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They sent me a box of the 570 grain slugs to test. All their data is for a powder called Vetcan-SP2, which apparently isn't widely available in the USA. Blue Dot has a similar burn rate, so I'm trying to work up a load with that.
can't wait to fire them into something
Last edited by Jason_W on Sun May 16, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
J Miller wrote:OK, now that has me impressed. And that ain't easy.
Solid brass slugs, I do so want to see your report.
Joe
Look for it by the end of the month. I'm scrounging $$ for ballistics gel now. I want at least a foot of it to get a record of channeling and cavitation. The backer will be chunks of maple.
I too am interested. The most impressive slugs I've found so far are from Brenneke (Black Magic Magnum), but I'm always ready for something better. The slugs you described sound good. Please let us know soon how well they perform. And thanks for the heads up.
Idiot wrote:I too am interested. The most impressive slugs I've found so far are from Brenneke (Black Magic Magnum), but I'm always ready for something better. The slugs you described sound good. Please let us know soon how well they perform. And thanks for the heads up.
BTW, how much did they cost?
The company was nice enough to send me a box in exchange for free advertising on my website. Considering the troubles Greece is having, that was really nice of them to do.
Yep We sure need them in Ohio.the last buck I shot with a standard 23/4" slug fell at My feet.I hit him at about 40 yds and the tissue was all over the snow for 20'.he ran right for Me never knowing He was dead. I was a goner for sure. . Maybe I'll see a Buffalo.
.45colt wrote:Yep We sure need them in Ohio.the last buck I shot with a standard 23/4" slug fell at My feet.I hit him at about 40 yds and the tissue was all over the snow for 20'.he ran right for Me never knowing He was dead. I was a goner for sure. . Maybe I'll see a Buffalo.
or maybe two or three deer will line up just right and you can get them all in one shot
madman4570 wrote:Jason,
They say food grade gelatine powder (1 lb powder per gallon of water) gives a good result.
Might be worth trying this on a bullet or two to start with!
I am very impressed with what you are doing! Great Stuff!
Thanks.
On some of the nitpickier forums I got criticism for not calibrating my gel. My gun budget is very limited and I don't want to spend any of it on a pellet gun.
In the future, I'm going to compensate by mixing my gel to 12% rather than 10%.
1st Recipe
Take 1 part pectin powder (same store aisle as gelatin)
then take 1 part gelatin powder
take 3 parts boiling water (double boiler recommended)
Stir until dissolved.
Add color if desired
A few drops of oil of wintergreen (from baking supply store) can be used as a preservative.
2nd Recipe
Start with 20 grams gelatin powder
add 12 cc distilled water
then mix with 100 cc glycerin (sometimes available at drugstores, first-aid isle)
Let the mixture soak for about 45 minutes, then heat to 140 degrees in a double boiler, and pour into Ziploc bags and lay flat to cool. (Add color if needed)
add oil of wintergreen works as a preservative here too.
madman4570 wrote:Jason,
They say food grade gelatine powder (1 lb powder per gallon of water) gives a good result.
Might be worth trying this on a bullet or two to start with!
I am very impressed with what you are doing! Great Stuff!
Thanks.
On some of the nitpickier forums I got criticism for not calibrating my gel. My gun budget is very limited and I don't want to spend any of it on a pellet gun.
In the future, I'm going to compensate by mixing my gel to 12% rather than 10%.
Your doing some ground breaking stuff Jason!
You should be proud!
Since we're talking slug testing media let me give you my recipe. Find a junk yard with older pickup trucks. Ask the owner if he has a couple steel truck doors that are beat beyond repair. Snag up the truck doors at a very low to no cost. Go out to your favorite rock pile for final preparation. Stand one truck door (or two if you like) up in the dirt like it would sit if attached to a truck - interior facing the shooter. Place a 3/4 piece of plywood behind the door to "catch" the slugs as they exit the door. Now the recipe is complete. Step back to your desired range and blast away. With slugs and heavy handguns I like to shoot through the interior steel frame, the window cranking mechanism, and out the through the exterior door steel body. If a window is still in the door, I crank it all the way down to add one more layer to penetrate. A good slug will penetrate all of the above and the 3/4 inch plywood backing. If it doesn't, it gets noted in the "junk" pile of my notebook and will not be considered again. I also use this same "test media" for various buckshot testing.
I might add that there are few things in life as fun as spending an entire day blowing slugs and buckshot through wrecked truck/car doors, especially if rock busting is also added to the itinerary. Yee-haw!
You're right Idiot those vehicle doors can be a lot tougher than people think with so many layers in there.
Consider this. At one time Hi Standard made a 10 gauge semi auto called a "Roadblocker" that was years ahead of it's time. It was a bullpup design with a built in flashlight.
At least I think that's the way I remember them??? I'm home sick right now and the gray mater isn't working on all cylinders.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Rusty wrote: Consider this. At one time Hi Standard made a 10 gauge semi auto called a "Roadblocker" that was years ahead of it's time. It was a bullpup design with a built in flashlight.
Here's a topic after my own heart. I hope you can video your work because that's so much fun to watch. Those bullets appear to have just the right shape.
I've been recently informed than no one ever needs more than a 325g bullet, so hopefully you can benchmark a comparison for the curious. Heh.
The 12 GA 3" Brennekee slug I use (Black Magic Magnum) sends a full diameter 600 grain hard cast slug out the barrel at 1,500 fps. Now we can argue all day about 44/45 caliber handgun bullet weights, but there ain't no 44 Magnum or 45 Colt +P that will even come close to this shotgun load. Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn't it.
