348 Winchester - New Info and A Question

[RANisbet]

Well, I finished the "Scout" type scope base I designed. It is all steel, has an integral dovetail that fits the barrel dovetail and a side section that lays flat against the receiver and is held by two side screws and one set screw in the center of the dovetail. When I installed it and the Nikon EER scope onto the old pre-war model 71 Winchester .348 cal rifle, I was very pleased that it looked "natural", well as much as a lever gun can, anyway. The scope sits right over the barrel and completely forward of the bolt so that the upward thrown empties clear the rifle unscathed. (Bottom of the scope base is only 1/4 inch above the barrel.
Once installed on the rifle, I used a laser bore sighter to see where the newly mounted scope was pointing. To my surprise, it was looking 3 inches high and 2 inches left when viewing my test target 25 yards distant.
A few sighter shots proved that it really was that close, and a few tweaks brought it to the 25 yard POI that I desired.
I was shooting 200 grain Hornadys at 1970 fps with SR4751 powder. Those sighters tell me that the load/bullet combination will be OK for practice and plinking, but not for hunting.
Anyone have any surplus Barnes X monolithics they would be willing to sell. I believe I could ration one or two boxes and make them last more than 10 years.
By the way, I have pictures but couldn't get them to load.
I also have the scope base design I will email (free) to anyone that wants it. It can be used with Conetrol or Weaver stud type rings.
Thanks,
Bob Nisbet
Sr. Technology Protection Specialist
Supporting Army Aviation
Redstone Arsenal, AL 35898
Office: 256-876-1939
Cell: 256-797-4152

Displaced Texan

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Did Barnes ever make a monolithic in .348? I know they have their "originals" in .348 ... at least I think they still do.

Even though I've seen plenty of 71's with holes drilled in the side of the receiver, I've never actually seen a scope mounted on a '71. I think I've seen 86er's model 1886 with a scout setup ... but not a '71.

[Leverluver]

They made them for a few years but dropped them due to low demand, at least low enough that it didn't justify another minimum production run.

[Idiot]

Did Barnes ever make a monolithic in .348? I know they have their "originals" in .348 ... at least I think they still do.

Yep, X-Bullets in 200 and 220 grain. They are accurate, easy to load, and hit hard. They were designed by Barnes and David Scovill so they could be loaded using data for standard cup and core bullets (ogive begins earlier than on other Barnes X-Bullets to reduce the bearing surface). They were not cheap bullets to begin with and now, if you can find them, will be pretty expensive. With the velocities generated by the .348 Winchester, regular old cup and core bullets or the modified "Interlock" Hornady sells is, I expect, just as effective. The Barnes original is a simple cup and core bullet using a copper (instead of alloy) jacket filled with lead and it's way over priced for its utility. Alaska Bullet Works makes a bonded bullet that should be good if one stays awake at night worrying about a core/case separation on bullet leaving the muzzle at pedestrian speeds. And, Hawk also makes some good bullets tailored to the use that are probably worth their cost. I think Scovill said they were the best bullets he's used in the .348 Winchester - ever. Anyway, I've gone too long.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I guess those bullets have to be stalked up on GunBroker these days.

[RKrodle]

Woodliegh also makes a 250gr Bonded bullet for the 348 Winchester.

[71fan]

A little story about the Barnes 200 gr 348s...
When they stopped making them they closed them out and offered them on their website directly for about $25 for 50. Someone on the old site (2005/2006-ish time frame) posted about the closeout and within a few hours they were gone, probably sold mostly to leverguns.com members. I remember the limit was six boxes per order, I think, because that's how many I bought.

Living in California (lead-free zone) those bullets are like gold for a 71 shooter. I would be very surprised if you found anyone willing to part with them. I am always looking for more and have NEVER since then seen any for sale.

However, my suggestion to you is to post a WTB in the classifieds and see if you can get any of the other guys that bought them to come forward. Perhaps folks not living in a lead-free state would be less possessive of such treasure

[JFE]

A little story about the Barnes 200 gr 348s...
Living in California (lead-free zone) those bullets are like gold for a 71 shooter. I would be very surprised if you found anyone willing to part with them. I am always looking for more and have NEVER since then seen any for sale.

I'm surprised that Barnes havent re-introduced these for California. If there was enough interest maybe try to get a group buy together and get Barnes to make a special run.

