY CHARGE VELOCITY
(TYPE) (WEIGHT) (STARTING) (FPS) (MAXIMUM) (FPS)

.25-35 WCF 90 LFPGC 5.5 1,224 8.0 1,414
.30-30 WCF 160 LFN 6.5 997 9.0 1,195
.32-40 WCF 196 LFN 5.0 833 6.0 935
.38-55 WCF 250 LFN 6.0 842 7.0 911
.40-65 WCF 400 LRNFP 11.0 889 12.0 915
.45-70 Govt 300 LFP 14.0 1,199 16.5 1,285
.45-70 Govt 405 LFP 12.0 971 13.0 1,007

COPYRIGHT 2007 Publishers' Development Corporation
COPYRIGHT 2008 Gale, Cengage Learning

Landric · Post by **Landric** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:55 pm

I really like Trail Boss for light plinking loads, mostly in revolvers. I use it for my IDPA/SSR 200 grain .38 Specials that make power factor at low velocities. Its nice being able to make power factor with such little recoil.

I've tried it some in rifle, .30-30 and .45-70, and it worked nicely in both for low recoil, low velocity plinking loads. I think its a pretty useful powder. I have about ten pounds of it in my handloading room at the moment.

.30-30, 8 grains of TB with a 165 grain RNFP averaged 1170 fps out of a 20" Marlin 336

.45-70, 13 grains of TB with a 405 grain RNFP averaged 1035 fps out of a 22" Handi-Rifle

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:19 pm

Hey Chuck 100 yd - you trying to be a trouble maker? Trail Boss is *&%#. The only thing it is good for is bumping up bullets with it's extreme pressure spikes.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:52 pm

The "Wimpy Velocities" thing is exactly why Trail Boss was developed. That is what it's for, so you can load down and not have to worry about double-charging revolver cartridges, the which can lead to disastrous results. ( I have 3 beautiful Colt SAAs in my shop that succombed to double-dipped loads of W-231...)

If you want higher velocities, there is any number of powders to fit your pistol, but Trail Boss is definitely a niche product.

I use TB in .45 Colt loads put together for CAS and for lazy afternoons plinking. Works well for its intended purpose.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:47 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:The "Wimpy Velocities" thing is exactly why Trail Boss was developed. That is what it's for, so you can load down and not have to worry about double-charging revolver cartridges, the which can lead to disastrous results. ( I have 3 beautiful Colt SAAs in my shop that succombed to double-dipped loads of W-231...)

If you want higher velocities, there is any number of powders to fit your pistol, but Trail Boss is definitely a niche product.

I use TB in .45 Colt loads put together for CAS and for lazy afternoons plinking. Works well for its intended purpose.

Buck nailed it - light loads while reducing (not eliminating) the chances of double-charging.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:27 pm

Do any of you measure Trail Boss by volume rather than weight? I like Little Dandy RCBS rotors & Lee Dipppers. I have some TBoss but have never used any of it.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:01 pm

I always use a powder measure to throw Trail Boss, after first checking the setting with my scale of course.

Trail boss meters very accurately.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:36 am

So, basically, Trail Boss was developed for CAS and light duty plinking? I kind of thought so by the look of it. Might have to try it out one of these days. Looks like it shoots tight.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:42 am

Shooter,

Trail Boss is a super puffy powder, formulated specifically to work in larger cartridge cases of the "cowboy era" type, by filling them up without creating dangerously high pressures. It is a relatively fast burning powder in the Bullseye range.

Let's take a common application: the .45 Colt loads (that is, "Long Colt" as some call it, which infuriates several here, as opposed to the .45 ACP round). Since the .45 Colt case was originally intended for black powder, a safe load of smokeless powders such as Unique or Bullseye requires that you leave a lot of space in this large case. This reportedly can cause irregular ignition if the revolver is not held in the same vertical alignment between shots. And it opens up a higher probability of double-charges (even though we all know that you should check each load visually or use a device in your press that shows you the load depth of each charge).

IMR formulated this special propellant specifically for use in low pressure loads in large volume cartridges to deal with this - for "older" type cartridges that hail from the black powder era, such as .44 Special, .45 Colt, .44-40, and so on, as mentioned above. Per the IMR people:
"Trail Boss is designed specifically for low velocity lead bullet loads suitable for Cowboy Action shooting. It is primarily a pistol powder, but has some application in rifle. It is based on a whole new technology which allows very high loading density, good flow through powder measures, stability in severe temperature variation and most importantly, additional safety to the handloader."
( http://www.imrpowder.com/trailboss.html )

You should be able to find a photograph of the powder by entering "Trail Boss" in your Google or similar search engine and browsing a bit. This large volume, lightweight powder owes its properties to its shape - flaky little donuts. Each flake has a large hole in the center. So if you want cowboy type low velocity loads with lead bullets, that's a good way to go.

