38/357 Snake shot handloads?

[Gary]

Years ago, I read somewhere about making your own pistol snake shot handloads. The article mentioned charging a case, then seating a gas check over the powder. Next, fine shot would fill the case and another gas check topped it off. Has anyone done this? How well does it work on snakes? CCI 38/357 factory snake shot loads are over $1 each.

Gary

[Hobie]

For the number you will use and the cost of the gas checks (which come by the thousand) and the pain that it is to load them I think you are likely to find that it is more cost effective to just buy them.

Now, if you have all the materials, don't work and need a bunch then you might see it as an effective exercise.

So far as being effective, they are. Not at great range because the rifling blows the patterns, but they will work. So will a hoe.

[Doc Hudson]

In years gone by there'd be one or two articles on handgun shotshells in the various gun magazines every year. Some of them were well reasoned, well written and workable. Some were none of those things.

After lots of experimentation, i cme to the conclusion that the best way to handload shotshells was to use Speer Shot Capsules, aailable in .357/.38 and .44 calibers.

Maybe if i were a .45 Fanatic, I'd trouble with the gas check system. But for .38's and .44's the Speer Shot Capsules are the only way to go. Anything else is just too labor intensive to be worth the effort.

[Gary]

I have primers, brass, gas checks and a pound of Unique. I'm asking because I nearly stepped on a snake last Saturday. It coiled and I centered a CCI 38/357 factory shot shell on it at seven feet. Even with good shot placement & pattern, it proceeded to slither away.

[rimrock]

+1 to Hobie on the hoe because I too have had some snakes slither away from well placed shots.

Here's one method I've used--http://www.gunblast.com/Snake_Stopper.htm

Also, I use a piece of brass to cut cardboard (like from a package of Duracell batteries) as a wad for top of the powder, and then use piece of brass to cut out an over shot wad from an antifreeze jug (or similar). I use Elmer's glue on top of the over shot wad.

rimrock

[BigSky56]

for 357 & 45 I use speer shot capsules with #9 shot works great on fools hens and prowlers. danny

[AJMD429]

. . . I think you are likely to find that it is more cost effective to just buy them.
So far as being effective, they are. Not at great range because the rifling blows the patterns, but they will work. So will a hoe.

Never forget the basics...!

PLUS (dunno if this applies to you or not, but it is a pet peeve of mine ) - NEVER kill a 'snake' just because it is a 'snake' - very few species are dangerous to humans in the U.S., and if you aren't sure of the difference, learn to tell.

Actually, a BLANK round will usually do the job on a small critter like that, merely from the muzzle blast and wadding and powder, etc. I once accidentally killed my own cat with just the muzzle blast from a 'caseless' .22 LR round where the round had detonated and the bullet exited, but belatedly some powder remnants ignited and sent a blast down the muzzle sufficient to 'scalp' a cat a foot from the muzzle (...OK, I learned the concept of 'watch your muzzle' the hard way, as an 8-10 year-old kid... ). Anyway, unless you plan on shooting snakes from a fair distance, the muzzle blast from most powerful guns would shred whatever part you aimed it at if close up. After that, a boot heel should finish the job.

Around our place, the only venemous snakes are copperheads, and we just generally catch them and release them away from the house. To paraphrase Josie Wales, "Snakes gotta eat too..."

[Gary]

When hiking and plinking, I don't often carry long gardening tools with me.

Around here, we have Mojave Greens. When I am walking about, and a snake and I surprise each other, I want dependable ammo in my 357 Blackhawk. I want the last sound heard to be a single "bang" not "Rattle, bang, rattle, bang, bang, rattle, AHHHHHH!"

[Hobie]

In the many, many years I've lived in and around the forest I've NEVER had to kill a snake. I have killed snakes for others, in their yards. In the woods, even on the same tiny sandbar with a cottonmouth, there's been room for each of us to go our own way. As a five-year old I jumped one (near Spruce Knob in WV), I've had them slither right up my backside on the OTHER side of my poncho wrap (also in WV), I've stepped around them in Texas, swam the other way in Lake George, and simply flipped them out into air and down a cliff face. To my mind, if I should ever be in that situation, likely solid shot will be as effective and safe as a shot load. I do like to shoot carpenter bees with shot loads though.

[J35]

When hiking and plinking, I don't often carry long gardening tools with me.

Around here, we have Mojave Greens. When I am walking about, and a snake and I surprise each other, I want dependable ammo in my 357 Blackhawk. I want the last sound heard to be a single "bang" not "Rattle, bang, rattle, bang, bang, rattle, AHHHHHH!"