Also possibly of interest is the Hydrostatic Solids Woodleigh is producing. They're CNC machined no lead bullets. They dont make one in 348 but if there was enough interest they'd probably make them. They're primarily a DG pill but reports suggest very decent performance on soft skinned game too and that straight line penetration is outstanding.

[RANisbet]

I spoke to Barnes and they said a minimum run of 348 X bullets would need to be around 100,000 pieces. That correlates to lots of commitments. I would expect the community of model 71 shooters to commit to somewhere between 20 and 40 thousand. That leaves lots on the table.

I also spoke to Dave at Leahigh bullets. He is looking into designing 348 bullets that he would make from brass, on his CNC machine. The interesting thing about his bullets is that they are "frangible" meaning that the meplat which is drilled to hoppow it, breaks off throwing the pieces outward to create more would channels, while the body holds together like a solid and gives deep penetration.

Bob Nisbet

[Idiot]

A little story about the Barnes 200 gr 348s...
When they stopped making them they closed them out and offered them on their website directly for about $25 for 50. Someone on the old site (2005/2006-ish time frame) posted about the closeout and within a few hours they were gone, probably sold mostly to leverguns.com members.

Yep, I remember that - I posted they were for sale at Barnes at a close out price. They had 96 boxes when I posted and they were gone in a heap big hurry.

I wish I would have bought a few more boxes before I opened my big mouth. Of course I had no idea they would be gone so fast. Well, I've got enough to fill a tag of every big game animal in my state for the rest of my life if I live to 100. "That'll do pig."

[RANisbet]

My hope is that someone that has sold their 348 will come across the X bullets in the back of a closet or someplace in the garage and allow me to buy them.
Right now I have a couple of boxes of factory Winchester 200s, lots of Hornady 200 flat points, and a box of Barnes Original 250s. Those will keep me busy but after using the X bullets in both 30 cal and 375 cal, I just have to have them!! Maybe I an X bullet adict.
Bob Nisbet

[Lawyer Daggit]

Is Woodleigh in Australia making bullets for the .348?

I use his .350 bullets exclusively for serious hunting in my .35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag (Hornady interlock 180 gn for foolin around).

If he does not already make bullets in .348 he could be convinced as a lot of his calibres are lower volume big game bullets.

A lot of big game shooters swear by his bullets.

The guys at Woodleigh are very approachable, even sent me samples so i could check the length for use in short action .350 before buying some.

[Lawyer Daggit]

Just checked for you. Woodleigh Australia do list a 250 gn flat nosed bullet for the .348.

I think if you try it, you will be most satisfied.

I know their 225gn works well on Sambar.

[Thunder50]

What are the Barnes XFN's worth? Found one box, know I have a few more, but only the one so far. Thanks,

[NorthFork]

Hello Gentlemen,

We still make a 348 230gr bullet that is an excellent hunting bullet for the 348 win mag. No need to order 100,000 either
http://www.northforkbullets.com

If you want to give us a try, we are running a special for 10% off your order if you apply the following coupon code during checkout up through May 7th: "ARRulz"

If you are in California, we do make custom all copper bullets in some hard to find calibers as well. You can contact us at info@northforkbullets.com

Good Luck,
North Fork

[RANisbet]

Thunder50,
I sent you a PM.
I am definitely interested in the X bullets you found.
I can be reached by email at:
Robert.Nisbet1@US.Army.MiL
or RANisbet@Yahoo.Com
or by phone at:
Office: 256-876-1939
Cell: 256-797-4152
Thanks,
Bob Nisbet
Army Research & Technology Protection Center
Supporting Army Aviation
Redstone Arsenal, AL 35898

[Idiot]

We still make a 348 230gr bullet that is an excellent hunting bullet for the 348 win mag. No need to order 100,000 either http://www.northforkbullets.com

Holy Mackerel!!! $83.78 per box of 50 bullets. I paid $30.00 for a box of 50 Barnes X-Bullets and thought I was being foolish, nevertheless I swallowed hard and bought them. But there are still lingering doubts about their worth. But $83.78 for a box of 50?

Look, plain old copper cup and lead core bullets perform just fine all the way up to 2,800 fps. The 200 grain Hornady Inter-Lock bullet can only be loaded to 2,500 fps - 300 fps below the level one has to worry about core separation. And the Hornady bullet is not a simple cup and core bullet. It's Inter-Lock design helps hold the core in place at impact and throughout penetration. The Hornady 200 grain flat nose bullet sells for $30.49 for a box of 100.