In my opinion, cowboy type loads are the only reason for the powder, since it is not any cheaper to use when you add up the cost per round.

I made up some .44 Special level loads (power and velocity-wise) in .44 Magnum cases with the stuff. It performed as expected, per my chronograph. I did not run extensive 50 yard accuracy tests with it, but merely wanted to check it for consistency and function.

I am puzzled by Chuck 100yd's statement that the powder measures accurately. I hastily acknowledge that he has been loading much longer and with more frequency than I have. But my personal experience is diametrically opposite his, as for the consistency of throwing charges of Trail Boss. I quickly decided that I dislike reloading with the stuff. It's so flaky, that the only way that I could reliably load it was with a dipper. It shares this characteristic with Red Dot, another fine, flaky, fast gunpowder. At least Red Dot is pretty inexpensive to use on low pressure loads.

With Trail Boss, my Lee Auto Disk measure got all messed up, even though I have it properly adjusted, use graphite on it to keep the drag down, and follow all the recommended procedures and tricks of the old pros to ensure its proper operation. The powder gets "around" the disk and I have inconsistent loads with that device using Trail Boss.

My two RCBS Uniflow measures both had the same problem - some perfect loads, some light loads, some overloads due to the powder slipping around the cylinder and dumping with the load within the dumping chamber.

Let's get some things out of the way: I follow the well established routine of using a consistent speed and throw of the charging lever; of rapping the device three times with my finger between each throw, and of making sure that the equipment is clean and dry between loadings.

One RCBS measure is relatively new and is a standalone device. The other one is older and sits atop a progressive press I use for pistol rounds (RCBS Piggyback atop an old RCBS Rockchucker).

So - three devices, all well maintained and in good condition, cannot consistently measure out a proper dose of Trail Boss. Only a Lee dipper works for me. I won't use Trail Boss again unless I decide to specifically make a batch of low velocity "Cowboy Action" loads, which I don't see happening in my future. Even my plinking loads aren't ultra slow, and I'm not an SASS (Cowboy Action) or related type of shooter.

Bottom Line: It's definitely not for me. There are better powders for my uses that meter far more easily and reliably. It may not be for you. But it appears to be a terrific powder for the narrow use for which it was intended for - large cases with slower cast bullets, and primarily the pistol calibers that are carryovers from the blackpowder days.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:52 am

I think Trail Boss was brought in from Australia for the current trend of the industry to cater to the cowboy shooters. Just as Marlin stepped away from the micro groove barrel,... to satisfy the cowboy lead shooters.

One of my close friends was in the top ten of mounted national shooter (first to get there on a mule) before illness made him quit. He not only loaded thousands of rounds a day with a special loading rig he created(he is a machinist by occupation) as a side business ,... but he also ALMOST created a self inflating balloon system for the event. I say almost because even though he has a working model, it just never reached a reliable enough point for production.

Ahhhhh... but I digress

my point is, ... with the mass amount of reloading needed for these events, DOUBLE CHARGES where the main point of contention to overcome. At least that is what he related to me, where Trail Boss filled the nitch.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:56 am

Mounted shooting is an entire different deal. Its only fired with blackpowder blanks provided by the shoot sponsors.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:19 am

I have used Trail Boss in a good number of different cartridges: 30-30, 357, 45-70, 444, 44-40.
Accuracy has been good for me in each case and metering does not seem to be a problem, I have had a lot of fun with it and have used it for both Pistol Cartridge Lever Silhouette (44-40 and 357) and Big Bore Lever Silhouette (45-70), I like it

msmith1228 · Post by **msmith1228** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:33 am

I use Trail Boss for 45-70 and 40-65 plinking loads, I thought was a little wimpy for 38-55. It meters extremely well out of a Lee Auto-Disk but I changed the spring on mine and everything seems to work better.
Mack

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:10 pm

I have a can of Trail Boss that was awarded as a prize in a shoot.

It's the only can I've used... I find it FAR too expensive to justify its purchase. I still reload to save money... maybe I'm nitpickin', but when it takes 6.5 grains of TB to reach 855fps with a 200 gr boolit in my .45 Colt, and I can get 822fps outta 5.0 grains of 700-X... it's no contest.