Practice practice practice, then practice some more, if it's bigger than a dime and inside of ten feet,should be easy money.

If you want really good shot loads from a handgun, use a 1911 and a set of the rcbs dies to make special cases from any of the .308 family of rifle cartridges or possibly the 45 Win. mag case.

Some load data and instructions come with the die set, but go a step farther and find a copy of handloader # 80 July August 1979, or a AR April 1976 for two excellent articals on getting the most out of the die set.

The shells hold approx 135 #9 shot with a launch speed in excess of 1200FPS and the best part, no donut patterns!

The dies are kinda spendy but produce better shotshells than you can buy and you can mix them in with a magazine of your favorite acp ammo and they will fuction just the same.

Have fun

[Malamute]

I've shot a fair number of snakes with the Speer shot loads. I buy them empty and load them with No 9 shot as most do. The 38's and 44's have killed snakes DRT for me when used within about 5-7 feet. I have some empty 45 Colt capsules, but havent loaded any up yet, I still have some home made shot loads. I used felt "Wonder wads" over the powder, then shot, then a gas check or card wad made from milk carton. The empty Speer capsules make better loads (more shot) in my experience tho.

I think the empty Speer shot capsules are about $10-$12/50 capsules.

[Warhawk]

I've tried the gas check method on .45 Colt loads, it's a lot of trouble for dubious results. The Speer shot capsules in .38 and .44 are much better. I've killed a fair number of snakes with both .38 and .44 shot loads using the speer shot capsules, they are easy to load and work fine. My brother had an especially bad snake problem on some land he owned and would go through about 100 shot loads a year dealing with them. I loaded all these using the speer capsules and he never had any complaints.

[gak]

I read the "slithering away" comments with interest. With head or "neck" (intended head) shots I've had very good luck with off-the-shelf CCIs, either .38/.357 or .44, from 6-8 feet away (8 preferably!)--DRT. The few times I've been innacurate with an off/body shot, it's put them in a world of hurt, no slithering away and no longer an immediate threat to me or mine, and a quick follow up "definite" head shot has taken care of things. For "humane" (ha) and other reasons, general policy is to never let one slither away--obviously if you have any reasonable say in the matter. We're talking pretty good size Arizona diamondbacks and the aforementioned Mohaves--neither to be trifled with, and the latter having the most lethal venom in North America (neurotoxin). I don't go hunting them, but both (and their cousins) very dangerous to have around the campsite or homestead. With all due respect, Hobie, you must not have a significant other, youngins or your favorite bird dog (etc) with you or nearby during those episodes you described!

[Doc Hudson]

With all due respect, Hobie, you must not have a significant other, youngins or your favorite bird dog (etc) with you or nearby during those episodes you described!

In addition, I will add that apparently the Cottonmouths Hobie encountered are not as aggressive as the ones we have in South Alabama. i'd strongly recommend NOT attempting to"flick away" a Po'd South Alabama Cottonmouth. That is a good way to find out how well your snake-bite kit works and find out how good the local Emergency Room is with snakebite.

I don't go hunting snakes, and i generally don't bother non -poisonous snakes, unless they surprise me. And I don't even bother poisonous snakes unless they are bothering me or intruding on my space. If I see them though, they are bothering me and they are intruding on my space.

I've dispatched lots of snakes with handgun shotshells in .38/.357, .44. and .45 ACP. IMO the very best snake dispatcher of all is a .410 shotgun. IMO the only real use for a .410 is as a snake killer.

BTW, one complaint about commercial .45 ACP shotshells. They are loaded with @12 shot. To be sure of dispatching a big snake with those small pellets, you have to be close, close enough, almost, for it to be a fair fight between shooter and snake. I prefer .38/.357 and .44's loaded with #8 or #9 shot.

[rock-steady]

I use the SnakeStopper load like on Mr. Jeff's gunblast.com. For 38/357 loads, I use a 000 Buckshot pellet seated over #8 birdshot with a paper over-powder wad, and a few grains of Red Dot. Very deadly out to 30'. In the 44SPL/44Mag,I use a .440 lead ball seated over #8's. These loads are as much fun to make as they are to shoot.