I think this premium bullet stuff has become little more than BS, and only comes into play when velocities get very high or the animal gets really tough. Some of it is down right embarrassing.

It's your money.

[NorthFork]

Hi Bob,

Like the gentlemen said above, if you have tough game you are hunting or are driving a bullet fast, you should check us out. We also have bullets in stock for some of the calibers the big guys don't carry any longer. The volumes are not high, but a lot of folks appreciate being able to shoot their pride and joy with a great bullet. Like you said, a couple of boxes will last you through years of hunting.

Regards,
North Fork

[RANisbet]

My hunting will be primarily Texas deer, which rarely exceed 200 Lbs.
I know that the 200 grain Hornadys would be sufficient for those, but after recovering the bullets I used to take an 8 year old elk herd bull in Colorado, with a Barnes X in my 375 H&H, I am swayed heavily toward expanding monolithic bullets.
As an experienced hunter, I typically only fire 1 to 4 rounds per year at game, but I do practice on paper targets. I believe that for me, firing Hornady 348s for practice is sufficient. As long as my hunting bullet shoots to the same point of aim as my practice bullet, I would only need to use the expensive monolithic hunting bullets to sight in and then to hunt.
Bottom line, my projection is that 50 monolithic hunting bullets would probably be divided this way. Ten to 15 for sight in, then at 4 per year the balance should last approximately 9 years.
If there had never been 348 Barnes X bullets available, I would certainly be in the market for some of the Northfork bullets.
If Northfork didn't make them either, I might even use my engineering knowledge and access to CNC lathes to manufacture my own.
But;
Since there are Barnes X bullets out there, and probably at a cost below some other brands, I will keep trying to find a couple of boxs of them.
Bob Nisbet
A temporarily Displaced Texan

[Idiot]

RANisbet, in reality, a bonded bullet IS monolithic. A bonded bullet will not come apart any quicker, and in most cases, any more than a true monolithic bullet. They are two paths to a similar point.

However, with that being said, I think one of the reasons Barnes X-Bullets work so well is that their expansion is controlled (by the depth of hollow cavity/petal length and construction that allows the petals to lay back against the bullet shaft if velocities stay high during penetration). As a result you get expansion with increased tissue damage AND penetration. Most of the bonded bullets (and I don't know about Northfork's) expand way too much and impede penetration. On the flip side, some bonded bullets require high impact velocities to expand at all. Good bonded bullets expand through a wide range of impact velocities and are controlled so the bullet doesn't become a pancake and refuse to penetrate.

Northfork, you are the gentleman. And your response alone to my post has given me reason to at least consider trying a box of your bullets. If for nothing else than to acknowledge your courtesy and professionalism.

[BigSky56]

200 gr hornadys will handle just about all your needs Ive used them on elk and they shoot thru and thru, Ive goten 30" of penetration loading 53 gr of IMR 4895 for 2450fps at the muzzle if you need more weight try a Hawk they have from 165 to 270 gr and are around $40 for 50. Or you could load a HCGC lead from Beartooth. danny

http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

[Idiot]

200 gr hornadys will handle just about all your needs Ive used them on elk and they shoot thru and thru, Ive goten 30" of penetration loading 53 gr of IMR 4895 for 2450fps at the muzzle if you need more weight try a Hawk they have from 165 to 270 gr and are around $40 for 50. Or you could load a HCGC lead from Beartooth. danny

http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

I hope to get a whole bagful of the light jacketed bullets from Hawk. They are simple cup and core, but the cup is soft copper and the core tends to stick to it. I need to buy a box to see how well they feed in my M71. Some of their bullets for bottleneck cartridges are very sticky when being feed from sharper than normal angles in some bolt actions. This of course is do to their use of very soft copper for jacket material. But I heard nothing but good things about them.

[NorthFork]

Just to add to what was said already, one of the keys to deep penetration is controlled expansion. North Fork controls expansion to the front portion of the bullet as does Barnes. If you are interested, we have a few good articles out on our website that talk more about our design philosophy. You can go to the following page and see a few of the articles.(Checkout "Philosophy") http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/links/

Regards,
North Fork

BTW Thanks for the "Gentlemen" compliment.