Looking at costs, IMR Trail Boss Smokeless Powder 5 lb @ $98.99 = 1.8¢ per round, whereas with IMR Hi-Skor 700-X Smokeless Powder 4 lb
@ $64.99, that same round calculates out to 1.1¢ per round. And let's just say I want to save a little more, buying that same 700-X in an 8 lb jug would run $117.99, but reduce the powder cost per round to 1.05¢.

No, that doesn't mean much when you calculate it out to a coupla hundred rounds per month... but, for a serious competitor, that's shooting 50K rounds per year... That's $375 in powder savings, enough to buy 3 extra 8 lb jugs of that 700-X powder.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:51 pm

My metering experience with Trail Boss has been confined to throwing charges with an older RCBS powder measure. It seems consistent enough for my needs, coming in at +/- 0.1 grain from the primary setting.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:33 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Mounted shooting is an entire different deal. Its only fired with blackpowder blanks provided by the shoot sponsors.

Hmmmm,... maybe you don't read very good. I just got through posting that my buddy loaded up their competition rounds with TRAIL BOSS!

And they are NOT BLANKS ,... they are loaded with ground up corn cob.

How the hell do you think blanks could pop balloons?

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:41 pm

10. AMMUNITION

A. All mounted shooting blanks used in CMSA WPQ matches,demonstrations, official practices sanctioned, approved or covered by the CMSA’s spectator liability policy shall be CMSA certified and approved. All certified mountedshooting blank providers shall submit 100 rounds of their mounted shooting blanks to CMSA for testing & certification approval. Each mounted shooting blank provider upon approval shall be issued a numbered CMSA approved mounted shooting blank provider certificate. This approved mounted shooting blank provider certificate number shall be included with all WPQ match results. All CMSA approved mounted shooting blanks shall consistently burst properly inflated helium grade targets from a distance of not less than 10 feet and not more than 20 feet.

B. No blank shall have an effective range longer than 20 feet for competitor and spectator safety.

C. If the quality of the match-supplied ammunition is in question, any CMSA Competition Card holder may purchase 50 rounds of said ammunition & submit it to CMSA for analysis.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:49 pm

Don McDowell wrote:10. AMMUNITION

A. All mounted shooting blanks used in CMSA WPQ matches,demonstrations, official practices sanctioned, approved or covered by the CMSA’s spectator liability policy shall be CMSA certified and approved. All certified mountedshooting blank providers shall submit 100 rounds of their mounted shooting blanks to CMSA for testing & certification approval. Each mounted shooting blank provider upon approval shall be issued a numbered CMSA approved mounted shooting blank provider certificate. This approved mounted shooting blank provider certificate number shall be included with all WPQ match results. All CMSA approved mounted shooting blanks shall consistently burst properly inflated helium grade targets from a distance of not less than 10 feet and not more than 20 feet.

B. No blank shall have an effective range longer than 20 feet for competitor and spectator safety.

C. If the quality of the match-supplied ammunition is in question, any CMSA Competition Card holder may purchase 50 rounds of said ammunition & submit it to CMSA for analysis.

I don't care if you have a quote from Pope John Paul the 1st, saying blanks pop balloons!

Blanks don't shoot projectiles to cause damage to a target!

Annnnnnnnnnd,... he uses TRAIL BOSS!

jorgy · Post by **jorgy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:14 pm

I agree with Cowboy Kell 100%. I bought 2 cans of Trail Boss. Tried in
38/55 & 30/30. I couldn't believe it. I thought I was shooting a BB gun.
I went to my old loads of IMR 3031 30 grains & 265 cast CG bullet for the 38/55 & 30 grains of 3031 & 170 cast bullet GC for the 30/30.
Ended up selling those 2 cans at a gun show. Won't buy it again!!
Unuf said.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:20 pm

Use Trail Boss for the purposes for which it was engineered. ONLY.

You can't turn it into 4064 or 3031 or even 4198 or 4895. Not even 231 or Red Dot or H-110. Don't try.

READ THE BOOK

Happy now...???

