Homemade .44 Bullets - UPDATED 3/15/10

[deerwhacker444]

So I saw this on another forum and thought I'd give it a try. Turns out a fired 40 S&W case is in the neighborhood of .429-.430. The original poster was taking fired cases, filling them with lead and making .44 projectiles out of them. I understand this is not a new practice, but it is new to me. Apparently they've been turning .22 rimfire casings into .22 cal varmint bullets for some time. I think there are a few other cartridge combos as well but I'm dealing strictly with the .44.

Here is what my progress looks like. I start with a fired case and fill it with lead. Using a lathe, I remove the lead back to the rim of the case. Then I drill a 1/4 hole approx .2" deep in the bullet to allow for some "squish" when I form the nose. The finished product is last.



I made me a steel die to use to form the nose. An 82 degree countersink provided the needed angle, it seems to be pretty consistent and works well. It really crimps the lead in place and gives me a nice hollow point.



Here's the finished product. There seems to be some variables like case manufacture that I haven't taken into account, but all the bullets weigh from 262 gr. to 272 gr. I'm happy with my first try.



Now, I ask you. What powder charge do I use to load these up and try em. I realize this is uncharted territory, but at one time everything was uncharted territory.

I've got some BlueDot and I've read that it can be downloaded a bit without any of the problems associated with powders like H-110. I was thinking along the lines of 11.5 gr. of BlueDot. Although I don't have any Unique, I've heard it's a very friendly powder.

Anybody have any ideas. I don't want to hot rod, just shoot em to see how well they hold together.

[76/444]

Hmmm,...sorry, I haven't a clue on a powder charge.

But, a question does arise? How hard will those cases be on a barrel's rifling?

Got any idea?

[shawn_c992001]

I have seen guys do that in the 10mm but never in a 44 Mag. They do look like that would penetrate well.

[cnjarvis]

Since the brass is much softer than the barrel steel, I can't see it doing it any harm.

Those might make a pretty cool sabot load in a 45 or 50 cal muzzle loader. No idea what they'll do out of a 44 CF.

[Nath]

Well done! Very interesting. I bet they penertrate very well!

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

I would suggest using published data for 300 grain bullets and check the chrony for velocity. That should keep you out of trouble.

[Borregos]

Interesting project, looking forward to the range report

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I made me a steel die to use to form the nose.

It was that sentence right there that reminded me what an amateur I am.

[Joel]

I would think about shaving them down to a weight that had existing loading data, or just borrow my brothers gun to test them out in

[Rusty]

I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK JOEL, BUT I'M GLAD YOU AIN'T MY BRUDDER.

[Tristan]

So I saw this on another forum and thought I'd give it a try. Turns out a fired 40 S&W case is in the neighborhood of .429-.430. The original poster was taking fired cases, filling them with lead and making .44 projectiles out of them. I understand this is not a new practice, but it is new to me.

(CLIP)

Here's the finished product. There seems to be some variables like case manufacture that I haven't taken into account, but all the bullets weigh from 262 gr. to 272 gr. I'm happy with my first try.



Now, I ask you. What powder charge do I use to load these up and try em. I realize this is uncharted territory, but at one time everything was uncharted territory.

I've got some BlueDot and I've read that it can be downloaded a bit without any of the problems associated with powders like H-110. I was thinking along the lines of 11.5 gr. of BlueDot. Although I don't have any Unique, I've heard it's a very friendly powder.

Anybody have any ideas. I don't want to hot rod, just shoot em to see how well they hold together.

Very interesting!

I don't have a recommendation for a start load, but wanted to share this observation. There are a multitude of variables in the loading of cartridges - among these are projectile weight and bearing length, powder speed, primer strength, remaining powder capacity after seating projo, etc.; regarding your question, I would be looking for data that not only matches the weight range of your projectiles, but takes into consideration the very long bearing surface of the resultant projo. Bearing length can have a very significant impact on the pressure generated by a particular load.

Good luck with your tests!

- Tristan

[Pisgah]

I believe Tristan has a significant point. My first thought as I looked at your bullets was, "That's one heckuva long-looking bearing surface," and bearing surface can have a major effect on pressures.

Logic would say that load data for 300 gr. loads might get you in the ballpark; but, man, I'd sure look at the very bottom-rung loads to begin with. Maybe lower -- but then, there's a risk there, too: go too low, and stuck bullet is a certainty, and the difference between "Go" and "No-go" is likely to be razor thin -- pretty thin between "Go" and Ka-BOOM!", too! .

