Loading the .44WCF

[Griff]

I was discussing loading with a friend this morning... and he mentioned that he has a Uberti 1873 that belonged to his dad, but hasn't been able to shoot it as every time he loads this cartridge he ends up collapsing the cases.

He has several hundred bullets (205 grain jacketed FN) and Starline cases. He's using an old Lee Turret press and Lee dies. Bullets are .427.

I'm of no help, as I don't now, never have, and quite frankly am afraid of the same results he gets, to even try. Plus, the fact is, I don't have a gun in that caliber... I did a search for "loading the .44WCF" and "loading the .44-40" but didn't find anything that gives advice about the technical steps for loading.

I've heard for years, and seen other mention the care that must be made in loading this cartridge, but... couldn't find real specifics. But, since I know several of you .44WCF experts (as far as I'm concerned, if you successfully reloaded 1 .44-40, you're an expert.

So, my friends, I would like to pick the brain trust here for pointers and possible solutions to his loading dilemma.

[Arminius]

Does he seat and crimp in one die at the same time?

Are the cases lubed before sizing?

Hermann

[J Miller]

Sounds like he's forgetting to bell the case mouths to me.

Joe

[Ben_Rumson]

I would tell him is mount the press or position himself so his eye level is such that he can see the bottom of the dies...This way he can see that the case mouths enter the die correctly positioned, so they don’t catch on the edge of the dies... Make sure the case gets flared enough to accept the bullet without catching the edge of the case mouth.. Don't try to rush things...

[jnyork]

All of the above. Might need a little tutoring in reloading techniques.

[Sixgun]

Griff,
Not to condensend on your buddy but if he is inexperienced in loading he may be doing something as simple as using a 44 mag die. We have all seen it with ammo--if it says "30", it must be ok for 30-30, 30-06 etc.

In the "easy" calibers, most of it is all the same. Phone the chap and walk him through -----------------------Sixgun

[Old Time Hunter]

As a recipient of this malady in the past and having corrected it over the years. This is what I have come up with...oh yeah, this is using a Lee Turret too.

1. After sizing your cases, check your case length, the .44-40 has a tendency to grow a bit after firing and even new cases should be checked to establish a base overall case length.

2. If you are using a powder through expanding die, run your ram with shell holder all the way up and then screw your powder charging die down until it stops when touching the top of the shell holder. Back die off about 1/3 of a turn and lock the die down (tighten the retaining nut on the outside of the die against the turret). When you put the shell into the shell holder and run it up to the die push the lever all the way down until it stops, the resistance you feel is the powder through die expanding the neck of the brass. I do this when I load the powder as I use the auto-disk. This is the second most crucial step because if you do not expand the neck (or you could bell it like someone else said) before placing the bullet, you could crush the shell due to the resistance of the bullet because the brass is really, really thin.

3. Set you bullet seating die. Just make sure you back off the thumb screw on top of the die before running your ram all the way up with the shell mounted in the shell holder, then screw down the die itself until it just touches the top of the shell mouth. Lock down the die with the lock nut and give the whole die about a 1/8 of a turn tighter after pulling the lever up. Place a bullet on the mouth of the case and run the ram up again and run the the thumb screw down until you feel it hit the bullet. Back off the ram and keep turning the thumb screw until you reach the proper COL that you want. This should give you a slight crimp...too much crimp on the 44WCF will crush the case...number one cause.

4. good luck!

[Lefty Dude]

If He is using an old die set, two dies he may not be expanding & belling the case. I have an old set of RCBS dies that are for jacketed bullets only. He may need to get a Lyman "M" die.
Remember the 44-40 is classified a Rifle caliber.

Loading 44-40 is not for the novice reloader.

[Griff]

As I understood, he couldn't get a good crimp, and was trying to just get a better crimp.

[the telegraphist]

Have been loading the 44WCF for a long time now, using a Lee 3 die set. Important more than nearly anything else to bell the case mouth well, probably more than for a straight walled case. Seat the bullet to the required depth in all cases requiring loading, then as a separate operation crimp, I do not seat and crimp in one operation with the 44WCF or if it comes to that with the 38WCF and 32WCF. In the 44WCF I use bullets ranging from 427 to 430 for different arms and have very few if any failures such as crushing of the case neck. Just take it slow and easy, enjoy the experience. Correct dies and set-up are paramount. Sure you are working the thin case neck brass harder, but you dont really have an option. Be gentle.

[KirkD]

If it is happening during the crimping stage, then I have two suggestions:

1. adjust the set up to lighten up slightly on the crimp
2. I use a Lee factory crimp die for my 44-40 reloading

Either way, I never collapse 44-40 brass ..... it is a matter of doing what the other gents here have mentioned. I don't even give it a thought anymore. Proper set up and very slight case mouth flaring completely eliminates problems, and then a fellow can just plain enjoy his 44-40 reloading.

[jlchucker]

Sounds like he's forgetting to bell the case mouths to me.

Joe

That was my first thought, too. That, and crimping while seating the bullet, all in one step. Some cartridges just plain need to be crimped in a separate operation. The Lee Factory Crimp die is worth trying in this instance, since the crimping forces come from the sides via collet action, as opposed to a downward force by the upper part of the seating die.

[KirkD]

I can vouch for the Lee Factory Crimp die for the 44-40. Works like a charm.

[Lefty Dude]

Most crumpled case mouths happen when seating & crimping is done with the same die. This can be corrected by the seating depth. I seat & crimp with the same die, with my RCBS cowboy 44-40 dies. Leave room for the crimp in the bullet crimp groove. I adjust the seating die so there is about .005"-.006" between the case mouth and the top of the crimp groove on the bullet. This permits the roll crimp ample room to flow in the bullet crimp groove. If the bullet is seated to deep there is no room for the crimp to go but to buckle the thin case mouth. Always check your COAL to make sure the cartridge cycles & function in the intended Rifle. No two Rifles are the same when loading to the near maximum length.
I also use this same seating die depth clearence when using the LFCD.

If I am loading 240 gr. SWC in 44-40 case's I will do a double crimp. Roll crimp on seating & then use the LFCD. This produces a very firm & tight crimp. I only use this for my competition rounds for CAS/SASS long range use. This does not distort the bullet in any way, just gives a greater bullet pull and aids in accuracy. And I only double crimp 44-40's, because of the thin brass neck.