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:23 pm

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:11 pm

76/444 wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:10. AMMUNITION
A. All mounted shooting blanks used in CMSA WPQ matches,demonstrations, official practices sanctioned, approved or covered by the CMSA’s spectator liability policy shall be CMSA certified and approved. All certified mountedshooting blank providers shall submit 100 rounds of their mounted shooting blanks to CMSA for testing & certification approval. Each mounted shooting blank provider upon approval shall be issued a numbered CMSA approved mounted shooting blank provider certificate. This approved mounted shooting blank provider certificate number shall be included with all WPQ match results. All CMSA approved mounted shooting blanks shall consistently burst properly inflated helium grade targets from a distance of not less than 10 feet and not more than 20 feet.
B. No blank shall have an effective range longer than 20 feet for competitor and spectator safety.
C. If the quality of the match-supplied ammunition is in question, any CMSA Competition Card holder may purchase 50 rounds of said ammunition & submit it to CMSA for analysis.
I don't care if you have a quote from Pope John Paul the 1st, saying blanks pop balloons!
Blanks don't shoot projectiles to cause damage to a target!
Annnnnnnnnnd,... he uses TRAIL BOSS!

Well, If Pope John Paul doesn't count; take from me and my several buckles in mounted shooting competition from the '90s ('93-'99 competitively, then a real slacker for a few years), BP blanks DO destroy balloons out to about 15 yards.

Pictures being worth a thousand words:

Each and every one of those were BP loads. Pretty much a ¾ case full with either a card wad & Elmer's to hold it in, or that foam stuff that holds flowers that florists use. BP blanks pretty much destroy balloons due to their flames. It doesn't take any projectile. Anything but blanks and you endanger any spectators.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:19 pm

Blanks don't shoot anything,... from what I know of crimped case blanks blanks.

Card stock, foam, corn cob,... are ALL PROJECTILES to me!

BLANKS have NO PROJECTILES loaded in them, imo!

No offense intended,...but I don't think my friend is lying to me when he tells me he loads trail Boss and ground up corn cob,

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:45 am

They aint saying he's lieing, their saying those are still blanks. Guess its a difference of opinion on what constitutes a blank....... I dont shoot blanks so I wouldn't know.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:56 am

Cute one Leverdude!!!

But if I ran dry, needed to shoot, but could only use rocks, rock salt or nails,...I wouldn't call them blanks. If a cartridge destroys what I am shooting at,... a "blank" just doesn't seem to fit my definition. But I could be wrong.

jmo

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:06 am

Chuck 100 yd wrote:
There is lots of data out there but if an oddball caliber is encountered. select a bullet weight like the factory used for the cartridge. Find the location in the case where the bullets base will be when seated. fill a case to that point with Trail Boss and weigh it. 70% of that will be the starting load.
You can increase that by small amounts until best accuracy
is found but Hodgdens says never to compress TB.
Have fun!

I have heard of this formula for starting loads, but what is the max? 10% more? (equalling 77% of net case volume) Or is it higher, say, 90% or 100% of the net case volume? I guess by defintion 100% would not be compressed, yet.

You can never be sure best accuracy has been found until you've tried all the levels that are safe. Considering it's such a low velocity powder, I might want to max out and check the accuracy there.

I bought a can (currently unopened) because the guy at Hodgdon raved about it. I need to shoot lead bullets in 30-30 and 35 Rem and have not been having much luck with rifle powders in the 1500 fps range. Worth a try I guess.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:07 am

El Chivo wrote:
Chuck 100 yd wrote:
There is lots of data out there but if an oddball caliber is encountered. select a bullet weight like the factory used for the cartridge. Find the location in the case where the bullets base will be when seated. fill a case to that point with Trail Boss and weigh it. 70% of that will be the starting load.
You can increase that by small amounts until best accuracy
is found but Hodgdens says never to compress TB.
Have fun!
I have heard of this formula for starting loads, but what is the max? 10% more? (equalling 77% of net case volume) Or is it higher, say, 90% or 100% of the net case volume? I guess by defintion 100% would not be compressed, yet.

You can never be sure best accuracy has been found until you've tried all the levels that are safe. Considering it's such a low velocity powder, I might want to max out and check the accuracy there.

I bought a can (currently unopened) because the guy at Hodgdon raved about it. I need to shoot lead bullets in 30-30 and 35 Rem and have not been having much luck with rifle powders in the 1500 fps range. Worth a try I guess.

I believe the max for that formula is at the base of the bullet but not compressed. I'm not sure I'd try it in bottleneck cases though. There is published data for it in 30/30 & 35 anyway I believe.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:08 pm

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:08 am

I've used it in 357 cases with 158swc @ 3.5-4.0 (prefer 3.5) and 30/30 using Hornady 86gr JSP with 9.0-11.0gr. 9gr didn't expand the case enough so went to 10gr, which was an improvement but not enough so tried 11gr with useful accuracy out to 50yds with the 86grainer. It left enough space in the case that I could get away with using 110gr carbine bullets, but haven't tried them yet.
I've heard that 10gr Unique is a pretty good load with the lighter bullets, you might want to check that out since you've already got the powder. HTH

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:14 am

Wow it's 3 years later and I can update my previous post.