I'm not discouraging you at all, mind. It's a pretty intriguing project, for sure. Just thinking about what cautions I would come up with if I were trying to do the same thing. I'm willing to let you pioneer it, though!

[deerwhacker444]

Here's where I got the idea. Looks like 11.0 - 11.5 gr. of Bluedot might be the ticket.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/ ... 315.0.html

[shooter]

Not sure, but I think the people that are using fired .22lr cases are swaging them to remove the rim, filling the cases with lead, and swaging them again to achieve the shape of the jacket. I'm sure that's not the exact process, but I think it's along those lines. Don't know if this is possible with a .40 s&w case, but maybe you could swage the case, then trim it to a shorter length before you poured your lead into it. You would have more of a traditional size and shape projectile that way. Just a thought. The difference in the .40 and the .22 is the .22 doesn't have a primer to contend with, and has a solid base. Very interesting project once you start considering everything. It's got potential for sure! I know that for me, a swaging press and swaging dies are very cost prohibitive.

Very cool project! keep us updated on the progress.

[adirondakjack]

Brass IS harder than gilding metal jackets. For your next batch, heat the brass to red with a torch and let it air cool before you do anything else. It will be nicely softened. A starting load for a similar weight jacketed bullet ought to be OK. Unique, Blue dot, heck, even power pistol, just go easy.

[stretch]

What adirondackjack said.

However, copper-based alloys anneal with quenching, carbon steel
with slow (air) cooling.

Heat cherry-red, quench, and test. It'lll be obvious if it's dead-soft.

You might want to swage to the exact diameter after all is said and done.

You're off to a GREAT start, though. Please keep us posted with a range
report!!!

-Stretch

[horsesoldier03]

Definately an intresting venture to say the least! Keep us posted on your progress. Wondering with all the CCI aluminum cases out there how that might work or the possibility of taking a band saw and cutting the bullet at the rim once its completed to reduce the weight. I have no doubt in my mind that the day is coming when we are going to have to learn to make a homemade round and shoot what previously was considered as unconventional.

Will the round be safe to shoot out of a rifle, pistol or both?

[O.S.O.K.]

Definately an intresting venture to say the least! Keep us posted on your progress. Wondering with all the CCI aluminum cases out there how that might work or the possibility of taking a band saw and cutting the bullet at the rim once its completed to reduce the weight. I have no doubt in my mind that the day is coming when we are going to have to learn to make a homemade round and shoot what previously was considered as unconventional.

Will the round be safe to shoot out of a rifle, pistol or both?

This is what crossed my mind too. Necessity of this...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

You might want to swage to the exact diameter after all is said and done.

That's an interesting point. I just recently noticed that Lee has advanced the concept of their push-through lead bullet sizer to the sizing of cases all the way to the head now. You simply push the case all of the way through the sizing die and they deposit into a collector up top. This might be applicable to your fired case based bullets to take any bulge that may be near the case head back out.

[deerwhacker444]

Well, after searching around the web and reading a bunch, I settled on 11.0 gr. of Bluedot. Here's what they look like loaded up.



The feed and eject in my Marlin 1894. I wasn't sure they'd feed, but they load no problems.

They look kinda "Hammer of Thor'ish", we'll see how well they shoot,...that is if I don't blow up my rifle in the process.....

[adirondakjack]

Yer NOT gonna blow up the Marlin. If ya have to yank on the lever to extract the empties, that would be a HUGE red flag, but the load you list won't blow a marlin, trust me. Be absodamlutely sure the first couple exit though. shoot a pizza box or some such at 10 feet, before ya go and stick one and follow with another. THAT would hurt yer rifle bad.

[Bullard4075]

The back (base) of your bullet probably controls how accurate it will be.
What does the rim measure?

[Ysabel Kid]

Can't wait to hear the range report on this! I've got a bunch of .40 cases... looks like I may have found a new use for them! THANKS!!!

[COSteve]

The back (base) of your bullet probably controls how accurate it will be.
What does the rim measure?

The rims on my fired 40s&w measure .419", the same as a 10mm case. I shoot a ton of 40s&w and the cases aren't uniformly the size you want. Even in my Glocks, the cases come out routinely .422"-.424" at the mouth, .423"-.425" in the middle, and .430"-.432" above the rim where the cases aren't supported as well. I'm afraid that your bullets will have poor accuracy as the rifling is only going to engage the lower 1/3 of the bullet and even then, not evenly.

