OT Shot size

[Rusty]

From time to time there is talk about what shot size is best for around the house. I just thought I'd pass along results from a simple test. I have an old trailer that I am in the process of tearing down. From aprox. 18 feet I fired a single round of 20 ga 7 1/2 shot inside the trailer. I got a large raged hole in the wall being shot at. The drywall on the other side had a large portion missing in the middle of the pattern with fine holes surrounding it. The opposite wall which is another 10 feet away had a pattern of aprox. 4' wide with a nice round hole in the middle of it where the wad passed through. Had someone been in the room I doubt they would have received a lethal wound unless the wad caused a great deal of damage but it certainly would have required medical treatment and caused a great deal of discomfort.

[Blaine]

Not my first choice, but a low brass bird shot at 10 feet, aimed at the face, would bring the conflice to a sudden end, if for no other reason his face and eyes would be shredded.

[86er]

There's a guy that's been around shotgunning for a long time named Bill Hanus. I used to refer to him as Bill H. Anus because he said some strange things. Anyway, he once wrote of story of using #9 shot for Canadian geese. His theory was that the pattern was so dense with the small shot that all those pellets would collectively dump their energy in the bird for a higher total impact energy than a few smaller pellets. I guess he forgot about penetration and other factors of lethality. Nonetheless, a lot of little pellets in a small area (close range) do create havoc on whatever is in their way. I've had the unpleasant experience of seeing a handful of people that were shot with shotguns. One was from a slug but the rest were with "bird shot". All of the wounds were very destructive and most were deadly.

[Hobie]

I used to know a fellow who ran bear with dogs (legal here). He once bounced 2 slugs off a bear's skull and killed it with a load of low brass #8s (his dove load) delivered under the chin into the brain. As I understand it he was a little closer than the 28" his shotgun barrel might have given him!

[nemhed]

More anecdotal evidence for the file. I recently watched a medium sized raccoon soak up 5 rounds of 7 1/2 field loads from a modified choke 20 gauge at a distance of approximately 35 feet. It appeared to just make him really mad. A 22lr to his brain pan ended his misery. I don't think the average human would have done as well. Just sayin'...

[shooter]

I've seen those raccoons soak up an awful lot of lead and keep on fightin'. I shot one I thought was rabid with 4 rounds of .357. Walking by that spot a couple hours later I was surprised to see the raccoon sitting up, madder than heck. I felt sorry for the poor guy, but I thought it was dead when I left. I finished it off with a .22 to the head. Those little buggers can sure take some punishment.

[Blaine]

I shot one out of a tree with a high brass #4 Squill load, it was not phased much. It was a single shot. It hit the ground running right at me and my....things..... I was very busy for awhile keeping it off me and reloading.

[JB]

There's a guy that's been around shotgunning for a long time named Bill Hanus. I used to refer to him as Bill H. Anus because he said some strange things. Anyway, he once wrote of story of using #9 shot for Canadian geese. His theory was that the pattern was so dense with the small shot that all those pellets would collectively dump their energy in the bird for a higher total impact energy than a few smaller pellets. I guess he forgot about penetration and other factors of lethality. Nonetheless, a lot of little pellets in a small area (close range) do create havoc on whatever is in their way. I've had the unpleasant experience of seeing a handful of people that were shot with shotguns. One was from a slug but the rest were with "bird shot". All of the wounds were very destructive and most were deadly.

He must have been shooting those geese at a very close range!

Small shot isn't very effective at longer ranges, it's just simple physics. But at close range it's a different story. At room distance I don't think the shot size is going to make a big difference. It's all going to do massive damage. My dad once told me about seeing a guy shot at "room distance" with a load of bird shot. He died just as fast and just as dead as any buckshot would have killed him.

[Griff]

I don't believe in using a shotgun for home defense. I don't think it's as effective as some would have you believe.

