mod 94 cartridge carrier

[two bit okie]

Is it difficult to change the cartridge carrier from the stamped to the cast, and what, if any, is the advantage of one over the other. rifle is a 1969 vintage mod 94 in 30-30.

[J Miller]

Is it difficult to change the cartridge carrier from the stamped to the cast, and what, if any, is the advantage of one over the other. rifle is a 1969 vintage mod 94 in 30-30.

If you can disassemble and reassemble the rifle correctly you can change the carrier. Depending on the fit and wear pattern you might need a new carrier spring. And in years past the parts diagrams showed a different link to be used with the cast carrier.
I've never changed one out so I don't know if that is a must or not.

"IF" it is working properly there is no advantage to the cast carrier. However the stamped ones can be bent and once bent I've read they are not readily straightened.
The stamped ones also produce a different sound that many folks do not like. It does sound tinny and cheep.

I've owned several of the early post-64s with the stamped carrier and all of them have worked just fine. That's the reason I never changed one out.

Joe

[Griff]

The easy way, on a post '64, is to remove the lever/bolt pin set screw (22), drive out the lever/bolt pin (23) from the right side of the receiver, remove the link pin/screw (24) depending on vintage, drop the link (85), lever (63) and locking lug (84) as an assembly. Remove carrier screw (27) and drop the carrier (32) out thru the bottom.

Post '64s with the stamped carrier may be prone to breakage, but... I have two and neither has broken. But, then again, my guns function with a minium of force, they're not allowed to get gummed up or if anything appears sticky, they're diagnosed promptly.

Oh yeah, reassemble in the opposite order. Tip, before installing the carrier, push the bolt forward so that the tab on the top of the carrier is behind the area of the bolt that pulls it up as the bolt slides backward. This is easiest with the receiver upside down. Once that's in place and screwed in, slip the locking lug up into its channel, making sure the lever goes thru the slot in the carrier and into the bottom of the bolt. Then, slip the link into position and install screw/pin. Finally, align the lever with the hole in the receiver and bolt and install the pin. Install screw cover and tighten... your mdl 94 is reassembled.

[jlchucker]

Post '64s with the stamped carrier may be prone to breakage, but... I have two and neither has broken. But, then again, my guns function with a minium of force, they're not allowed to get gummed up or if anything appears sticky, they're diagnosed promptly.

Griff, In my experience those stamped carriers don't break--they bend. And when they bend, the cartridge coming out of the magazine slips below the carrier and the rifle is jammed. I've personally known of four bad experiences with those carriers--and all were later replaced by the cast ones. Those cast ones all have now lasted with considerable use, since the 1970's. My own 30-30 of that vintage came out of the factory with the cast carrier at a time when this part was still being tested--before being released on production rifles. There's probably been over a thousand rounds through that rifle by now, with no trouble. On the other hand, one of my brothers acquired a 1970 30-30 (new) that had a stamped carrier fail after four boxes of factory ammo were fired in it. A warranty gunshop quickly replaced it with a cast one and that rifle has been working fine ever since. The performance of that stamped carrier is not always crappy though. I know of one rifle (probably a 1969 or 70 production model) that's still got the original stamped carrier and it's still working fine after some heavy usage.

[J Miller]

This is just an opinion based on the 40+ years of owning and using Mdl 94 Winchesters, but I'd bet most of the damaged carriers were due to operator error. Short stroking the lever, or stopping in mid stroke, backing up then going down a bit.
These things throw the internal timing of the carrier off and can result in a bent carrier.
Kind of like improper manipulation of an old style SAA will ring the cylinder at the least and can damage the internals too.

JMHO

Joe

[Griff]

I'll have to take a close look at the '67 Trapper & '70 carbine to see if there's a difference 'tween them. I have a few spares; mostly designated for my projects. I can see bending as a result of a couple of issues. Certainly the ones Joe mentions, or OAL extremes, cycling with the muzzle down, etc.

Anyone that's had one bend; did it bend "up", or "down"?

[Pete44ru]

[take a close look at the '67 Trapper & '70 carbine to see if there's a difference 'tween them]

If they're different, someone besides Winchester probably made that so - since AFAIK Winchester didn't change the post-64 stamped carrier/lifter from 1964 until the general upgrades of ca.1971 to the cast carrier/lifter, etc took effect.

.

[Griff]

[take a close look at the '67 Trapper & '70 carbine to see if there's a difference 'tween them]
If they're different, someone besides Winchester probably made that so - since AFAIK Winchester didn't change the post-64 stamped carrier/lifter from 1964 until the general upgrades of ca.1971 to the cast carrier/lifter, etc took effect.
.

Yea, I was thinkin' more along the lines of execution of the design... or any defect that might lend itself to "bending".