[Hobie]

I read the "slithering away" comments with interest. With head or "neck" (intended head) shots I've had very good luck with off-the-shelf CCIs, either .38/.357 or .44, from 6-8 feet away (8 preferably!)--DRT. The few times I've been innacurate with an off/body shot, it's put them in a world of hurt, no slithering away and no longer an immediate threat to me or mine, and a quick follow up "definite" head shot has taken care of things. For "humane" (ha) and other reasons, general policy is to never let one slither away--obviously if you have any reasonable say in the matter. We're talking pretty good size Arizona diamondbacks and the aforementioned Mohaves--neither to be trifled with, and the latter having the most lethal venom in North America (neurotoxin). I don't go hunting them, but both (and their cousins) very dangerous to have around the campsite or homestead. With all due respect, Hobie, you must not have a significant other, youngins or your favorite bird dog (etc) with you or nearby during those episodes you described!

In some cases, I did just as we did when killing the snakes in the yards. However, the current wife will run if she sees a SIGN (as in "Danger! Rattlesnakes") with nary a snake in sight. She's always found this to be an effective means of avoiding snake bite.

[Warhawk]

I use the SnakeStopper load like on Mr. Jeff's gunblast.com. For 38/357 loads, I use a 000 Buckshot pellet seated over #8 birdshot with a paper over-powder wad, and a few grains of Red Dot. Very deadly out to 30'. In the 44SPL/44Mag,I use a .440 lead ball seated over #8's. These loads are as much fun to make as they are to shoot.

Great idea, I'll have to try that next time I make some snake loads.

[Malamute]

I suppose I may not have to kill all the rattlesnakes I do, but I've had a number of unpleasant interactions with them. My policy now is to kill all I see anywhere I frequent. That way I am positive that that snake won't bite me or my dogs the next time I'm there.

No offense meant to anyone, but I make no apologies for my dealing with rattlesnakes. I don't bother other snakes.

[BigSky56]

Ive been bit and had a horse bit by a coontail rattler in AZ, rattlers are a pain for stock producers as they hang around and under stock tanks. danny

[Rimfire McNutjob]

With all due respect, Hobie, you must not have a significant other, youngins or your favorite bird dog (etc) with you or nearby during those episodes you described!

In addition, I will add that apparently the Cottonmouths Hobie encountered are not as aggressive as the ones we have in South Alabama. i'd strongly recommend NOT attempting to"flick away" a Po'd South Alabama Cottonmouth. That is a good way to find out how well your snake-bite kit works and find out how good the local Emergency Room is with snakebite.

Yeah, the Florida Water Moccassins are the same. They are apparently born PO'd.

[Sarge]

... I once accidentally killed my own cat with just the muzzle blast from a 'caseless' .22 LR round where the round had detonated and the bullet exited, but belatedly some powder remnants ignited and sent a blast down the muzzle sufficient to 'scalp' a cat a foot from the muzzle (...OK, I learned the concept of 'watch your muzzle' the hard way, as an 8-10 year-old kid... ). Anyway, unless you plan on shooting snakes from a fair distance, the muzzle blast from most powerful guns would shred whatever part you aimed it at if close up. After that, a boot heel should finish the job.

Around our place, the only venemous snakes are copperheads, and we just generally catch them and release them away from the house. To paraphrase Josie Wales, "Snakes gotta eat too..."

I laughed until I nearly cried over this... LOL

Yes, the CCI loads are ridiculously expensive. We'll probably order a couple of 10-packs all the same, for the Glock 23's we drag around all summer.

[bdhold]

PLUS (dunno if this applies to you or not, but it is a pet peeve of mine ) - NEVER kill a 'snake' just because it is a 'snake' - very few species are dangerous to humans in the U.S., and if you aren't sure of the difference, learn to tell.

many years ago when my folks lived in Houston and my dad was sick, I was mowing their yard.
An indigo, probably 5' long darted into the bushes where I was working. It was followed by a half dozen folks armed with hoes. I told them it went around the back of the next house toward the woods.
Thinking to myself, "what would you rather have, the indigo or the 100 baby rattlers it will eat over the next year.

[AJMD429]

I guess if you just HAVE to kill a genuine venomous snake, you could just use this $695 FLASHLIGHT...

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos08/jan/410comp.html

or if you're in the city, this $3,495 BRIEFCASE...

http://www.autoweapons.com/photosn/enigma.html

[Buck Elliott]

Summer of 2008, I killed 19 rattlesnakes either on the property, or on the road to the house, and doubt I made much of a dent in the snake population on the mountain. I won't have them where I have a dog or horses, if I can catch them at it...

For me, a .45 Colt revolver stoked with Speer shot capsules always did the job, handloaded with # 7 1/2 or #9 shot, or a mixture of the two. Shots were taken at 10 ft or less, and I NEVER had one slither off, or require more than one shot, with the exception of a fairly large one that tried going down a rodent hole, just scant feet from the back door of the house... That one took two shots to settle it; the second, after I pried its front end out of the hole with a long stick.