BTW, my Lee carbide resizing die returns the case to it's spec .421" diameter so new cases also are too small.

[Joel]

The back (base) of your bullet probably controls how accurate it will be.
What does the rim measure?

The rims on my fired 40s&w measure .419", the same as a 10mm case. I shoot a ton of 40s&w and the cases aren't uniformly the size you want. Even in my Glocks, the cases come out routinely .422"-.424" at the mouth, .423"-.425" in the middle, and .430"-.432" above the rim where the cases aren't supported as well. I'm afraid that your bullets will have poor accuracy as the rifling is only going to engage the lower 1/3 of the bullet and even then, not evenly.

BTW, my Lee carbide resizing die returns the case to it's spec .421" diameter so new cases also are too small.

Could he resize the brass berfore filling with the lead?

I'd be curious as to what one of the looks like if he were to cut the brass away to see how even the lead was filling.

[cnjarvis]

Just be sure to warn us when you go to the range!

[Nath]

I think they will make meat, maybe just to 50 yards but so what

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think he'll get better accuracy than may be expected. Lets wait and see... I'm betting 2", 50 yard groups.

[JimT]

We did that for a number of years. Speer began it's business by making .22 caliber bullets from fired .22 brass. They are not hard on the barrel. They do not cause "pressure problems" as long as you use the correct powders for the bullet weight.

We used cut-down .30 carbine brass in the .357 ...I shot lots of .45 ACP in the .475 .. some up around 2000 fps from 5 1/2" barrel.





For the guy who loves to tinker and who does not mind thinking "out of the box" .. you can have lots of fun for there a large number of combinations you can try.

[Lobo]

Hi All,

I'm with Jim on this, I read some years ago about a fellow who used 45 ACP brass in his .475 cal rifle to good effect.

[COSteve]

Oh, I think they will work alright but I'm not too optimistic about how accurate they'll be. I'd love to see the results.

[JimT]

Here's a photo of the base of an early Speer .22 bullet made from a fired .22 cartridge. Despite all the theory of how the "imperfect" base effects accuracy, Speer not only sold a lot of these, the business grew from a home shop to what it is today .. and it did not do it by selling 'inaccurate' bullets.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Oh, I think they will work alright but I'm not too optimistic about how accurate they'll be. I'd love to see the results.

Since he's got a lathe, he could probably turn the rim off. Possibly leaving him with the biggest boat-tail of all time. Then perhaps push through a .429 die? One of the through dies like Lee does?

[JimT]

My 475/45ACP loads were minute-of-chicken accurate on the Handgun Silhouette Range ... the cases were empty .. big hollow forward.

[TedH]

I've thought about trying that with 45 acp brass to shoot in my 470 but I'm too stingy with my brass to use it for bullets!

[El Chivo]

I was looking into swaging, the press is not all that expensive considering the price of jacketed bullets these days.

Hey, what about laying pennies on the railroad tracks one day and picking them up the next? Then form that into a copper jacket somehow. Swage it with 5 cents worth of lead wire and get a 30 cent jacketed bullet for 6 cents.

[gundownunder]

Looking at the Alliant reloading data for a .44 revolver they list 12.7gr of Blue Dot for a 265gr JHP. I would think 11gr would be a good starting load for normal jacketed bullets, but if I'm not mistaken brass is harder than copper so your pressures may be higher than normal jacketed bullets.
That said, it will be interesting to see your results.
I predict a good mushroom at the front but a well held together rear for deep penetration.

[Nath]

Looking at the Alliant reloading data for a .44 revolver they list 12.7gr of Blue Dot for a 265gr JHP. I would think 11gr would be a good starting load for normal jacketed bullets, but if I'm not mistaken brass is harder than copper so your pressures may be higher than normal jacketed bullets.
That said, it will be interesting to see your results.
I predict a good mushroom at the front but a well held together rear for deep penetration.

Brass is very slippy though

Nath.

[AJMD429]

I was just thinking (not always a good thing...) - it could liven things up some if you de-primed those .40 S&W cases, then primed them with a live primer...

Probably not a good idea, though, but they did used to sell a hollowpoint round with a live primer loaded into the hollowpoint of the bullets, I think called the "devastator". I doubt the primer would add much to a 1000 ft-lb impact, though, realistically, but I would fear it might do something BAD between ignition and muzzle. At least the "devastator" rounds didn't have the primer in the powder-charge area.