I think Trailboss is consistent in accuracy, but not great. Some other powders can give me tighter groups but then go wild if I try a different caliber or strength. Trailboss was always ok but never great.

But I can get slightly better accuracy from several other powders if the load is right.

The big problem for me was in the metering. Those flakes stick to everything. And I had problems with clumping. I was weighing and pouring and all of the sudden one round overflowed. I thought I'd made a weighing error (a BIG weighing error) and redid it. Later on it happened again. I knew I had weighed well, so got suspicious. I re-weighed the previous case and it was light. So, some of the stuff I dumped in case A ended up in case B. I played around with it and found it was clumping in the funnel. Some of the charge stayed in the funnel and when the second charge was dumped, it all went in.

So I ended up re-weighing all the rounds, and found many pairs that were off. Some clumps weren't big enough to cause an overflow, so the imbalance was hidden.

It was enjoyable to shoot, in 30-30 I think I was at about 900 fps. I was hitting the 200 yard gong with it quite consistently. But it wasn't worth the headache of clumping and sticking.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:00 am

Never ceases to amaze how somone can come along a dig a thread that died 3 years ago out of the bottom of the pile and take off with it like it was just fresh.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:13 am

Don McDowell wrote: Never ceases to amaze how somone can come along a dig a thread that died 3 years ago out of the bottom of the pile and take off with it like it was just fresh.

Yeap, still amazes me that some people think they can make chicken salad out of chicken %$#&.

TrailBoss was designed for

1. Low velocity for Cowboy Action Shooting REGULATIONS
2. Bulk Loads to fill large capacity cases
3. To aid in preventing an otherwise undetected double charge IN THE LARGE CAPACITY CASES

I use it in 45 Colt, 44-40 for plinking, 38s for misc varmints and plinking. I have great results in the 45 ACP for mild accurate loads in my firearm with amazingly decent self defense velocities.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:24 pm

I recently worked up a couple handfuls of loads using TB and hardcast and plated bullets for my .357 and got no where near the accuracy I get with Unique. Accuracy was border line for plinkin and not good enough for small/medium game like I was hoping. Just the gun? Probably but it moved it to the back burner for trying in other calibers for now.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:04 pm

JohndeFresno , Friend, I think that you had a bridging issue with your measures.
What size exit spouts are on your measures? If you have a small opening in the
exit the powder can bridge there and it will dump one light and the next charge heavy.
Using a large spout will stop that issue.
If powder can get past the cylinder (drum) of your
measure than it would be cause for throwing it in the junk (or returning for repair)as the drum should precision fitted to the outer housing making that impossible.
I have both RCBS and Saeco powder measures and they both drop TB with accuracy.
I have loaded and shot thousands of CAS loads and have NEVER had an issue as you describe.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:21 pm

El Chivo You must have a lot of static electricity causing it to cling to everything.

I have not had that problem with TB but do with Tite Group. It (TG) will cling to my measures
hopper like glue. When I change powder types I have to blow it out with compressed air. The
Charges are uniform though.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:11 pm

Chuck 100 yd wrote:JohndeFresno , Friend, I think that you had a bridging issue with your measures.
What size exit spouts are on your measures? If you have a small opening in the
exit the powder can bridge there and it will dump one light and the next charge heavy.
Using a large spout will stop that issue.
If powder can get past the cylinder (drum) of your
measure than it would be cause for throwing it in the junk (or returning for repair)as the drum should precision fitted to the outer housing making that impossible.
I have both RCBS and Saeco powder measures and they both drop TB with accuracy.
I have loaded and shot thousands of CAS loads and have NEVER had an issue as you describe.

Chuck,
I have used the same spout on my one stand-mounted RCBS measures for every load, from .223 to .45-70, .32 Auto to .44's and .45 Colt, since I started reloading. The other one is on a stand mounted affair that sits atop my RCBS Piggyback Progressive Press. But it has too charging discs, and I never used the other one. I was puzzled why I had problems and so many others, like you, didn't have that problem.

Thank you for the advice; I'm never to old to learn. I'll try another spout with the stuff when I get a chance to get back to the bench. I'll have to see if the measure on my progressive press is flawed, since it has no limiting spout. I do know that I have no problems with any other powder except Red Dot, which I also measure with a scoop and scale backup.