[gak]

Summer of 2008, I killed 19 rattlesnakes either on the property, or on the road to the house, and doubt I made much of a dent in the snake population on the mountain.... .

Man, that's 19 too many!!

[Doc Hudson]

Summer of 2008, I killed 19 rattlesnakes either on the property, or on the road to the house, and doubt I made much of a dent in the snake population on the mountain.... .

Man, that's 19 too many!!

Nope!

If Buck saw and killed 19, that probably means there are a couple of hundred too many.

[gak]

...Meaning 19 too many to have to deal with!! Brrr. You hear of dens with hundreds, maybe thousands and wonder a) why/how so many and b) what do that many find to eat. There are places in southwestern Arizona--as an extreme example of habitat even in the desert southwest--where there's barely a kangaroo rat (size of a small mouse) per acre and hardly a twig of vegetation, yet herpetologists and property owners report about these dens.

[Buck Elliott]

There are dens up the mountain from the property, in some rocks & crevices. Left those alone, but trimmed the few that became a bother...

Rattlers will travel several MILES in a day (night...), hunting food and water.

[Hobie]

With all due respect, Hobie, you must not have a significant other, youngins or your favorite bird dog (etc) with you or nearby during those episodes you described!

In addition, I will add that apparently the Cottonmouths Hobie encountered are not as aggressive as the ones we have in South Alabama. i'd strongly recommend NOT attempting to"flick away" a Po'd South Alabama Cottonmouth. That is a good way to find out how well your snake-bite kit works and find out how good the local Emergency Room is with snakebite.

Yeah, the Florida Water Moccassins are the same. They are apparently born PO'd.

Well, maybe I'm just such a mellow fellow the snakes pick up on that.

Seriously, I have killed snakes to make folks feel better, killed them because there was nothing else to do, killed them accidentally, killed them because THOUGHT I was doing right, killed them to eat, and so forth. I've never left a poisonous snake to be a hazard but never HAD to kill one. That's me. Can't speak for my parents or siblings even on the same property. It just wasn't that big a deal. Some places it is a big deal, a very big deal. I understand that. I just don't see one needing 500 of the snake loads and the trouble to load them as the initial poster described.

I've loaded the Speer capsules and see that as much more time efficient. I think they work better, too. If you only want about 20 rounds and don't have the components you are just as well off buying the loaded CCIs.

[abcollector]

Thought I'd add a little picture to the thread. First one I've seen of the year, back in one of the canyons. I have killed a few but generally I have been known to scoop them up in a shovel and take them elsewhere. I don't particular like them (actually find them fascinating 'cuz they can be dangerous) but I'd rather have them than any type of rodent. One time the barn was overrun with mice and I mean, overrun! Just for fun one time I had about twenty-seven snap traps set around the barn and you couldn't leave them because as soon as it was set, there'd be a mouse in it. Just constant, one after another, but that's another story.

When I was down at Pendleton and we'd be out in the field crawling around during training, we'd bump into rattlers frequently in mid/late spring. We'd have to call an instructor over and they'd take our rifle (no BFA's on them) and dispatch it. 7.62 blanks are no joke!

[LtBlue425]

Growing up on the farm we shot countless rats with 38/357 shotloads using Speer capsules. I'd load them with #8 shot as I was shooting trap at the time. It was very effective and patterning was good. Once I tried #12 shot with the same load and it was not good, just PO'd the rat which turned and came after me. Three more shots put him down. These were normal sized rats too, not super rats.

Later when I got into prairie dog shooting I had a 45LC single action which I made my own shot loads. With no info to go on I went by the S.W.A.G. method. Started out by chamfering the case mouth until it became very sharp. I placed the over-powder/over-shot wadding material (thin corrugated cardboard) on top the case mouth and with a plastic hammer, tapped on the cardboard until it cut through. The cut wad was then pushed into place. #8 shot was filled up to the top. The end was sealed fingernail polish. Powder was a small charge of Unique.

Patterns with this homemade load were ragged and it took several shots to positively put down a big western rattler.

Later factory CCI 45ACP shotloads became available and these worked very well. Couple shots of these will smoke a rattler.

I don't have a phobia about snakes but when you're in the middle of numerous prairie dog holes and you hear that dry buzzing sound with no idea where it's coming from, the pucker factor spikes fast.

[piller]

My Uncle on a farm in the Oklahoma Panhandle had a King Snake which hung around his grain bin. The snake ate mice and rattle snakes. He showed us what it looked like and warned us to leave it alone as it was helping him on the farm. I actually saw it swallowing a rattler just a little smaller than itself one time. Very informative and very cool.