I have yet to find a sabot slug that I like. However, the slug described in this post seems to be less shrunk than most sabots, is made of better materials, and has a good flat point. I really want to see how it works.
Actually the plain-jane green box 20 ga slugs put a big hurt on a can of pop from the 20" single shot. What's that, an Oz? 437 grains. Close to original 45/70 external ballistics. I would hate to intercept one.
Idiot wrote:
I have yet to find a sabot slug that I like. However, the slug described in this post seems to be less shrunk than most sabots, is made of better materials, and has a good flat point. I really want to see how it works.
My finding are that Impact discarding sabots like those offered by Lightfield give the best accuracy. For handloaders, the Blue Force-IDS sabots also offer exceptional accuracy. The sabots are designed to expand and engage the rifling.
Idiot wrote:
I have yet to find a sabot slug that I like. However, the slug described in this post seems to be less shrunk than most sabots, is made of better materials, and has a good flat point. I really want to see how it works.
My finding are that Impact discarding sabots like those offered by Lightfield give the best accuracy. For handloaders, the Blue Force-IDS sabots also offer exceptional accuracy. The sabots are designed to expand and engage the rifling.
What I don't like about them is they often contain a 45 caliber bullet when I want the full width of a 12 gage bore. I can put three Brenneke slugs in three inches at 50 yards with nothing more than a bead up front on top of a smoothbore. That is plenty accurate for my applications. I want big holes being made by big weight with enough velocity to shove all the way through to hammer what's hiding on the other side.
However, I will look into the ones you identified above. I really should look more into sabot slugs if for nothing more than to at least know what they are capable of doing. Until this moment I didn't know there was such a thing as "Impact" discarding sabots. See, dismissing something wholesale is not wise. Thanks.
Idiot wrote:The 12 GA 3" Brennekee slug I use (Black Magic Magnum) sends a full diameter 600 grain hard cast slug out the barrel at 1,500 fps. Now we can argue all day about 44/45 caliber handgun bullet weights, but there ain't no 44 Magnum or 45 Colt +P that will even come close to this shotgun load. Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn't it.
I have yet to find a sabot slug that I like. However, the slug described in this post seems to be less shrunk than most sabots, is made of better materials, and has a good flat point. I really want to see how it works.
wonder how much farther old TRex will run if hit with the new slug as opposed to the Brenneke 600 grain. maybe the manufactorer owns a time travel machine
tman wrote:wonder how much farther old TRex will run if hit with the new slug as opposed to the Brenneke 600 grain. maybe the manufactorer owns a time travel machine
Rusty wrote:You're right Idiot those vehicle doors can be a lot tougher than people think with so many layers in there.
Consider this. At one time Hi Standard made a 10 gauge semi auto called a "Roadblocker" that was years ahead of it's time. It was a bullpup design with a built in flashlight.
At least I think that's the way I remember them??? I'm home sick right now and the gray mater isn't working on all cylinders.
Nope grey matter is off. High Standard did make a bullpup with light but it was 12 ga. They also did make a Roadblocker 10 ga. But it was a 3 shot semiauto with a 20 inch barrel and was full sized. Think 20 inch remington sp-10.
I've started my initial workup. I started with 30 grains of Blue Dot and only got 947 f/s 12 feet from the muzzle. They need to hit 1250 for the sabot to open up properly. 32 grains got me a little over 1000 f/s. even that penetrated over 4" into a large maple log and showed no signs of deformation.
Good stuff Jason!
Thank you for all your hard work on this quest for the ultimate shotgun stopper.
And to think from a smoothbore at that. Mind blowing!
Many of us are very impressed and will benefit greatly from your work!
Deepest respect!
Hey Jason,
Can just see it now!
The guys at the lodge over in Africa conversing over their .505 Gibbs and .500 Nitros say so what would you use for elephants/rhino sir?????
"12 ga mossberg 835 slugster" {where them suckers be ?????} Got some big brass 970 grainers for em.
madman4570 wrote:Good stuff Jason!
Thank you for all your hard work on this quest for the ultimate shotgun stopper.
And to think from a smoothbore at that. Mind blowing!
Many of us are very impressed and will benefit greatly from your work!
Deepest respect!
So far I'm getting surprising accuracy from the Benelli Nova with ghost ring sights, even with my ultra cheap home cast slugs.
Hubel has some great info, I didn't realize it was shocking. I just thought it was awesome, and that it adds depth to your topic. I thought. I guess not.
Hubel has some great info, I didn't realize it was shocking. I just thought it was awesome, and that it adds depth to your topic. I thought. I guess not.
Regards,
Grizz
Well, yeah. a 4 bore slug gun is shocking. 2000 grain slugs sound pretty intense. And I thought 970 grains was up there.
Grizz wrote:my misunderstanding. I'd say I forget my meds but I'm not taking any. Oh, so yeah, I'm off the meds.
It's a very interesting thread.
It looks like they got the USS slug up to a much greater velocity than I even imagined. I'm admittedly on the timid side when it comes to working up loads.
Guns are expensive and I like having two eyes and all my fingers.
It appears to me that Hubel is very careful about pressures, and so far he claims that his pressures are within the range of the shotguns he runs them in. His REALLY heavies wind up in bolt guns and he is making his own falling block action for the REALLY REALLY heavies, it dwarfs the Sharps action.
.***
. Maybe I'll see a Buffalo.