I didn't witness this, nor was I a participant... but I knew the guys involved, and read the reports. Short story, two plain clothes detectives and a deputy were questioning an individual about some heavy construction equipment on the property he was residing on (not the suspect, but the suspect's father), The individual reached under the mattress of a bed and came up with a Mossberg 500 w/18" barrel & full length mag. He opened fire on the detectives and the officer... wounding both detectives before being killed by the uniformed deputy. The first detective hit was hit at near point blank range, (less than 10') inside the mobile home, full contact in the center of chest. Fortunately, it was #12 shot. While he was severely wounded, (looked like hamburger) he survived, the second round was buckshot and caught the second detective in the heinie & legs as he exited... no third shot was fired as the deputy had also left, but later killed the shooter.

1st - a shot column doesn't expand to devastating effectiveness until it far out distances the shot cup. Usually greater than 10 yards. Light shot that doesn't penetrate walls also isn't effective against determined intruders. Heavy shot that will be effective against an intruder also includes risk to other occupants.

#2 - to my way of thinking shotshells are a greater risk of collateral damage than a single projectile from a handgun. The handgun only has the single projectile, not the many contained in say #4 or #6 shot. Even 00buck has between 9 & 12 depending on the shell length and gauge. Controlling those is a matter of luck, not skill. Even if you take out the assailant with several, you may have others that are now simply loose bullets plowing thru your walls.

Here's my theory: If your assailant is within grappling distance, use his gun. His finger prints on the trigger and grip... a clear case of suicide. If they ask why your finger print is on his trigger finger nail... "I was attempting to stop him... we grappled for the gun... it went off. Accidental, like." (I ain't sayin' do that... but seriously, if you are willing to exert deadly force, you have to be willing for the consequences... otherwise, lay down and take what ever the assailant chooses for you.) Confrontations that occur @ 3' to 7 yards, indoors... I want a handgun... easily manuerable, can be held tight to the body and controlled. My SASS shooting has been excellent practice for this type semi-instinctive shooting. I have no doubts of putting a large, heavy, slow moving slug on target. Outdoor confrontations that take place @ 21' to 50 yards, I want a shotgun. Preferably a pump with #4 or #6... they may not prove fatal, but they will be devastating. A few 00 buck would be good also, but in all actuality, the shotgun is so intimidating that many perps will give up rather than go up against a shotgun wielding defender. Lastly, where distances are going to exceed 50 yards, I want a weapon that has that minimum range, is easily controlled, had deadly accuracy at ranges necessary to keep my home and loved ones safe. Read... RIFLE.

Don't take this the wrong way... but like the lawyer that decides to defend himself... unless you're a crack wingshot (AND, you practice it use defensively regularly) or that's the only legal option for you, choosing a shotgun as a home defense gun is not a wise move.

YMMV.

By the way, that intimidation factor of the pump is a very real and USEFUL tool. My wife was entering our bedroom late one evening and heard someone trying get the sliding window open... she grabbed my 870 pump outta the closet and standing next to the window, pump the action ONCE! The perp ran off... she said she only heard the pounding of feet on the dirt of our yet-to-be landscaped back yard! (New home, no fences yet, but the window locks were in place!) Gun was empty, she didn't want to take the time to load it.

[Rusty]

You're right Griff. The sound of a shotgun being cycled will turn the contents of ones bowels to liquid and knees to rubber. I've been on both sides of it myself.

The reason for the above test was because a lot of people like to preach how safe a shotgun is to other occupants of the house. I cry foul after seeing what happened.

[3leggedturtle]

I shot one out of a tree with a high brass #4 Squill load, it was not phased much. It was a single shot. It hit the ground running right at me and my....things..... I was very busy for awhile keeping it off me and reloading.

To quote Charlie Daniels,bet you were a steppin' and fetchin like yer head's on fire and yer *** is a'ketchin, gotta clean the keyboard off after reading that. sure me laugh, glad its funny, bet it wasn't at the time, How long did it take the adrelanine to wear off?

[KirkD]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I use #2 shot for everything (Woodchucks and geese and varmints).