Edit following some research: I did some looking online and found a picture of the snake I remembered seeing. It is a Bull Snake. The description and range of the Bull snake matches. The color pattern is exactly what I saw as a kid.

[RIHMFIRE]

With all due respect, Hobie, you must not have a significant other, youngins or your favorite bird dog (etc) with you or nearby during those episodes you described!

In addition, I will add that apparently the Cottonmouths Hobie encountered are not as aggressive as the ones we have in South Alabama. i'd strongly recommend NOT attempting to"flick away" a Po'd South Alabama Cottonmouth. That is a good way to find out how well your snake-bite kit works and find out how good the local Emergency Room is with snakebite.

Yeah, the Florida Water Moccassins are the same. They are apparently born PO'd.

Aint that the truth....
My neighbor called me over a while back and she said
she had a big rattler in her yard...she said, "bring the biggest gun you have"
Well I grabbed the S&W 629 44 mag....put a couple of CCI snake shot in it...
and went over....When I walked up to this snake....he was already coiled up
and ready to go a few rounds....Put the bead on his head...and let him have it...
at maybe 3 to 4 yards...All it did was tick him off...so I gave him another...
nothin'......the next one was a 240 grain semi wad cutter and it removed
a good portion of his head.....I was not impressed with the CCIs at all...
for big snakes anyway...
he was around 5'-4" long and about 4" in diameter..I wacked the rest of his head
and left him in the lawn .....this guy keep moving for about 20 minutes

[gak]

RIHMFIRE, you must have some tough ones or CCI misloaded those! I don't have any problem dispatching Arizona 5 footer diamondbacks or Mohaves--both permanently po'd types it seems btw--from 6-8 feet out with either .357 or .44 CCI head or "neck" shots, depending on the angle. Usually one shot. I grant you I'd rather it'd be 6' (strictly for assured shot purposes, not my "intimacy comfort level" believe me!). I know all about the 1/2 to 3/4 length striking distance business (two different claims there), but I don't "want" to be any closer than 6 feet to one of these--and that's with a clear, no stumbling blocks path behind me. Too many stories of mates nearby, one I have "first hand" from a buddy who got nailed by a dead Mohave's mate who was, momentarily, invisible to him as he flicked the dead one (by him) out of the way.

[Buck Elliott]

Like I said above --- 10 ft or less! Once you've taken a snake's head off with the shot charge, it doesn't matter how far it can leap... Most of the slithery critters I dispatched that summer were within 3 feet. The one going down the hole was first engaged at about 10 ft, and was hit about 1/3 its length back from the head, which was already in the hole. Said viper was nearly 2 1/2 inches in diameter, and was nearly cut in two with the first shot. and a second load to the head finished it, once I pulled it from the mouse hole....

Before I took the Speer capsules afield, I patterned them from both my Beretta Stampedes, to make sure exactly where they were hitting, and to determine pattern density.

BTW, for shooting snake shot at such close range, sights are next-to useless. You'd better spend some time learning to point shoot, if you don't want to waste shot capsules...

[BwanaDave]

I hate snakes (particularly the two legged democrat type but I am talking about the other slithery type here). I shoot them every time I see one. Save the speech tree huggers you won't change my mind. I use the Speer shot caps with no 9 in my 45 Colt. One time I stepped on a four footer and I was bare footed. I was walking out to do some plinking with my AR. Everything went slo-mo and all I saw was little bits of snake flying all over. upset me off, I had to walk back and reload the 30 round clip.

Bwana

[Tumbleweeds II]

My father used to hunt rattlers in the canyons in the Texas panhandle when he was a kid in the 1930s, just for something to do. There might be one .22 among the small group of boys, loaded with .22 shorts. One day a snake struck at one of them and got its fangs hung in the back pocket of his overalls, where it hung rattling. Too bad there was no timer on the foot race that happened next, as it would have set a record for the canyon dash. Took the group a good while to catch up with the leader, with his rattling tail wagging behind him!

Good friend of mine bought a Judge to pack while clearing an Arkansas hillside near Eureka Springs. I think of that one as a carjacker gun, but it will probably work on legless snakes as well.

[Doc Hudson]

Good friend of mine bought a Judge to pack while clearing an Arkansas hillside near Eureka Springs. I think of that one as a carjacker gun, but it will probably work on legless snakes as well.

That is the only justification I can see for that blasted Judge. IMO it is nothing but a snake gun.